Darker side – Sonder Camino versus Colibri

I’ve getting a bit of an itch for a drop bar road bike that capable of rougher roads and gravel type tracks (not offroad).

Looking at getting it through the Halfords Cycle2Work scheme and am leaning towards Sonder who have had served me well in C2W in the past and make bikes that fit the bill.

I’m a little torn between whether to go for more of a road bike with a Colibri or lean more into gravel with the Camino (both in the Al flavour).

Anyone got any practical experience of both … or particularly the Colibri when the surface underneath the wheels isn’t pure tarmac?

Splashed out on the Ti Colibri as my only “road” bike – I use it for Audaxes and other road rides and it copes admirably.

It’s geometry is not a million miles off my “gravel” bike and it copes with the odd bit of sustrans trail without any drama ( I run 32mm tyres year round).

how does the Sedona Ti fit in (gravel race bike)

I did have a chat with the guys in store about this. I remain undecided and never pulled the trigger.

I want a road bike primarily. I would like it to take fat tyres and guards. But I’d like to be able to do easy off road – like the gravel paths you find on national cycle networks.  I want road ish geometry. I do all my gravel on a CX bike right now which is not very far off road geometry. I’m more at the racing end than the bikepacking end.

The Colibri would probably manage this but the guards limit the tyre size.

The Sedona is probably spot on except it would be a £££ for a custom build with 105. Never decided if I could get on with 2x GRX and the lower gears (ride a semi compact on the road normally).  I couldn’t get my head round the Camino geometry. It suggests I want a large but the medium is bigger than most of my bikes. CX and Road I aim for a 550 ETT with 100-110mm stem and that normally works. They didn’t have any in stock to sit on but the medium Sedona did feel right.

I think you’d want a Colibri or Sedona in my view. The Camino is vey much relaxed geometry of offroad. The other two are closer to road bikes.

I couldn’t get my head round the Camino geometry. It suggests I want a large but the medium is bigger than most of my bikes.

Me too. I tested a large – too big, and a medium…guess what…too small <laughing emoji>

I’m on my second camino Ti, (first GRX 1×11 V2.1) and now the latest sram force. it definately feels faster, but still very much relaxed , i’m 5ft11 medium is perfect, and as per shop recommendation. many go large frame

definately a marmite bike, loved by the MTB’ers , not sure by the Road rider

Camino has moved away in recent versions from what you are looking for in my opinion, it’s more on the mountain bike side than the road side. By way of example I believe the wheelbase on the latest Camino Al in medium is bigger than the previous XL.

Colibri sounds more like what you are after

Not ridden a Colibri however I do have a Camino and the above is true – the Camino is very much at the ‘its a mountain bike with curly bars’ end of the spectrum.

Gear ratios not withstanding, I dont think its any faster or more suited to the road than my carbon Scott Scale XC race bike – and thus, it doesnt really get used much these days.

Mate of mine tested both recently and plumped for the Colibri. He wanted it for similar stuff to you.

Saying that, can’t you just go test them both? They run a demo fleet out of my local Alpkit.

How about a Richey Montebello. If i did not have a Richey Outback and a Lynskey Sportif I would have one tomorrow. If the Outback is anything to go by I doubt you will a more comfortable bike. 40mm tyres or 36mm. max with mudguards.

How limited a tyre width are we talking?

My Merlin ran 36mm conti (so in reality about 33mm!) under guards and I took that everywhere. Some caution / be a tad more careful in real off-road things, but was fast enough on road and a giggle in a silly way off road.

It commuted, toured, gravelled, Red Route’d and generally did everything.

(I got rid because the geometry was odd, so very uncomfy on long rides. Best thing I did was accept a slower speed for fatter tyres and really nice geometry on the Vagabond I replaced it with)

Keltie Bridge, Braco, Glen Artney Gravel by Matt[/url], on Flickr

Sherrifmuir Cycle by Matt[/url], on Flickr

Strathyre, Balqhidder and Inverlochlarig by Matt[/url], on Flickr

Beauly and Affric overnighter by Matt[/url], on Flickr

I rode 75 miles on a carbon race bike last week (Cube Listening) on 25mm tyres and about 30.miles was gravel/national sustrans/farmers field (accidentally)

Bike held up fine on 25mm GP 5000.

Suspect unless riding proper gravel off road long distance you need less bike than you think…

As above, be very wary of the Camino sizing. I’ve the large V4 titanium version which I’ve just put up for sale because it is HUGE. I’m 5ft 10” and the reach is ridiculous. I’ve shortened the stem as much as I can but have thrown the towel in and ordered the medium size aluminium version.

Alpkit claim size large is suitable for 5ft 9” to 6ft 2”. I would say 5ft 11” (with monkey arms) and above.

My fault really. I should’ve looked at the numbers more closely.

Can’t compare it to the colibri but I ride the camino 99% on road (I can count on one hand how much gravel it’s been on) over the winter and any time it’s wet. I can’t say I ever ride it and think god this feels like my MTB but it copes brilliantly with the roads and I run it tubeless with some removable SKS mudguards. I find it reassuringly comfortable over the winter when the roads can be lethal and I never struggle with the gearing, very occasionally I spin out but I’m not racing on it because I don’t fancy face planting on a wet corner in fact it always feels very comfortable, I don’t go riding up enormous hills on it mind. It’s a tiny bit slower on my routes due to the weight difference 16.2 mph vs 17 mph but I generally slow down over the winter because again the roads can be lethal.

I bought a Ti Camino as a gravel bike,but it now does a lot of road miles as my winter bike and tourer.

With a choice of wheels,it’s close (for me) to being a perfect doitall.

This was one of the main reasons I bought it, the bigger tyre clearances just gives you more options if needed.

Never noticed the geo on the road,but then I am not trying to do chaingang speeds #adaptordie. 🙂

I think the Colibri will do you fine!

I dabble in a bit of gravel and bought a ti frame set at a bargain price on eBay.

I have fitted anything from a 28mm Veloflex road tyre to a 37mm WTB Riddler gravel tyre in the back (pushing it as clearance is rated at 36mm but doable if dry fine gravel).

It works best in my eyes with the Challenge Strada Bianca at 36mm.

Great for the commute from work with a bit of fire road/ old railway line on the way home!

Go for it!

Depends what you want from your road bikes. I’ve got a Camino V4 that spends the vast majority of its time on roads with 38mm slicks on. If I put 32mm tyres on I can’t see it would give away much to a Colibri in speed, and for the kind of riding I do the longer wheelbase is neither here nor there I reckon. I guess it would be heavier.

I’m happy with it, but that said if I were buying again now I’d maybe be looking more at an endurance road bike than a gravel bike. Although maybe with more clearance than a Colibri.

But I’d like to be able to do easy off road – like the gravel paths you find on national cycle networks.

My 30mm tired Cannondale synapse ( an sportive bike rather than their full grrrr race bike) is fine on very easy gravel. Flat corners are approached with extreme caution as it has full road tires.

I took a 25c tired road bike round the Sherwood pines trail center once. It was  ok, I didn’t crash but some of the corners were super sketchy.

If it were me I’d go for the camino and fit fat tires for road comfort. The biggest continental gp5000 I could find.

I’ve got a Calibri and a gravel bike (Kona Sutra Ltd). The Colibri is a very comfortable road bike, much faster and more nimble than the gravel bike. I used to use the gravel bike on roads but I’ve put big tyres on it now just for use off road, I wouldn’t ride roads on anything but the Calibri now, it’s loads better at that job. I do occasionally ride the Calibri on 32mm tyres on canal towpaths etc. and it’s fine, but that’s not really what it’s best at. The gears are the thing that make the biggest difference.

I have a Camino, the current version and it’s a brilliant off-road ride – the head angle is 69˚ which is mountain bike territory, it’s designed to work with a 70mm stem or shorter, and it’s long for a gravel bike. It’s perfectly happy on the road too, loves fast descents on torn-up UK tarmac, but it’s quite different n feel from a traditional road bike.

It’s slightly wasted on the road in the sense that it can do an awful lot more, which isn’t too say that it’s not perfectly happy on tarmac, it’s just that it really lights up when stuff’s a bit rougher. If you don’t ride traditional road bikes, then none of this will make much odds anyway.

The Colibri’s head angle is 3˚ steeper, I think, and while I haven’t ridden one, I’d guess that it’s much more conventional road handling in feel. I think the bottom line is that either will do what the OP, but if you want something with the potential to ride harder off road trails at some point in the future, the Camino will give you that, while the Colibri has a lower ceiling.

If the comparison were with most other gravel bikes, it wouldn’t be anything like as clear cut – something like a Secan, for example, is much move conventional in geometry terms – but the Camino is a bit ‘out there’ alongside stuff like the Santa Cruz Stigmata. It’s also arguably not the prettiest bike in the world, but it has a sort of robust, functional grrr-ness to it that I’ve come to really like… anyway…

Edit: that bottle’s trying to escape, hadn’t noticed that before…

@dave_h not sure what bike you are coming from but worth noting that both the Camino and Calibri have pretty aggressive Stack to Reach ratios of about 1.43/1.45 respectively. For me (5’11” on a Large) this resulted in the saddle 60mm above the bars. As I’m at the point where its more about ease and comfort than speed I have held off ordering. I did test ride a Camino on a couple of 20mile gravel circuits round ByC but I think I was carried away by it’s featherweight (compared to to what I am used to) and climb/gravel capability when in reality I will be doing more 60-90 mile rides on road/gravel paths/bike packing with a limited amount of hard core gravel riding.

The usual STW MO is to recommend what you have and I have a current geometry Camino in medium at 5’10”. It’s a great bike for 90s style mountain biking around the Peak District.

So, from what you describe of your use case, I’d say the Camino is more bike than you need and something a bit more sprightly might be more engaging to ride.

@Onzadog I’m getting there, sprightly and more relaxed than the Camino or Colibri.

I did 1700 miles last summer on a Colibri with 35mm GP5000s through Belgium Holland and France. Rough lanes, cobbles, farm tracks all no problem. Incidentally the angles on the first Caminos and the current Colibris are pretty similar.

the Camino is a bit ‘out there’ alongside stuff like the Santa Cruz Stigmata

I re-read my post. For clarity, in case anyone actually cares, what I was saying is that the geometry of the current Camino and the Stigmata is quite similar – same head angle, I think the Stig is slightly longer, which is impressive…

Camino has moved away in recent versions from what you are looking for in my opinion, it’s more on the mountain bike side than the road side

Always had half an eye on a Camino and didn’t really think that until I revisited Sonder’s website

With the flat bars it really shows how much closer it is to an MTB than road bike. Also though I’ve never quite understood how frames can purportedly do both flat bar and drops… the reach must be compromised on one variant?

Also though I’ve never quite understood how frames can purportedly do both flat bar and drops… the reach must be compromised on one variant?

+1

Reach is unaffected by bars, it’s the measurement from the centre of the BB to the centre of the head tube.

I’m interested in this thread as the Colibri has caught my interest for a new winter, mud guarded road bike.

Reach is unaffected by bars, it’s the measurement from the centre of the BB to the centre of the head tube.

Yes exactly. So how can the same reach measurement work for two very different handlebar types. It’s going to be suboptimal for one setup, probably the flat bars

I have a colibri ti, with 105. I use it year round in Belgium and France. it’s fine for gravel paths and roads. It has all the attachment points for racks and guards, making it a good commuter too.

My alternative daily ride is a spa cycles elan fixie or an omnium cxc with flat bars. Compared to either of those, it’s super stable and relaxed geometry 🙂

I wouldn’t take it on DH tracks or off drops, but I’m also no Tomac.

Another happy Colibri Ti owner here with 35mm conti tyres on. Very smooth and secure.

Just a thought as I’m running a gravel frame as a road bike which is sort of what you’re after. I’m using a Dolan GXC which I bought frame only and then built up with road bits. They do cycle to work as I bought my GXC frame using it.

Personally I’m running 30c Conti GP5000s on Hunt 4seasons road wheels – but you can fit pretty wide tyres in the frame with guards should you want to.

Dolan do 1x or 2x builds. Grx or 105 for £1799. I’ve noticed they now have a ‘road’ build which looks ideal as a commuter – as well as their existing gravel builds.

Mine seems plenty fast enough to have some fun racing people on the cycle track commute to work and it’s way more comfy than my previous Cannondale Caad12.

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-gxc-carbon-disc-gravel-bike-shimano-12s-105-r7120/

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-gxc-carbon-disc-gravel-bike-shimano-grx-rx610-1×12-hdr/

Mine:

Thanks everyone.  I was probably leaning more towards the Colibri and I think the general feedback has confirmed that direction as I’m wanting something with a slightly more road bias.

The Dolan option is interesting and they take C2W so might consider the GXA/C options too and if that’s the choice, whether 105, GRX 610 or 820.

One question door closes and another opens 😀

How about another Camino?

https://www.stevensbikes.de/en/de/gravel/carbon/camino/

Nice but pricey and would need to find a dealer that would do the Halfords C2W scheme.

When I dealt with Halfords before on a cycle to work bike, they were happy to buy whatever bike I wanted in, even got over £100 of free extras that I spent on a helmet and lights. Try asking them.

Thread resurrection with a specific question for Colibri (Al) owners, the AK site says it’ll take 700x36mm tyres max, but obviously they’re being cautious right?

Anyone reckon you could cram 700x40mm in there?

There’s not a lot of room on my Alu Colibri with 32s on around the fork. Could possibly squeeze 36s but not 40s I’m guessing. It’s not really a gravel bike, it’s a very relaxed road bike. I love mine, it’s ace.

I have a Camino v3. It is ok but a bit on the sluggish side both handling and weight. Happily takes 50mm tyres though so if that is what you need it is fair enough. My old Ti Pickenflick was much nicer and the only reason I would take the Camino over my carbon Dirty Disco is the tyre clearance.