Dealing with racism

I’m sure the British Army were no angels, but there’s just absolutely no comparison with the attrocities carried out by the Japanese.

As for how native populations were treated, do phrases such as “the rape of Nanking” or “Korean comfort women” ring any bells? Are you seriously saying that Britain commited acts on a par with those? If so, please point me in the direction of them so I can read about them.

This has gone on for 3 pages: RealMan what are you going to do?

It sounds like a complex area to get into discussing with her and I can see why it may not emerge much. Is her view linked to loss in the family based on this east/west conflict? That’ll be a fairly solid start for judgemental thinking. Unfortunately she has a skewed view of her country, maybe you can encourage her to learn more about history; which may in turn expose the history of the conflict in it’s true detail?

Depends on the relationship you have.

You do know that you sound like a child CharlieMungus, with your edited versions of what people have said ….. don’t you ?

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And actually kennyp’s comment : “I’d love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the Japanese” is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Those that did survive the war after been held captive by the Japanese, nearly all died rather young.

I can’t be bothered arguing with someone who claims that the Japanese were no more brutal than the British btw.

It’s probably worth adding that there were and are lots of nice Japanese people too.

At this point Deadly, it’s probably best to focus on the fact that the Japanese Imperial army used civilians for bayonet practice, executed Chinese POWs by blowing them up with landmines, dousing them with petrol, setting them on fire, etc, etc, and generally behaving even worst than the Nazis, as some people appear to be ignorant of the facts. Unless of course, they believe the British also did those things.

is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese

There are still a few. One lives near some friends of ours in Surrey. I’m sure there must be others too.

I can’t be bothered arguing with someone who claims that the Japanese were no more brutal than the British btw.

I agree, there is little point in arguing here. I am well aware of the atrocities of some of the Japanese as these are well publicised. Because the winners write the history most people, such as yourself are not aware of the the British atrocities. Nevertheless, you only need to talk to the people who were there especially in the post war years to know that the British executed and brutalised whole communities in their war on communism in SE Asia. I understand that you think I am wrong in making the comparisons, but that’s part of the problem. The foul behaviour of the British in SE Asia is one of those episodes of history that has been swept under the carpet. My family lived through it, they were not unusual, there is a large folk memory of what the British did.

i have a friend who is racist against south africans and when pressed on the subject he claims its that he cant stand their history of racism – the mind boggles!!
ernie-lynch – dresden.

Bad Nenndorf

Does it not make you wonder that the perpetrators of the great atrocities happen to be the 2 losing nations of the 2nd world war? and only them?

And actually kennyp’s comment : “I’d love to see you go to some of the old men who suffered at the hands of the Japanese” is somewhat flawed in that there will be almost certainly no one alive today, who suffered at the hands of the Japanese. Those that did survive the war after been held captive by the Japanese, nearly all died rather young.

Almost certainly… He could have a chat to my uncle.

I am well aware of the atrocities of some of the Japanese as these are well publicised. Because the winners write the history most people, such as yourself are not aware of the the British atrocities.

Actually I would say the reverse. Japanese atrocities are not well publicised here in the UK, compared to Nazi atrocities, despite the fact that they were in fact worst, partly at the insistence of the United states.

Winners might well write history, but the Philippines, Singapore, China, etc, are all today independent countries who are free to publicise all details of ‘British atrocities’. Yet despite still strong anti-Japanese feelings because of Japanese Imperialism, to the point that there are still, 70 years later, anti-Japanese public demonstrations, there appears to be no comparable anti-British feelings.

And I am fully aware of the role of British, French, and American Imperialism, in SE Asia. It does not however, give me a right to lie and claim that Japanese Imperialism was no worst.

BTW, I can’t be arsed to engage in a detailed argument with you, but I reserve the right to comment when you post what imo, is offensive claims that Japanese behaviour in the 1940s was no worst than British behaviour. In the same way that I would challenge a Nazi sympathiser who attempted to deny the Holocaust, or play down the level of Nazi atrocities.

as above.

but why do you put ‘British atrocities’ in inverted commas? Do you doubt they were atrocities? If you are fully aware of them, please detail a few of them here. for the benefit of all.

there appears to be no comparable anti-British feelings.

yes, they are very popular all over the world

The inverted commas is to emphasis ‘British atrocities’ as opposed to ‘Japanese atrocities’. The point is being, that these countries can freely publicise all details of ‘British’ atrocities.

Note that I didn’t use ‘quotation marks’ which might have suggested I doubted that Britain could have ever committed any ‘atrocities’.

Any other questions concerning my ‘punctuation’ ?

BTW on another thread recently, I wrote a big long spiel about the American ‘atrocity’ which was the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam. Awareness of this appalling atrocity, doesn’t make me come to the conclusion that Japanese Imperialism was no worst than American Imperialism. It was.

And in reference to jonah tonto’s comment, whilst Dresden might well represent a totally unjustified and senseless killing of civilians, it does not in anyway compare with the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Nor can it lead us to the conclusion that the Nazis were no worst than the Allies. They were.

Still waiting for your detailed knowledge of British atrocities in SE Asia.

As an aside, by no means do I wish to undermine the suffering of folks’ grandfathers etcdat the hands of the Japanese. Truly.
Though i do find it strange that no-ones grandfather was ever one of the British soldiers who burned raped and murdered their way through SE Asia immediately post-war and for many years after. I don’t deny the suffering of your grandfathers, but your lack of recognition of what the British did, denies the suffering of my grandparents and their friends. I really don’t want to offend anyone on this sensitive subject, but i only ask for the same recognition which you have.

Of course we still haven’t discussed the 1 million Irish the British let die a hundred years earlier as part of that imperial campaign.

Any other questions concerning my ‘punctuation’ ?

nope, but on grammar, why do you keep using ‘worst’ instead of ‘worse’?

on grammar, why do you keep using ‘worst’ instead of ‘worse’?

That’s simply down to ‘poor’ grammar.

Any other questions ?

‘Presentation’ maybe ?

War never changes.

In fact it is one of the few things mankind has proven itself to be extremely good at.

That and long winded forum arguments…

This has gone on for 3 pages: RealMan what are you going to do?

Still not sure. I haven’t discussed it with her yet as it hasn’t come up again, and I’m hesitant to start an argument with a woman (common sense I think). I think I will have to man up and do it though, especially if she mentions it. Its hard because I think its related to Kurds and such, and geography and history are far from my strong points. It seems she’s into Turkish politics quite a lot, sounds like they get drilled it from school or something. All very complex.

Though I guess its simple really.

That’s simply down to ‘poor’ grammar.

Any other questions ?

‘Presentation’ maybe ?

nope, you can go ahead with the details of the British atrocities in South East Asia, of which you are fully aware.

War never changes.

Pretty sure it does.

you can go ahead with the details of the British atrocities in South East Asia, of which you are fully aware.

I can’t see anywhere, where I have mentioned anything about British atrocities in South East Asia, apart from the fact that the Philippines, Singapore, China, etc, are free to publicise details of any.

What are you talking about ?

So, this thread has gone from a question about how to deal with the politics of a sensitive, personal issue of racist attitudes to an argument about which race committed the greater atrocities.
How does this help anyone come to an understanding of dealing with prejudice? In that respect, bad is bad and that is all we need to know to live a more tolerant and accepting existence now.

edit – Ha. Realman. Thread reclaim.

I feel the need to enter yet another thread to ask that we leave the Irish out of this particular argument. Yes, the decimation of the population was horrendous, but it wasn’t committed as part of a systematic attempt to exterminate a race or through atrocities committed by an army. The fact that the famine continued was largely down to ignorance, politics and bad communication. If the public had realised what was happening, they wouldn’t have stood for it. (EDIT: This is purely speculation on my part because though there were some odious politicians involved, the average British person was a decent sort). Yes, people have blood on their hands over it, but it’s a different discussion IMO.

Now Cromwell on the other hand… *

* Joke 🙂

over 250,000 civilian refugees burned bodies were recovered from dresden. it is estimated that numbers of civilian dead were much higher as no bodies could be found in the city centre where temps were recorded at 1600 C. this was not a military target and it was known that the city was a refugee camp full of women and children when the orders to create a firestorm were given. Churchill had asked for “suggestions how to blaze 600.000 refugees”. He wasn’t interested how to target military installations 60 miles outside of Dresden.
this does compare with the genocide mate cos it is genocide

And I am fully aware of the role of British, French, and American Imperialism, in SE Asia. It does not however, give me a right to lie and claim that Japanese Imperialism was no worst.

It is implicit in this. unless of course you claim there weren’t any.

So, this thread has gone from a question about how to deal with the politics of a sensitive, personal issue of racist attitudes to an argument about which race committed the greater atrocities.

And not forgetting punctuation and grammar 💡