Dark side gearing

Whitestone – not sure greenhill is on the menu then but pretty sure we are going through grassington and then towards kettlewell/settle??????

If you’re going over Kidstones from the south then it’s possible you’ll have Fleet Moss from Hawes or maybe Greenhow on the way back over. FM is a testing one, but as long as the dreaded words ‘Park Rash’ haven’t been mentioned…

Not sure what route the OP is doing – if he’s heading to Settle then he could come back via Red Shaw/Newby Head which while not steep is usually in to the wind going up Widdale.

Could the OP tell us what the event is?

Greenhow Hill is the road leading out of Pateley Bridge towards Grassington, quite long but in three distinct rises with almost flat in between.

I strongly approve of this optimistic formulation. An alternative view would be an initial punch to let you know it means business, followed by morale sapping false summits, height gain rewarded by a strengthening 20 mph westerly right in your face…

But it’s no Park Rash and a granny ring or whatever would only prolong the pleasure.

I assumed comfortable = tempo which is Zone 3 heart rate. Steeper or faster needs Zone 4 and there is only one way to get better, sadly. Zone 4 is not comfortable, regardless of your fitness level.

How about the chainset? My SRAM front mech copes with both a normal road compact and a MTB double running 28/44.

I think its fairly similar to the route of the le petit depart sportive run by skipton cycling club. I have no real idea as i am joining a social charity ride organised by a friend of a friend. I have signed up to the le petit depart as a taster.

OK, Le Petit Depart doesn’t go over by Malham but if the rest of it is that route then there’s a steep pull out of Settle. There’s also a short steep pull on the road behind Malham Tarn just before you drop down to Arncliffe.

You have it Op, just crack on with what you’ve got. Don’t worry about getting of and pushing if you have to, better to save your legs for latter in the ride than killing them half way round. Last year at the Velethon it was wall to wall pushing up Caerphilly mountain and thats only 16%.

Whitestone – it could well be that the Malham hill was related to something else, as you can tell i pretty much know nothing. Now you have mentioned the hill to settle that does ring a bell as i think someone raised an eyebrow suggesting it was pretty fierce, what gradient is that hill? What gradients can i expect on the petit depart?

+1 for more training/experience. Munqe Chick just got back from a girls trip to the lakes. She cleaned Wrynose and Hardnott (30% ramps) on a 34/28 in the rain at the end of a ride.

I wouldn’t try gear a road bike for stuff that steep as they are anomalies, I’d gear for more usual steep climbs eg the 15% stuff you mention, and rely on physical and mental strength for the crazy stuff.

double post from crappy glitchy computer

There’s the previously mentioned top part of Kidstones, easy to the pub then it steepens a little until you get to the sharp LH bend near the top when it ramps up to maybe 20% for 50 metres before easing slightly for the last 150 metres. No false summit 🙂 A bit of rolling generally uphill riding to get to Hawes then there’s a short steep section to head towards Ribblehead, only 50m or so, and another ramp about halfway up Widdale. Biggest problem here can be the headwind as it’s very open.

Rolling (i.e. lots of little ups and downs) but generally downhill to Settle then you’ve got High Hill Lane http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=382725&Y=463380&A=Y&Z=115 , it doesn’t ease until the red number 68 but there’s a long drag from Scaleber Force to the top. From there it’s lots more little ups and downs back to the finish. There’s no sting in the tail like with the White Rose going up Langbar.

+1 on mental strength.

No idea how long these climbs mentioned above are but when I am tackling something like the Col du Madeleine you know that it’s 25km and it’s going to take something like two hours to climb and you just have to accept that.

Keep thinking positive thoughts and that you are going to get up it and you will.

As soon as you let negative thoughts creep in then all strength drains from your legs and you are off.

FWIW.. I’ve ridden the Alps and the Dales and I think some Yorkshire climbs are steeper than you can easily find in the Alps. The problem at +20% is cadence as standing may not be an option especially if its a bit wet. Still think you’ll be ok with a 30 and certainly wouldnt go to any more trouble than putting on a 32.

Oh and you could google “durianrider” for a whole world of sweary australian rants about cadence, spinning and such.

Try this, great gear calculator http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=34,50&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,22,25,28&TF=85&UF=2099&SL=2

Note, long miles won’t help you climb. Training on hills and turbo will. Long comfortable miles just junk

It’s also your power to weight ratio so if your overweight that might be the contributing factor

No idea how long these climbs mentioned above are but when I am tackling something like the Col du Madeleine you know that it’s 25km and it’s going to take something like two hours to climb and you just have to accept that.

Alpine climbs are usually a long, steady grind. Not really what we’re talking about here, I think.

Whitestone – if the very steep stuff is only short distances then i am not worried about that. Ok there may be the odd long slog of a hill but it sounds like there are sections where you can recover slightly. I guess it all sounds worse than it is which is what generally happens. Thanks for the heads up, will try and do a bit of homework on the course.
pawsy – i now have a hill to train on but i also have to do junk miles so i can get the distance.

Another thing, is that climbing the steep stuff effectively is often about leaning about yourself, and how hard you are riding.

I remember the first time I rode the Bwlch y Groes; I caned it along the road from Dinas Mawddwy, went way too hard at the base of the climb, and was at a standstill by 1/3 of the way up. Luckily it was just a couple of weeks after I got my first power meter. The week before, I had done a 10 miler, so I had at least some idea of what I could do when fresh for 20 minutes. When I looked at the files for my ride, I could see that I was pushing Zone 3 on much of the approach, and then went straight into Zone 6 at the base of the climb before dropping back to Zone 5. Boom!

Now, one may expect to be able to ride at Z6 for a max of about 2 minutes (when fresh), and Z5 for 5-8mins. But it’s *really* easy to smash up into these zones when the road rises and you start to slow down. Your brain thinks “hey, you’re really starting to slow down here, get out of the saddle and push it, you wimp”. Given your lactate level is probably reasonable at this point, you push way too hard, too soon.

As you ride hills more and more, you lean to meter-out your effort. You learn to gauge your RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) much better. Both for when you are fresh, and when you are tiring.

These are the Strava segments:

Kidstones: https://www.strava.com/segments/7236735
Widdale: https://www.strava.com/segments/5082713
High Lane: https://www.strava.com/segments/8180303 which is part of https://www.strava.com/segments/957804

I take about 15mins for the last of these without going in to the red.

Was out riding in the Lakes at the weekend with some mates from work. This is what one of them wrote about it…

http://www.graceqom.com/my-struggle-up-the-struggle/

Climbing hills is a mental thing more than just buying the lowest gears you can.

As you ride hills more and more, you lean to meter-out your effort. You learn to gauge your RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) much better. Both for when you are fresh, and when you are tiring.

This, exactly. Find your zones, either with a power meter or for an approximation a HRM, and stick to them.

You can only do a certain amount of Z5 and Z6 in a day, you can’t effectively refuel those stores on the hoof. Stay in Z3/4 as much as you can when you can (don’t be tempted to smash the 10% ramps) so you have the capacity for Z5/6 efforts when you need them.

It depends on the steepness. I just didn’t have the strength to crack the 22% cobbled sections of the Ronde sportive. Nothing mental, just couldn’t push the pedals around. If the road had been smooth tarmac I may have made it but who knows.

That said, I toyed with the idea of changing for a 30T cassette and I’m not sure I can be bothered. A bit more training would be more useful (and cheaper) I think.

and lose some weight too. Makes a helluva difference

No access to power meter or hrm, just the usual readings and cadence. Just been out and rode straight up a hill which i think is about 20% for about 100 metres and got up no worries without jumping out of the saddle. The hill runs parallel to my nemesis hill but is longer and thus the steepness is more gradual rather than slab faced. I have at least confirmed my nemesis hill is 20% minimum and is a lot longer than i remembered and probably worse than anything on the petit depart. It was in the TDY and i think it wasnt categorised but a lot of people mentioned it will come as a shock to the riders, hey ho i will get up it in the next month come hell or highwater.

Mtb idle – i dont really have that much to lose but hopefully extra training will move a few pounds.

A basic HRM will cost less than £20 and made a huge difference to my endurance riding. OK, it made me realise how hard I was working on a regular ride and how ‘easy’ I should ride for endurance. It also made me realise how slow I was in HR zone 3 and 4 😳 – but at least I could then do a 12 hour MTB solo on that knowledge.

If anyone knows arthington hill in Pool near otley then this is currently my training hill, been up once but had to stop 2/3rds way up rest for a minute then continued. My goal is to get up in one go before the long ride which i reckon is doable as i wasnt at my best last time.

Is it Black Hill that’s the hill in question? As in this one: https://www.strava.com/segments/676432

That is a bit of a brute, I’ve overcooked it a few times at the beginning and you really suffer towards the end when that happens. Best just to really ease yourself into it and let the pain come to you!

I’d train on Weardley bank and Creskeld either side to begin with as they’re a lot more manageable. Also if you want some cool Alpine style switchbacks that are fairly hard but good fun then have a look down Hall Ride/Drive at the top of Creskeld. There’s no traffic so great for training on.

Jamz – spot on. The hill is a brute and there is no respite at all which i think makes it a good challenge. I did Weardley bank tonight and got up that ok which i will now use as a benchmark. Will have a look at hall ride,cheers.

Is this the Richmond 5 Dales, 83mile route? I’m doing the 118mile route with around 3000m ascending!

I’ve been trying to get some longer hills in to build endurance, and the shorter steep ones for strength.

Nearest ones to me are Boltby, Sutton, White Horse and Wass Bank. I’ll try and use these to train for Richmond…

Can anyone recommend a hrm that i can use with my garmin edge 25 (i think it has to be ant+) as this seems like a good way to monitor hill climbing. Also does anyone know how to use the virtual partner function on edge 25, would like to compare against previous attempts of these hills. Look at me hijacking my own thread!

Any of the garmin ones will work. In fact i think i have a spare in the garage, ping me your address and a few quid for postage and I’ll send you it.

Theotherjonv – thanks for that, i have sent you a mail.

The Gorby is a workout designed to improve hillclimbing ability, basically 5 x 5 mins ftp(or hr threshold) + 10/20% or as much as you can manage.
You could do the same just by using perceived effort if you havent got a PM or HRM.

There is an old cycling technique for getting up really steep pitches, and it’s much safer than wobbling all over the road at 2mph gasping for breath.

It’s called walking.

Don’t underestimate its value. You get a rest, you enjoy the view, and you’re just as fast.

Oh, and if you’re macho, one testicle will fall off. 🙂