Death on Winnats Pass yesterday

I’ve absolutely no idea what I’d do

Brakeless BMXers get through a pair of shoes a week by sticking one foot on the rear tyre above the seatstays. I’m not condoning this for a second, but this came in handy for me at Kielder a few years ago when the pads went (which of course was gradual though still meant having no brakes for miles).

Horrible way to go. My thoughts go out to her family.

I’m wondering if it was me what I would do to deal with a brake failure. I think unclip, push the bike forward and try to barrel role like the motogp guys would be the only option.

I don’t think rational thought comes into it at that speed and with that sudden “oh shit” moment. Couple that with a time gap of split seconds to impact and there’s no chance. RIP. 🙁

I agree about Winnat’s, it’s a terrifying descent – I avoid it if at all possible.

RIP

Massive tragedy

Ive never had both brakes fail on the road though
Deeply unfortunate

I wonder how this happened?
(If indeed it was the case)

RIP and I am never going to ride down Winnats now. I’ll ride up it but **** that. Its just too steep/long. Call it mincing but hey.

Not mincing at all, it’a lethal descent. It’s so steep you have to keep the brakes on all the way down, it has loose sheep, loads of cars coming the other way in the middle of the road, loose rock/gravel, and to top it off a choke point and cattle grid bottom. It’s pretty sh*t going up too. Far better to go down/up the road from Mam Tor to Edale.

0.5lb maybe.

I certainly feel more comfortable with a front disc on the roady though on steeeeeep stuff.

Any recommendations for carbon-good priced ones?

Planet X XLS is 21lb

Planet carbon Pro is 18lb

How awful.

I flew down there yesterday afternoon on the road bike. I even stopped just after the cattle grid because I could hear the front break starting to struggle.

I don’t want to speculate on this case but the combination of steep gradient, uphill traffic and sudden narrowing of the road at the cattle grid is dangerous.

My deepest sympathy to anyone affected.

I seem to remember once many years ago having to put a foot on the front wheel to brake when I’d lost braking – possibly due to the conditions, icy rims perhaps rather than a failure. I crashed whilst actually trying to do it. However I was simply mincing down some muddy chossy trail rather than bombing along at 45mph.

Horrible accident and of course my sympathies to her and her family.

On really steep roads like this I always take it easy and ride the brakes so if something goes pop I have time to react. I’ll only go for it on long open descents where I can see what’s going on. Even then I shit myself at the thought of my carbon frame snapping or someone pulling out. When I was young it just never occurred to me.

I actually have experience of my brakes failing on a steepish tarmac descent at speed (though not as steep as Winnats and probably nowhere near as fast as she was going) – does that make me overqualified to comment? Hope XC4 closed disc brakes, the pads had worn and I’d not screwed in the adjusters (I suspect I might not have had enough adjustment left anyway). I bailed off the road onto the grass verge and somehow managed not to do any major damage as I went OTB and down a ditch. Though to be honest I’m not sure if there was any conscious plan or it was just what happened as I overcooked a corner – I was lucky. Really no time to think in such a situation – so I’m not sure you’d have the presence of mind to lay the bike down, though I reckon the best option on Winnats would also be to bail onto the grass at the sides.

Planet X XLS is 21lb

Planet carbon Pro is 18lb

Is that with equivalent groupsets (except the brakes, obviously)? That weight difference surprises me. Anyway, I’d wager there’s a more useless 3lbs on your belly that you could lose 😉

though I reckon the best option on Winnats would also be to bail onto the grass at the sides.

which has fairish-sized large rocks spaced out in parts next to the kerb.

“Brakes failed” I suspect is a lazy media shorthand for poor performing brakes applied too late (as in too late considering how ineffective they are). It was used in the media initially for a young lad I used to teach who died a couple of years ago. His bike turned out to have been badly adjusted with worn brakes of poor quality so he wasn’t able to stop when he needed to in a hurry. Nothing ‘failed’ on the day – they were just too crap for the situation. His parents still talk about them failing despite inquest verdict – I think it maybe easier for them to live with.

It is so easy to pick up too much speed on those sort of descents – scary. I remember seeing the state of another rider after he hit a dry stone wall coming down Kirkstone in the Whitton a few years ago. You could see how it could get fatal very easily.

Massive sympathies.

caspian – Member

Brakeless BMXers get through a pair of shoes a week by sticking one foot on the rear tyre above the seatstays.

I’ve done that in the past, for jollies, on a MTB, on flat grass.
Doing 45mph on a road bike in a panic situation?
Not a chance.

Sad news. 🙁

Am I the only one thinking that the “What if” discussions are a bit distasteful?

RIP, awful thing to happen.

Actually come to think of it I’m getting confused and I think it might have been the Formula open system I replaced those with – anyway still worn pads and lack of adjustment in the brakes.

which has fairish-sized large rocks spaced out in parts next to the kerb.
[/quote]

I didn’t say it was a good option, just the best of those available – and to be fair it doesn’t look that horrendous an idea on Streetview, though it does of course depend on how much time you have. As I mentioned I’m not convinced my off-road excursion was a choice.

Agree with Warton – people appear to be more interested in bike failure and what they would do not do, which would be an interesting topic elsewhere.

RIP

I ride Phil & Friends (now the Phil Liggett Challenge) most years so have only ridden up Winnats Pass. My blood ran cold when I read this thread imagining what events must have taken place. With the amount of traffic, pedestrians and sheep in that area I can’t imagine why anyone would give it large down there.

One year I did P&F and broke a spoke in the back wheel after about 20 miles so had to release that brake off. It wasn’t until I hit about 48 mph descending Holme Moss that the thought popped into my head “Hold on, I’ve only got one brake here!” (not to mention the buckled wheel).

Where else should we discuss this? Do we have to try and completely avoid discussing this particular incident when doing so?

I don’t see anything particularly distasteful on this thread – on the contrary, surely it’s a good thing if people learn something.

tragic incidents like this create awareness for others – I think respectful discussions that help others in similar situations have a place alongside expressions of grief.

Warton why? Its good to talk/discuss and something of benefit may come out of the debate.

maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed a little insensitive to me…

Very very sad news indeed.

I’ve bailed out after a long fast decent on my old Orca, it’s not nice and it’s certainly not the easiest option either when your brain is in panic mode.

Such sad news.

Such sad news.

I have only ridden up Winnats Pass and even then a women stalled her car in front of me and she ended up with the car across the narrow road. It occurred to me then what would happen if a cyclist was speeding down, could they have avoided a collision in time.

Terrible. I was up there a few weeks ago on the way back home from my Dads in Manchester. We thought we would drive up to the back of the old broken Chapel road take some pics and then head down Winnats with the kids. Its a 20% incline. Crazy. Such a tragically sad story my thoughts are with her family.

The ‘what ifs’ are a bit distasteful, yes. But it is quite a natural thing for people to try to rationalise tragic things like this, it is just that the forum on an internet site is probably not the place to speculate. Especially not so soon afterwards.

As I said before, it is not difficult to imagine the sheer terror of that situation and it makes my blood run cold thinking about it. I think we should leave it at that and give up the ’24 hour rolling news / speculation’ approach.

RIP.

Just been down, sobering to see a hole in the right side of the wall adorned with flowers. Very steep coming down

Rip and v sad news.

It is so easy to pick up too much speed on those sort of descents – scary. I remember seeing the state of another rider after he hit a dry stone wall coming down Kirkstone in the Whitton a few years ago. You could see how it could get fatal very easily.

I don’t see anything disrespectful in learning lessons and even what ifs? I had a very hairy moment with a stationary car during the Helvellyn tri a few years ago near bottom of Kirkstone. We can count our blessings while remembering this can be a dangerous pastime.

I don’t see anything disrespectful in learning lessons and even what ifs?

No-one’s saying that it shouldn’t be discussed, but maybe in a different thread? It’s a bit like not announcing your pregnancy shortly after learning of a friends miscarriage. Tact, time & place.

My condolences to the family and friends of the unfortunate rider, I’m truly sorry for your loss.