Cotic Rocket update from Cy

true or untrue or exaggerated or understated or laden with whatever it’s happened. Now would seem like a good time to move along.

I’m still waiting for the explosion in 650B+ 👿

Now would seem like a good time to move along.

Indeed. And you’ll move along quicker on slightly bigger wheels… 😉

mikewsmith – Member
Now would seem like a good time to move along.

For who?

I think it does us good to be reminded of what a greedy, rapacious, cynical, dishonest bunch of shysters some of those in the industry are.

And the media reaction to 650b will always be there to remind us exactly how we are perceived by those who claim to represent and promote the best interests of ‘our community’.

The bike industry doesn’t care about what riders think or want, any further than if they can get people to buy their stuff. As riders, we owe them nothing. Frankly, I am excited about a move away from the massive companies by the folk exasperated by the dropping of the original 26″ mtb wheel size. We can buy our bikes from smaller, more core companies, the odd one man bands even smaller than Cotic. The bike industry can go to hell, with their carbon and all that. Pfft.

I know communism must have created much better bikes than our capitalist approach ever could – have seen how popular bicycles were in China?

Complaining about cynical marketing bullshit and the forced introduction of new standards is promoting communism?

Wow.
🙂

To be fair to the bike industry (including the mags etc) they need something new to sell otherwise we’d all be happy with what we have and they didn’t have a whole lot of other options.

They had an infinite number of options.

But they were all difficult ones – making things lighter/longer lasting/more accessible/comfier/more efficient/more fun is difficult.
Increasing market share is difficult.
Encouraging new people to take up the pastime is difficult.
Bringing genuine innovation to market at an accessible price is very difficult indeed.

Withdrawing an existing standard (and long term support for it) and replacing it with a pointless new one is much easier.

/\ That.

If the bike industry was struggling to sell their stuff, there are many ways they could have gone. What about making a move towards BMX, where a bike can be taken apart and built entirely with a 5 and 6mm Allen keys and a hammer? What about promoting their wares outside of the mega bucks racing world and more towards real grass roots events and initiatives, generating real rider goodwill? What about some more genuine geometry exploration?

There are so many more things than an incompatible, fractionally larger wheel size. That ain’t communism, it’s just not cynical and cheap.

Can’t wait to see people’s reaction to B+
Or B- ( though that’s just me and Vee Rubber)

I agree; I’d rather they’d gone down those routes too, but would anybody really dump a perfectly good bike just to buy one that is slightly lighter or that can be taken apart with two allen keys? I doubt it. But clearly they will jump all over a new sized wheel.

I may not be happy with it, but I still can’t blame the companies for behaving like companies.

Of course, we can behave like consumers and use our money to support those companies who have behaved in the way that we want. If enough of us do so then the companies will behave differently. Unfortunately it would seem that most of our peers just want to buy whatever is in fashion at the lowest price possible.

And who touted 650b/the death of 26/the stupidity of those who refuse to embrace the new wheel size?
The bike media, who spouted every single platitude spoon fed to them by the manufacturers.

meanwhile people are enjoying riding their brand new 27.5/29″bike

Oh man. I was thinking about the Rocket yesterday. It must be very frustrating and stressful for Cy.

Withdrawing an existing standard (and long term support for it) and replacing it with a pointless new one is much easier.

It’s only pointless in your opinion. I suspect it has a much greater effect on how a bike rides than the introduction of tapered steerers did – and they’ve caused equal problems for old frames. I was sceptical but I’ve spent most of the year riding a 27.5 full-sus and I’m now back on my 26 hardtail for winter. Based on that I’ve concluded that they’re just a bit better for MTBing – I can see a disadvantage for dirt jumping, freeride, slopestyle and very small riders but for everyone else I suspect mountain biking just started out on a smaller than ideal wheel.

It’s all very well arguing it’s a tiny percentage change but a 2 degree change of head angle is equally small – and it feels really different!

I have it on good authority that the main reasons for shelving the 26 Rocket are nothing to do with manufacturing in the UK. The reason for scrapping it was mostly down to Cotics inability to secure a deal with the enduro grade ‘pop’ suppliers. The abundance of ‘pop’ was one of the selling points with the Rocket and people who had a natural ‘pop’ deficit (bad genes) were understandably very eager to sample this phenomenon. This lack of pop wont be as apparent on the 27b version. I’m not overly sure of the science behind it but it’s to do with large wheels breathing life into trails or something.

And who touted 650b/the death of 26/the stupidity of those who refuse to embrace the new wheel size? The bike media, who spouted every single platitude spoon fed to them by the manufacturers.

See that guys holding a gun your head who is making you buy new bikes and forcing you read the magazines? If you want i’ll have a word with him and ask him to stop.

See that guys holding a gun your head who is making you buy new bikes and forcing you read the magazines? If you want i’ll have a word with him and ask him to stop.

I’m a victim of this. I relented and bought Pikes on the back of the fanfair and media hype. They are ok. They aren’t the best thing though. I regret selling my sorted-55’s. Lots of other kit that was bigged up by the mags that I couldn’t see.

The man’s running a business, give him a break; if his market feedback and manufacturing costs mean he can’t sell enough 26″ Rockets to make it economically viable then why would we expect him to make them?

I do feel for those who’ve pre-ordered one and are still waiting, but personally I would have cancelled my order and bought something else by now.

I do feel for those who’ve pre-ordered one and are still waiting, but personally I would have cancelled my order and bought something else by now.

Nobody is in that position afaik. All orders were cancelled a few months ago.

brant – Member
Can’t wait to see people’s reaction to B+

Just get on with it! 🙂

hora – Member

I’m a victim of this. I relented and bought Something on the back of the fanfair and media hype. They are ok. They aren’t the best thing though. I regret selling my Other thing.

^TBF at least this was just about forks – I’ve done this with whole bikes!!

In fact I can think of 2 but I won’t name and shame

For me its normally forks. Frames I just see something shiny/fancy something else. Never full bikes. Thats big wonga!

Fortuntately the 2 I’m thinking of were both bought ‘reduced’ as last years models 😉

Unfortunately they were both bought 😳

It’s only pointless in your opinion. I suspect it has a much greater effect on how a bike rides than the introduction of tapered steerers did – and they’ve caused equal problems for old frames. I was sceptical but I’ve spent most of the year riding a 27.5 full-sus and I’m now back on my 26 hardtail for winter. Based on that I’ve concluded that they’re just a bit better for MTBing – I can see a disadvantage for dirt jumping, freeride, slopestyle and very small riders but for everyone else I suspect mountain biking just started out on a smaller than ideal wheel.

It’s all very well arguing it’s a tiny percentage change but a 2 degree change of head angle is equally small – and it feels really different!

Bang on. Up to you if the difference is worth it or if it’s better or worse but there is a difference.

As much as the evil manufacturers and mags force us to buy new stuff the simple fact is people like buying the latest thing regardless of the actual difference it makes. For examples see:

650b.
1×11.
Tapered forks.
Slacker and slacker frames.
Stans rims.
Pikes.
Carbon.
Wider and wider bars.
Shorter and shorter stems.

Most of the above might do the job better then what you had before but the margins are small and you don’t ‘need’ any of them. Doesn’t stop the vast majority of us, including those so very upset about 650b joining in to some degree.

Ultimately, this is the problem with having mtb culture tied inseparably to big corporate companies. We, as riders, should decide what we want from our bikes and our sport/activity/lifestyle. I would argue that a lot of the relentless tech progression is why so many talk about bikes rather than about riding, and why there is so little “culture” (literature, poetry, music, art) in mtbing.

Of course, this has nothing to do with Cy, who I feel sorry for.

I would argue that a lot of the relentless tech progression is why so many talk about bikes rather than about riding, and why there is so little “culture” (literature, poetry, music, art) in mtbing.

So on the one hand people spend too long talking about bikes, on the other hand they’re not doing it in rhyme? And this is a bad thing because? Anyone care to contribute a haiku about 1×11, or a cubist painting depicting the inner turmoil over the 650b/29er decision?

The “relentless tech progression” is simply the result of people doing a lot of riding and thinking “how can we make this better next year”. Yes making a new model for next year makes them more money, but it has to be better/different or no one would buy it! Pretty much every change people have moaned about is because someone sat down and drawn up something better. Frames’s haven’t be obsoleted by the 4×8 drivechain, or the reverse-tapered forks, or 24″ wheels, they’ve all moved forewards. None of that makes an old bike any worse, just not as good as the new one in the shop.

All Cy’s said is they’re not making the 26″ rocket any more as people now expect something better in that part of the market. The new one will inevitably have other tweeks too, internal dropper guides, maybe the ISCG will disappear as it’s redundant, 650b+ tyre clerance, etc.

I think it does us good to be reminded of what a greedy, rapacious, cynical, dishonest bunch of shysters some of those in the industry are.

And the media reaction to 650b will always be there to remind us exactly how we are perceived by those who claim to represent and promote the best interests of ‘our community’.

This is actually true, they haven’t even denied it. It’s drilled home by calling it “27.5”( I do wish this bullshit would stop). I read something by one of the industry guys. Said 650 came about mainly because the euros didn’t take to 29ers as they would have liked. The only good thing about it is that it’s barely any different to 26……….

and why there is so little “culture” (literature, poetry, music, art) in mtbing

move here. can ride your bike thru a forest of “art” and ride up to Frankenstein’s Castle, whilst listening to birdsong. and poetry is just stupid.

Shame about the Rocket. Would have had one in black, and customised the decals. It was just about my last hope for 26inch and threaded bottom bracket shell.

Lol masonsoul

I know what you mean. I can’t imagine MTB equivalent of Norman mailer the fight anytime soon. Closer to home road photography and writing and bmx photography and video seems to be much richer than mountain bike. Privateer died on its arse. No old pros seem to do much writing. It’s not a sport/pastime that seems to want to think about itself. Singletrack excepted of course 😉

Everyone enjoyed Reveal the Path so much that it’s never been followed.

Theres lots of good writing out there if you look for blogs and suchlike. Not everyone considers Strava to be the ultimate route to ascension.

It’s really great that this thread has turned into a wheel size debate, eh?

why there is so little “culture” (literature, poetry, music, art) in mtbing.

Clearly you are not a man familiar with the Pinkbike comments section.

Hmmmm – I don’t agree with the notion that grasping bike companies are hawking kit that doesn’t confer any real world benefits to the sport/pastime and that we’re all mindlessly sucking it up, powerless passengers being railroaded. Granted there will be the odd exception as there is to everything in life, but in the main, as thisisnotaspoon has mentioned, those technological advances are for the betterment of the sport/pastime in terms of making bikes more durable/capable for their intended purpose, otherwise the respective companies just wouldn’t survive or remain competitive. We are the drivers for this. I don’t feel I have to go 27.5/650b, 29 or whatever. I see it as having more options and diversity, which is good. There’s plenty of product out there to keep 26” alive for years if that’s your thing – as it is mine at the moment.

I think Cotic woukd be mad to bring out a 26 inch fs. A steel FS is already niche product to then make it even more niche by sticking with an obsolete wheel size doesn’t make business sense. Not matter how much people on here might want one the market has moved on. I’m currently riding a 26inch 456 with 9 speed a straight headtube and qr wheels and non dropper post and absolutly love it. But my next bike and a i think its true for most will be 27.5 11 speed tapered headtube maxels and have a a dropper post.

They wouldnt wamt to stuck with a load of stock they couldn’t shift quickly. Look at the Gyro’s that Orange have just have to sell at less than 1/2 price.

It’s really great that this thread has turned into a wheel size debate, eh?

Yes; will no-one think of the kittens?

Dig deep enough

http://www.churchoftherotatingmass.com/2014/12/02/are-we-not-journalists-part-2/ really is this what journalists think

And if you follow twitter you get a good idea why it “the rocket” didn’t get made in this country, had far more to do with personalities than no ability to manufacture,

It’s drilled home by calling it “27.5”( I do wish this bullshit would stop).

Good point! I just measured my 27.5 wheels and they’re closer to 28″ – and that’s easier to say.

Still less than an inch bigger than a 26 with the same volume/height tyres.

deluded – Member
Hmmmm – I don’t agree with the notion that grasping bike companies are hawking kit that doesn’t confer any real world benefits to the sport/pastime and that we’re all mindlessly sucking it up, powerless passengers being railroaded. Granted there will be the odd exception as there is to everything in life, but in the main, as thisisnotaspoon has mentioned, those technological advances are for the betterment of the sport/pastime in terms of making bikes more durable/capable for their intended purpose, otherwise the respective companies just wouldn’t survive or remain competitive. We are the drivers for this. I don’t feel I have to go 27.5/650b, 29 or whatever. I see it as having more options and diversity, which is good. There’s plenty of product out there to keep 26” alive for years if that’s your thing – as it is mine at the moment.

The clue is on the user name.

There was a valid argument for 29ers as a wheel size for those who made 26″ wheeled machines look like BMXs but for the rest of us there’s no tangible benefit at least not enough of one to warrant making 95% of existing hardware obsolete overnight.

I don’t know who instigated it or why anyone perpetuated it but it was the biggest con trick in MTB history and most people have fallen for it. OK it’s mostly benign in that it’s a just a bike with bigger wheels but it’s allowed the industry to sell a load of completes at vastly inflated prices where I’d imagine thy wouldn’t normally have done so. All in the name of fashion and progress.

Where did 650B/27.5 originate anyway?

Good luck with the new tweener Rocket Cy.

Still less than an inch bigger than a 26 with the same volume/height tyres.

Yes, they have the wrong name too. As do 29ers…

Have you ever stopped to consider that one reason 27.5 has proved popular is that it isn’t closer to the 29 size? Maybe it is actually the (usually mythical marketing) sweet spot? 😛