Just make sure they do the correct time in prison
Noe early out.

If you can't grasp early release, and why it might be an important thing, than you haven't really grasped why people are sent to prison in the first place.

Crime, conviction and sentencing are in media daily. All our lives, every day. It shouldn't be difficult for anybody to understand.

(200 – toot toot)

JacksonPollock – Member

Ultimate deterrent for murder

The problem with 'unlawfull killing' is that it encompasses a vast scope of circumstances. What would you do with the woman that has been systematically abused over may years by her husband, who suddenly 'snaps' and stabs her husband to death? Hanging or somesuch would hardly be a deterrent to her…

exactly my thoughts….

I said yes earlier, But not to all murder, and I know this would be hard to enforce, but people like an abused woman snapping and killing her husband shouldn't be fully punished, as they are unlikely to be as dangerous to the public and a serial killer etc. very hard to enforce, and, of course, each case is different, and never open/closed.

Yes. For heinous crimes that are clearly proven i.e. serial killers/rapists/paedophiles and mass murderers.
Whilst it may not be a deterrent it does prevent reoffending and before people say this isn't a reason, it is if it's you or your family who are raped/wounded/murdered etc by a thought to be but not really reformed or just time served individual.

Society has a duty to seek to rehabilitate and we need to ensure everybody from whatever background has the support and resources to be a decent member of society BUT if they choose not to, and some do, it is society's primary duty to safeguard the law abiding majority.

I always feel that those against the death penalty seem to give less weight to the victims of reoffending and more to the possibility of 'hanging' an innocent person. Limiting the cases meriting the death penalty would reduce the number of miscarriages and completely prevent reoffending by those who gave up their right to fair treatment when they offended. No system is perfect but that's not an argument against one penalty anymore than it is against jailing people for life. I suspect if you were jailed incorrectly for the best 30 yrs of your life, you'd not feel all forgiving when justice was served and you were released.

I know it's not the strongest argument but I suspect the majority of those against would not be happy for the early released to live next door to them. The older I get the more tired I become of soft sentences and sufferable prison time that career criminals and the like see as an occupational hazard. I read about a woman who was surprisingly confronted in her local supermarket by the man who raped her two yrs earlier after he'd been released. I struggle to see the justice in that. Or the point in keeping people alive who have committed such heinous offences that they are considered unfit to ever be released or rehabilitated.
Draconian hang em and flog em rant over.

i started this as a troll believe it or believe it not…………….
but i can't believe how many soft pc correct barstewards there are on here.
how the **** can you neysayers think that convicted paedo's/multi muderers/cannibals/sex murderers should be left to while their days away in a nice comfy cell, getting sky tv pumped in, and in some cases their fave porno mags.

get with the **** programme you soft lefty shytes………… 8)

i started this as a troll believe it or believe it not

I don't believe that at all ton…very unlike you

If they come out and do it again Tar and Feather them
Your all to soft LOL

Yes, By bongo.

ton – Member

you are presuming i agree with the death penalty….actualy i do not.

ton – Member

i started this as a troll believe it or believe it not…………….
but i can't believe how many soft pc correct barstewards there are on here.
how the **** can you neysayers think that convicted paedo's/multi muderers/cannibals/sex murderers should be left to while their days away in a nice comfy cell, getting sky tv pumped in, and in some cases their fave porno mags.

get with the **** programme you soft lefty shytes…………

🙄

deepreddave

So where are you going to draw the line between those who kill and don't get hung and those who do?

Are you prepared to accept that some innocent people will be hung? could be a member of your family that gets stitched up

If you want a death sentence then you have to be able to answer that

Ton – same applies to you – answer those qestions

teej, bluntly…if you mrs goes out tonight and gets raped then murdered by some sicko, what do you want done
you answer that question.

Answer the question ton – I have done my best to answer yours and I'll answer this one.

I would do my damnedest to let the professionals who operate our justice system to dispatch justice dispassionately as I know I would not be in a fit state to do so.

I would hope that my feelings would not overcome my morals and ethics and that I would stick with "do as you would be done by" and that the perpetrator is dealt with fairly by our professional and dispassionate criminal justice system – the same as I hope the criminal justice system would treat me dispassionately and fairly should I transgress.

On this I am a new testament man – "turn the other cheek" not an old testament man " an eye for an eye"

Now you answer

Are you prepared for one of your family to be put to death after a miscarriage of justice? Miscarriages of justice will always happen. It could happen to you or a member of your family.

TJ – I think I acknowledged no system is perfect. Your questions are similar to me asking whether you're prepared to accept a released offender raping or killing a member of your family. The law and emotions don't sit well together.

In answer to yuor questions I'd refer to my post for the line between who to execute and who not "i.e. serial killers/rapists/paedophiles and mass murderers."
I haven't worked out the nuts and bolts but sure lines could be drawn with/without discretionary powers.

I obviously wouldn't be happy if a member of my family was wrongly executed but then I wouldn't be any happier if they were murdered by a released offender. It's a no win though I reckon the latter's more likely than the former if the penalty is applied in only the most serious cases.

There are arguments both ways but the current system's hardly a runaway success is it? It seems there's a serious offence committed by a reoffender every week but no similar rate of stories for life sentenves being quashed.

if it happened to a member off my family i would be devested, but i think in a lot of cases it is open and shut , therefore i would live with it.
and i would say use the death penalty..i think.

TJ – I admire your other cheek mentality but struggle to see why the law abiding majority should bend over backwards for the extreme few who bite the hand that feeds them. Bear in mind that I'm only advocating execution for the most extreme cases so the numbers would be very small.

I don't doubt that greater resources for establishing what would make prisons less bearable for the regular guests is the way to go but the cheek only turns so far surely?

Off out now which is probably best as whilst I appreciate the debate I'm aware this is not a subject on which people are usually minded to change their thinking (me included :|). Tis a wonderfully emotive issue tho'.

I always feel that those against the death penalty seem to give less weight to the victims of reoffending and more to the possibility of 'hanging' an innocent person.

I was instrumental in setting up a victim support unit at a local Magistrates court, when I was doing my degree. We should not and must not create a system based upon the emotional need of some in society for retribution.

Justice does not = revenge and retribution.

JacksonPollock

I think many including me are not talking about revenge at all. It's about total prevention of reoffending and a bit about using the money spent on such people for more deserving causes.

I haven't worked out the nuts and bolts but sure lines could be drawn with/without discretionary powers.

Thats the issue – those lines cannot be drawn. If you want the death penalty you have to accept that innocent people will be hung. It might not be very many – but it will happen.

Unless you can tell me where those lines are?

Do you know BTW that murder is at a 20+ year low in the UK? and murder stats cannot be fudged.

Prisons are horrid places to be – I have been in a couple. Murder always attracts a life sentence. People can be released once the tariff is spent – thats the minimum amount of time they can serve to meet the ends of justice but they remain on parole and subject to recall at any time for the rest of their lives, they have to show remorse and accept their guilt and have to be assessed as no danger.

Our current longest serving lifer is now into IIRC his 37th year of incarceration

Yes for rapists and murderers

teej, how many serve a sentance, get out and murder again…quite a few.

They can be drawn i.e. death sentence for multiple murderers or rapists/paedophiles with > 10 victims etc. Discretionary powers to judge/jury for lesser and yet still extreme cases such as 5 to 10 victims depending on psychological reports etc. the current system isn't perfect so don't argue against the death penalty because it isn't. You focus on the admininstration of it and the errors but overlook the lives saved or those not ruined.

If the murder rate is going down then great though I'm all too aware that what you choose to count and how you choose to count it has a bit of an impact on stats!

There are 60 million people here give or take a few and around 800 murders each year.
That's 800 murderers.

Let's say half those were hung.

That's four hundred people you'd trust the British legal system to murder on your behalf each year.

Good work fella.

so death penalty for those that have been convicted, served their time, then go on to kill again.

The Daily Mail would have you believe this is a regular occurrence, in reality it is extremely rare. Can you give any examples of where this has happened?

Generally murderers are "broken" in some way I dont reckon you can fix them but killing them is just FU.

ton – Member

teej, how many serve a sentance, get out and murder again…quite a few
I know of none. Lets have some evidence to back your assertion.

and please answer the question

Now you answer

Are you prepared for one of your family to be put to death after a miscarriage of justice? Miscarriages of justice will always happen. It could happen to you or a member of your family.

This thread is a perfect example of the muddy thinking and knee-jerk sadism often shown by those in favour of capital punishment. Some want it for murder, or for only certain types of murder, some for paedophiles, some for rape. None of them can define where the "line" is and would be happy to let "someone else" define that.

I mean – capital punishment for rape? Really? In a spirit of fair play, how about capital punishment also for those who accuse others of rape when those alleged rapists are found not guilty? That should even things up a bit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1159477/Murders-rapes–shocking-crimes-65-killers-released-Labour-strike-again.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540632/Convicted-murderers-who-were-set-free-to-kill.html

teej, i answered you…yes i would.

druidh
answer my question please.

How about Colin Stagg

Stitched up like a kipper for a murder he did not commit. Clearly innocent as Robert Napper has now been convicted for it.
A brutal crime. He would surely have fitted your criteria for being hung.

So Ton, if you read that muddy and confusing Mail article carefully, 3 murders by released, convicted murders over a period of 6 years

Quite a few indeed.

27 Years

teej, shit happens mate..
shall i reel off my list of mass murderers again…
all those poor relative left, and peter, and rose and dennis and donald…………..all tucked up in their nice cosy paid for by us cells…
shame on you..

I'm not prepared to pull the lever myself, can't ask someone else to do it for me.

And as previously mentioned Stefan Kisko. An absolutely tragic case.

He was convicted of raping and murdering 11 yr old Lesely Molseed. Ons small problem… he did not, and could not have done it.

Do you think mass murderers would be deterred by a death sentence?

JacksonPollock
i agree mate..terrible.
how many people did shipman do in tho??

Do you think mass murderers would be deterred by a death sentence?

no mate, but why should we pay to keep them..

Why should we pay? The keep Esselgruntlfuttock in a job 🙂

my cousin is a prison warder at monster mansion…
he looks after some nice residents..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/05/31/baby-p-killer-s-cushy-cell-inside-monster-mansion-115875-21402275/

Shoot the Bastards ton
Trouble is they need to be over 100% proved to kill someone
but even last year the Police got caught out trying to convict
an inocent man for a crime he had not done.
what the Police had done was to finger print the guy and found
that a small part of his finger print resembled the whole finger
print taken fron the scene, then the Police enlarged a small part of the guys finger print to match the suspects finger print.
This even went to Crown court on the strength of the made up finger print.

Yeehaa! Thanks skidartist! At the moment though, I don't work with moiderers ex or otherwise, & as for and use their organs for donation and make some use out of them you wouldn't want them, even on your deathbed.

this bloke is one of the nice residents too.

should we keep him locked up till he dies or should we end it for him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maudsley