Comedy customer service exchange with Evans (Arkose content)

I bought a Pinnacle Arkose frame back in July, and over the past week or two I’ve got round to starting to build it up.

When I came to install the seatpost, I realised someone at the Pinnacle factory must have gotten overenthusiastic with the reamer. It’s a total wizard’s sleeve. I’ve tried two 27.2mm Thomsons and a USE, and they all rattle around in there like crazy.

I’ve been exchanging emails with Evans’ customer service for a couple of days, and I even sent them a video of how loose the fit is. I explained that if I tighten a seatclamp up to 5nm it’s nowhere near close to holding the post in place.

I was hoping I’d get it sorted nice and easily and I could post a positive customer service story on here, but this is their latest response:

Hi

Thank you for your email

I’ve looked at your video, and you are right the 27.2mm seat post is too small, have you thought about trying a 27.4 or a 28mm.

Here is a link to a seat post with these measurements. http://www.evanscycles.com/products/vavert/single-bolt-400mm-seatpost-ec039090

If you have any other questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards

Andy
Evans Cycles

FFS. It’s not designed for a 27.4mm or 28.0mm post, it’s designed for a 27.2mm one and the frame is clearly defective. Plus I don’t want to buy three or four naff “Vavert” posts on the offchance that one in a weird size will fit.

Rant over. I’ll let you know what Andy comes back with.

Aye, proper wellington boot top, that.

That can only be a warranty job.

The only useful thing that Andy at Evans did for you was to put this bit in writing.

…and you are right the 27.2mm seat post is too small

The rest of the email is nonsense but I’m sure you’ll get it sorted in the end. There’s clearly a fault and it shouldn’t be down to the customer to find a solution.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. Somewhat annoyingly I’m going to have to unbolt all the bits I’ve already installed when they get round to sending me a new frame 👿

And the slit is facing backwards, I’d have not bought it for that reason alone

Deffo a new frame though

At least your floor is nice and clean.

Deffo a new frame though

Assuming they have any of last years model left?

And the slit is facing backwards, I’d have not bought it for that reason alone

Agreed, but it does tick a lot of other boxes (post mount discs, 135mm rear spacing, rack and guard mounts that are actually useable, normal threaded BB). Internal cable routing would be nice too.

At least your floor is nice and clean.

I took the photos inside to avoid comments about the patio 😉

Assuming they have any of last years model left?

I’m going to need some sort of frame off them, because I bought that tapered carbon fork to fit especially and I’ve already cut the steerer…

Had exactly the same issue with a Hoy bike from Evans.

Does “Andy” know you bought it from Evans? 😯

Inexplicably stupid email if he does….

I’ve tried two 27.2mm Thomsons

I’ve never had a Thomson post that didn’t slip. Just saying, like…

You selling the dodgy frame on? Again, just saying…

I’m going to need some sort of frame off them,

Yep, return it and get it swapped. No probs there. The tolerance may be out – it should be ~27.30mm internally if you have a vernier to check. Over 27.35 is too big.
(james@pinnacle)

a +0.1 tol on a reamed hole, **** me I need a job machining bike frames! I’m lucky if i get 0.02mm

Edit… And don’t reamers only ever cut smaller as they get old

a +0.35 tol on a reamed hole, **** me I need a job machining bike frames! I’m lucky if i get 0.02mm

It’s a 27.3 hole to allow a sliding fit on a 27.2 post, the tolerance is 0.05mm.

[edit] you edited.

I’m shocked at Andy’s response. Suggesting a new seatpost, when clearly a coke can shim would do the job.

Thanks Jameso, that’s good to hear.

I don’t have a vernier caliper, but (and I see we’re thinking along the same lines aracer) I did try making a shim out of a coke can. It took 1.5 wraps to get the post to fit reasonably snugly. Apparently Coke cans are ~0.097mm thick, which would suggest the seattube is closer to 27.45mm.

.1 clear would be described with different words around here to sliding, but I fear the swear filter would pick them up.

And don’t reamers only ever cut smaller as they get old

: ) edited that before you’d posted – yes, that was why some other frames I know of got a bit tight.
The ID at the top of the seat tube where slotted is 27.3mm. The post is 27.2, 0.1mm is the difference not the tolerance range.

Jameso, you could just say its a new ‘standard’. The bike world needs more standards 😉

Didn’t someone make a 27.3 seatpost for frames which were a bit over-enthusiastically reamed?

Not if it’s 27.45 though.

On One?

Jameso: while we have your attention… is the Arkrose fork available aftermarket and in straight steerer variety?

Taper only, sold as part of the 2014 framesets. We may have some 2013-14 forks in the warranty spares stock, all tapered though.

Pah! 😥

On One?

It was an early batch of Ragley frames, I think?

I do like the look of that frame and fork,

hope it gets sorted.

Jameso, you could just say its a new ‘standard’.

Fwiw I’ve got some seat tubes on the way from Taiwan each with different ream dimensions to check for a better fit, they finished them a couple of weeks ago. There can be too-tight, scratching the post sort of fit and there’s this one that’s way too loose by the look of it. We tend to get them between ‘right’ and ‘a bit loose’ and narrowing the range is on the QC checks list. As is checking the ranges of the seat posts from suppliers – I have a 27.2 marked post here that’s clearly 27.4mm OD (not a supplier we use I should add, but of related interest etc)

I do like the look of that frame and fork,

hope it gets sorted.

Ta, it does look good doesn’t it? Although if Evans want to replace it with one of the early-90s Kona-esque splatter paint frames they’re doing for next year, I won’t complain 🙂

I’ve just head back from Andy. Here is the email I sent in response to his original message:

Andy,

Thanks for your response. However, I have several problems with it:

1. I don’t want a “Vavert” seatpost, and with the exception of Thomson I’m not sure any other brands make seatposts in 27.4mm or 28.0mm sizes (and you don’t even stock Thomson in those sizes);

2. How can I be sure a 27.4mm or 28.0mm seatpost will fit? What if it’s 27.3mm, or 27.5mm? I’m not willing to buy three or four different posts to find one that *might* fit.

3, MOST IMPORTANTLY, as I stated in my original email, the seattube is clearly badly reamed. This frame isn’t supposed to take a 27.4mm or 28.0mm seatpost, it’s supposed to take a 27.2mm one. And that doesn’t fit. The frame is therefore clearly defective.

I trust you will reply with a more reasonable solution promptly.

Kind regards,

Adam

And here is the reply I’ve just received from Andy:

Hi

Thank you for your email

As previously mentioned, I suggest you look at a larger diameter seat post available from the Vavert range.

If you have any other questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards

Andy
Evans Cycles
http://www.evanscycles.com

I’m genuinely lost for words. How do I respond to that?

Phone and ask to speak to the Customer Service Manager, if not available then the Sales Director. Clearly a waste of time continuing with an e-mail exchange.

I’d link him to this thread. If you just call him a cretin, that’s just one narky customer. When he appreciates that a significant number of folk with some knowledge (including someone from Pinnacle!) think his knowledge is a bit dubious he might have a rethink.

Failing that, you need to go above his head to someone with at least a tiny bit of engineering competence.

I’m afraid Andy is rather confirming my prejudices that Evans can’t be relied upon to sort arses from elbows with regards to bikes. Sort of like a posh Halfords.

I’m genuinely lost for words. How do I respond to that?

Dear, Andy.

Can I speak to your manager, please. As you appear to not fully comprehend the issue I am raising.

Kind Regards,

Finbar.

Trading standards would be my next email. Not sold as per description.

I’d link him to this thread. If you just call him a cretin, that’s just one narky customer. When he appreciates that that a significant number of folk with some knowledge (including someone from Pinnacle!) think his knowledge is a bit dubious he might have a rethink.

Think I’ll save that for the exchange with his manager! I’ve gone with the following:

Andy,

I’m afraid your reply is completely unacceptable. You’ve failed to address any of the points I made in my previous email.

I am going to need a proper response or for you to pass this upwards immediately.

Thank you,

Adam

I’d link him to this thread. If you just call him a cretin, that’s just one narky customer. When he appreciates that that a significant number of folk with some knowledge (including someone from Pinnacle!) think his knowledge is a bit dubious he might have a rethink.

Failing that, you need to go above his head to someone with at least a tiny bit of engineering competence.

The worrying thing is, what if OP was just some dude/dudette who didn’t have a STW to double check with?

Talk about a fob off.

Trading standards would be my next email. Not sold as per description.

Hopefully it won’t come to that. I still need a frame at the end of the day, and I would like a Pinnacle one.

Send him a link to this thread – including highlighting the bit where James from Pinnacle has said it’s clearly defective and they should swap it no probs.

Had exactly the same boneheaded selection of responses from a CRC rep.
1 email to the top chap and it was sorted in no time at all. Evans now have a customer services issue and a training issue and somebody in charge needs to know.

You need to escalate your complaint, speak firmly but politely.

or put it on twitter

Kind of moving beyond ‘Comedy customer service’ now……unbelievable.