Michael Gove on planning reform

Who is this goon? Why is an Education Minister spouting on about planning? Quoted in The Daily Mailograph thus:

“We cannot think of our built environment without thinking of beauty. Many of the most beautiful vistas in the United Kingdom are beautiful because of building. Whether it’s Chatsworth or the Nash terraces of Regent’s Park, Edinburgh’s New Town or Salisbury Cathedral, the man-made environment is as capable of inspiring awe as anything in nature.

“So when we think of new building we should not think only of losing some undeveloped land – we should also think of the potential to create something of grace and beauty, to ravish the eye and lift up the soul.”

Now, he might have a [vague] point about good architecture – but does he really think this is what property developers are itching to put up on greenbelt land? When was the last time you looked at an over-priced & identikit housing development, and thought to yourself, “why, how that evokes the glorious spires of our great cathedrals”?

I want to slap his silly face.

This is the man who has told school builders to reduce the size of rooms, slashed budgets for architects, asking for the implementation of ‘modular’ schools and, more bizzarely, banned the use of curved surfaces

The bloke is a complete twonk! A pompous arse who seems to be labouring under the misapprehension that every person in the country awakes every morning and wonders what Michael Goves opinion is on the matters of the day

They should lock the **** in a box!

This is the man who has told school builders to reduce the size of rooms, slashed budgets for architects, asking for the implementation of ‘modular’ schools and, more bizzarely, banned the use of curved surfaces

And if you were working to a budget you’d do something different?

The bloke is a complete twonk!

Yeah, I’ll give you that one.

Every political party needs a goon capable of stating things, no matter how illogical or lacking in evidence, as absolute truth without the slightest twinge of doubt or self-reflection. It’s what’s interesting about Cameron, you can see in his eyes that he doesn’t believe some of the nonsense he later u-turns on, but Gove… Gove is a machine. If you paid him Gove would tell people, with total conviction, that jumping off multistorey car parks is good for your health.

It was unclear why Mr Gove chose to enter the highly-charged debate over planning reforms.

LOL. Cuz he likes gettin up in the mix innit?

We could accommodate the occasional Saruman-style clearance of the countryside, to be fair. There is a pressing need to build houses, after all. A big Aldi can be cathedralic in its own way.

What I’d do isn’t really the point. His justification for that was some twoddle about the physical environment of being of no importance to children learning

So probably not to make statements shortly afterwards praising the value of the quality of the majestic architecture bequeathed to the nation by the like of Barrets. And banging on about its supposed benefits

So, like I said…. The bloke is a complete twonk!

A big Aldi can be cathedralic in its own way

My personal place of worship is the Bedminster Asda in Bristol.

It’s like the Mecca of supermarkets.

He is a goon, but a dangerous goon given the job he has and the connections he has…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/26/schools-crusade-gove-murdoch

What I’d do isn’t really the point. His justification for that was some twoddle about the physical environment of being of no importance to children learning

Somehow I managed to survive being educated in pre-fab post-ww1 temporary buildings laden with asbestos, and get more qualifications than I can remember. So, yes, it’s irrelevant.

it’s irrelevant

I love your, uhh, data. But, tbh, it’s like something out of the “Four Yorkshiremen” sketch – when I were a lad, etc.

I went to a big rural comprehensive, with excellent facilities, surrounded by extensive playing fields. It got me to a good university. I’d say the immediate learning environment played a big part in that.

He really makes me angry!!!

I’m Head of Maths in a school and I can’t believe how niave he is about what really works to benefit children.

The worst thing he has come up with to-date, and is trying hard to push through is to remove structure and introduce performance related pay. It smacks of someone who has no clue about how to help a school full of pupils.

We strategically move pupils to support each other as a Maths team with behaviour and other areas in mind. There’s often a member of staff who takes one for the team (groups of pupils who can barely sit still) so that all of our team can benefit and so that other pupils learning environments are protected and we can get the best results for all the pupils.

If each member of staff starts to become motivated to only get the best out of their groups then shared planning/resources and all the colaberative elements that make us successful will then start to break down.

We all lose out, but more worryingly all the pupils start to lose out.

What an absolute moron!

Did you know that a large proportion of his qouted statistics come from a UK TV Gold surveys?

…. and for anyone who asks why are you on a forum when you should be marking or teaching?… I’ve given my group a mock exam which they are sitting right now and I’m up to date with all my marking due to working till 11pm last night…. just for the record 🙂

Rant over.

I went to a big rural comprehensive, with excellent facilities, surrounded by extensive playing fields. It got me to a good university.
I’d say the immediate learning environment played a big part in that.

So crappy old buildings, posh new ones. Same result?

about what really works

As with most Government ministers, if they actually had to do the job themselves, they would probably last less than 5 minutes.

Personally, I’d like to see Hunt work a nightshift on an understaffed elderly care ward. 😈

So crappy old buildings, posh new ones. Same result?

No. If you’re of the opinion that you could have got to Oxbridge having been educated in a shoebox made from asbestos, then I’m not going to waste time arguing with you. But it’s ridiculous to pretend that the immediate environment doesn’t have some bearing upon provision.

The environment has a massive impact on learning.

You can instantly see a difference in the way a group of pupils behave if you put them in a uniform, in a nice light open classroom. They are drastically worse if they are in a cramped graffitied environment with wobbly chairs and desks that are too small wearing polo shirts and jumpers.

He has absolutely no clue whatsoever.

5thElefant – Member

And if you were working to a budget you’d do something different?

I might, I might not. But if in my actual public job I’d made a point of hammering architectural standards, I wouldn’t then eulogise on the importance of architecture outwith my job.

On the plus side he’s as qualified to speak on this subject as he is on schooling.

chilled76 – Member

The environment has a massive impact on learning.

You can instantly see a difference in the way a group of pupils behave if you put them in a uniform, in a nice light open classroom. They are drastically worse if they are in a cramped graffitied environment with wobbly chairs and desks that are too small wearing polo shirts and jumpers.Our kid’s primary school uniform is polo shirts and jumpers. Do I need to say something? Looks alright tbh.

Not at a primary school no. For the majority of pupils that age that is the norm.

But when you’ve got 6ft tall 16 year olds it can make a big difference. I can’t tell you why, a psychologist might be able to.

I’ve just witnessed the difference first hand in practice post change from one uniform to the other.

Edit, thinking about it, it might be something to do with creating a professional feeling environment, basically that you put on your uniform and go off to school to work. That would also explain why primary kids don’t need the same social clothing boundary of shirts and ties, the polo shirts and jumpers to them will feel like they are in their school/work clothes.

I dont normally post on political stuff but this guy is a pillock, he goes on about nimbys etc being the problem but its sinmply not the case. Where i live we are pretty much under seige from developers trying to build on green belt, now i know that it can be seen as nimbyism but its simply not the case. taylor wimpy want to build 90 houses in the village average price? near enough £300,000! WTF! who does that serve? certainly not the people struggling to get a house!. We have a small village school that is always oversubscibed and the access to the site would be a joke. on top of that there has already been consent to Bloor homes for 30 house (same sort of cost) and one or two small (around 10 homes) in or near the village. This is not an isolated case as near enough all the surrounding villages are having the same so the long term sustainabilty has to be questioned. I’ve no issue with small developments on green belt which serve the whole community (sensible range of property) but this has nothing to do with housing and everything to do with money. If you want a house round here at the moment then you better be in the £100k income bracket which is madness. To be honest where i live there is not a lot of local work so most people commute which in turn means that lower paid jobs are less viable so people on lower income are not likely to want to live here anyway so basically they are not being served in terms of housing either way. Housing near centres of work would be far more vaulable but of course ther is less margin in low cost housing so why bother. It makes me angry for some of my family who will never (if they choose) own thier own home or even be able to choose where they live. I count myself luck to have bought a house before the boom and rode the wave but if i hear one more parent inthe playground banging on about how much they have “made” on thier house i’m going to slap them YOU DID NOWT BUT BE LUCKY. Even though i would rather there wasn’t a price adjustment down i’d accept and live with it as i dont feel i have some right to the equity anyway. sorry incoherent rant dunno what i mean but i stand by the gove is a pillock statement…. 🙂

Northwind

On the plus side he’s as qualified to speak on this subject as he is on schooling

true and i like to hear Gove speak as he does a good job of presenting Tory policy – no ifs or buts this is what it is – no focus group stuff or bending to social conscious – bit like Tebbit in olden days

Point of grammatical order here re the OP.

It is never correct to use the word “planning” in the same sentence as the name Michael Gove, unless proceeded with the words “lack of”.

Thank you.

here we go

http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/michael-gove-to-teach-for-a-term

He is odious but do any other ministers have actual hand on experience of their brief? Has IDS lived on benefits? Ha Hunt worked in Healthcare?
Given all his reforms I would have thought secondary made more sense ..perhaps he could have had done it with some troops to see how well they coped.

If only there was some you tube footage of Gove falling on his arse…

I think youll find IDS has ‘lived on the breadline’ as he was made redundant once

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22006841

He was engaged to Elizabeth “Betsy” Fremantle, daughter of the 5th Baron Cottesloe at the time however

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Duncan_Smith

Giggles at the notion of IDS living on the “breadline”, i have to giggle otherwise my true reaction would get another banning for typing what i actually think of these tory ****…….Fnarr-Fnarr – guffaw, good show old boy, demonstrate to these serfs that it is possible to live on a pittance what-not, snort!

Hmm, it appears **** is a banned word as well?

For **** consider twunt but spelt differently, how long before we get a naughty step on here?

Gove visited the school my mum teaches at before the election. She reckoned he struggled to control a Q&A with sixth formers, so it would be hilarious to see him try to teach.

Funny, you throw all the abuse at Gove for knowing nothing about schools or education…

Because guess which government department is responsible for adoption services and policy?

Now, what was that about him knowing nothing about his brief? 😉

On the original story (sorry I missed it first time), actually I agree with him. If a developer puts in an application for permission to build another Chatsworth or Salisbury Cathedral on green belt land then nimbys shouldn’t be allowed to stand in the way. That is what he’s talking about isn’t it? I mean he couldn’t possibly be referring to a crammed in lego housing estate when saying “we should also think of the potential to create something of grace and beauty, to ravish the eye and lift up the soul”.

fair point hes got a very good perspective on adoption

……….which is why hes being criticised for dismantling education rather than adoption

Is he?

Just the other day I heard Diane Abbot and David Blunkett praising him…

Because guess which government department is responsible for adoption services and policy?

Now, what was that about him knowing nothing about his brief?

In that case, as he went to school , he is equally qualified to dictate policy in that area.

given that many on here think that having change in their pocket makes them qualified to wax lyrical on economic theory, I dont see why not? 😉

As I have an A level you cannot possibly mean me then 😉

Junkyard, saying the only people you can listen to about teaching is teachers, is like saying the only people you can listen to about newspaper regulation are journalists!

Well if Gove kept his opinions on education, for example, restricted to a mountain bike forum, I’m sure most people would be absolutely fine with that.