[Closed] Challenging a warranty claim. - Specialzied -

Have a polite enquiry on their fudbook or twitter page. It's amazing how their attitude changes when it's a bit more public.

Any photos of the damages area that you would be willing to share?

Best advice I can give is don't go in all guns blazing, go back to the shop and explain you're not happy and why. Warranty is a tricky one because it's not a manufacturing defect it's an external force that has damaged the frame, I'd imagine it's in that grey area of discretion that exists between a definite warranty claim and definitely not a warranty claim.

Normally with impact damage they offer a crash replacement. depends where the crack is and if it could have been caused by an impact. if its directly on the bottom of the BB then that is unlikely as impacts there would be from the front 45 deg.

If in the end you draw a blank with Specialized then you might be able to claim on the accidental damage cover of your home insurance (if you have it, and yes I've seen that people have done this after crashes)

I'd love to share the pictures, but I don't know how to put them up on here from an iPhone. And I've been back to store, been polite about it all. But basically there just giving it me back and saying thanks but no!! But surely a bike must be suitable to a certain degree of 'use' before it breaks???!! I will be posting on Specialized FBook page, maybe a bit of public exposure will get at least a response !

IME, Specialized are pretty good about warranty stuff.

Did they even offer anything on their crash replacement policy?

be careful, they might sue you for having a forum name that is similar to one of their pedals...

😆

Offered a crash replacement at £1400. A- I'm still paying off the 8month old bike which has cracked! And B- why would I knowingly buy another frame at that price which bascially can't withstand anything rougher than a trail centre .

Go back and politely challenge it with the shop if you are unhappy, if they say it's impact damage and you genuinely* recall no impact of any noticeable** magnitude then, and it broke then it is neither:

- of satisfactory quality and
- fit for purpose

And the onus is on them to prove that it was. If it cannot survive normal use then it's hard to prove it fits the above. No need to go in all guns blazing, but an honest but firm discussion to start with.

Remember that your relationship is with the retailer, not the manufacturer, although complicated in this case if bought from a concept store, although they ARE different entities.

Having said all that I predict problems if they think it was impact damage*, are there any visible signs of impact to the paint/finish or is it 'just' a crack?

*
**

^ they will be the argument points, be prepared for them.

* - Ask them to explain and define what kind of impact they would have expected to cause such damage.

- If they answer with something well in excess of what it has experienced then explain that hasn't happened, you disagree with their assessment and want more proof.

- If they answer with something very trivial then it lends support to you fit-for-purpose/normal use argument for replacement under wartanty or at least goodwill gesture.

Put them on a photo sharing website, then link to that.

+1 for Spesh normally being great on warranty issues.

You may just have been unlucky with a sharp rock flicking up from the front wheel, wouldn't necessarily register, but still does the damage.

Onus is not on the retailer to prove it wasn't defective after 8 months. It's now up to the op to prove it was defective

Both the S Works carbon frames, Enduro and Stumpjumper, that we damaged/crashed were well beyond repair. Both were replaced under their crash assist scheme which worked out a lot cheaper than buying a new frame but still left a big hole in the bank balance. I spoke to them direct, Specialized UK, as I was unsure as to keep on riding, and then sorted it when we got back from our Alps holiday with the local store. They did want the old frames back.

AFAIK spesh concept stores are IBD's and not wholly owned by Specialized.
That being the case you need to moan at the shop and get them on the case with Specialized customer service. Your contract is with the shop - it's only 8 months old so you're not claiming on a manufacturers extended warranty over and above what is legally required.

That being said, there is always the chance that it [i]is[/i] impact damage although as said above, I'm surprised in that case that Specialized haven't tried to meet you half way with some kind of crash replacement scheme.

That's kinda the angle I'm going for, as I haven't crashed it, it must of been impact damage, but it should be able to withstand been ridden on or across or down mountainous terrain. If not, it's not fit for purpose and unsuitable for intended / advertised use.

Surely to god there top of the range enduro 'all mountain' bike should be able to withstand knocks and rocks hitting the frame??!!!?

How big and how fast a hit should it be able to take? Sounds like you've just been unlucky tbh, especially as you say there is impact damage and BB areas tend to be some of the strongest parts of a bike!

[quote=Adam@BikeWorks] I'm surprised in that case that Specialized haven't tried to meet you half way with some kind of crash replacement scheme.They have.

I'd probably hold off on the "not fit for purpose" all guns blazing approach :wink

If they're any kind of decent shop it will be better to work with them than against them.

especially as you say there is impact damage

where does the OP say that?

he says there is a crack and that Spesh say it's a result of impact.

pics would help 🙂

I'd probably go nuclear on $pecialized's facebook to be honest, they're a massive company who can afford to go around suing smaller companies over names and all sorts, so they can afford to replace what was a very expensive frame to you that would appear to have genuinely failed.

Personaly if you go in gently not guns blazing it can benift the conversation & move things along.

If all else fails & it sounds like it has it might be worth contacting Spesh USA & give them some speil your a long term spesh customer & want to remain loyal to the brand as your kids ride spesh & future bikes blah blah failing that mention that it wouldn't go down well if it were made very public, i.e all mtb forums etc about the poor warranty & how it might reflect on the brand.

And the onus is on them to prove that it was.

After 6 months the onus shifts to the buyer [url= http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act ]Consumer Rights Act 2015[/url]. We're at 8 months with this, no? But the critical thing is when the fault was found/reported.

scotroutes - Member

They have.

Thats what I get for taking so long to finish my post!

Amedias, true. Thought he'd said something. Basically it's "he said" versus "experts with a very good reputation for warranty claims said". I'm siding with the latter for now

Legend - #teamspecialized

They're still making a decent wedge out of that £1.4k "crash replacement" frame though, eh?

Pictures are up on Specialized uk Facebook under visitors post. Have a gander

We're gonna need a close-up!

Check the Facebook, quiet a closeup there

edit: is it the one that looks like something has tanked off the left hand side of the BB area? Needs a close up

Good luck, I don't think anyone would be happy with a warranty rejecting when you're sure you haven't had a crash/major impact that would have caused it. Pics would definitely help us to see if it's likely impact damage or not. How big is the crack?

[img] ?oh=27719fec7c85e4698aa54a2a41f8a6fc&oe=576486C2[/img]

Speak to Swarf cycles, they can probably repair it!

That's had a whack by the looks of it!

bit.ly/21aEk2H

Be in mind, on the ride this happened I was riding solo, so not even giving it beans!!

That's been hit.

Unless they've taken paint off to inspect, that looks like it's taken a pretty decent wallop!

bennyb - Member
Be in mind, on the ride this happened I was riding solo, so not even giving it beans!!

Please stop this, it means nothing.

[img] [/img]

If it's that large black mark forward of the cranks then it looks (to me, from that photo) like some sort of crash damage

Please stop this, it means nothing.

Just riding along when.....

Just seen the close up - that's been fully ****ted off something!

Edit: you're FB post makes you sound like an absolute dick

I reckon there's enough material there to keep riding it anyway, that BB area is huge 🙂

Watch out for the gnarcore camel towpaths!

Wasn't saying something didn't hit it, my argument is surely it should be able to withstand something like a rock etc catching it.

I sympathise with you but if a rock has flicked up and hit it at speed then you probably wouldn't notice and there's not a lot Specialized can do bar the crash replacement offer, it's mountain biking after all. It also might be a tiny bit of damage which you could continue riding for many years without issue but due to legal issues Spec have to say it is knackered to avoid any future law suits in case you do continue riding it and it fails catastrophically.

If all else fails someone like Adrian at Swarf may be able to repair the frame for you.

Edit: now the pics are on that has taken a wallop off something!

just a scratch. tippex it or put a sticker over it and then forget about it.

maybe.

If it's that large black mark forward of the cranks then it looks (to me, from that photo) like some sort of crash damage

Looks like a big rock strike from something flicked up to me

fathomer - Member
Unless they've taken paint off to inspect, that looks like it's taken a pretty decent wallop!

This.

It's and enduro bike /model. Enduros have rock gardens and obstacles.

STOP IT! Do you like your bike being light? What size/shape/speed of impact should it be able to stand up to?

I've got a DH bike that had a dent put in the downtube within around half a dozen rides. It happens, move on.

thats happened to me and mates on teh first ride of a new bike before. it sucks, but is what it is, impact damage.
Ask them for the crash replacement details and move on.

And it looks like you've hit an obstacle pretty hard, hardly specialized's fault nor can they design a frame for everyone to ride into rocks.

Or as I said above look at the carbon repair people.

Basically it's "he said" versus "experts with a very good reputation for warranty claims said". I'm siding with the latter for now

well I was sitting firmly on the fence until I'd seen pics, now I have, I've fallen on one side of it for sure...

OP, I think you should re-adjust your expectations of normal use.

Get it inspected/fixed by a carbon repair company fit a Rockguardz downtube/bb cover and ride it.

They have been kind enough to offer a replacement . Just short of 1500. Which I haven't got. Just presumed a bike of this caliber which cost me a lot, would of been up to been ridden longer than a year before the frame can't withstand a hit/ deflection

OP, I feel for you as you must be gutted to have damaged your pride and joy. However describing the damage pictured as a crack is, shall we say, stretching it a bit.
Carbon is very strong when loads are in the intended direction but not so good when it gets an impact in the wrong direction. Check out any F1 race for front wings in hundreds of pieces.
You have been unlucky but I think Specialized are in the right on this one and going all over their FB page is probably going to see the offer of a crash replacement withdrawn.

That has taken a hefty rock strike. Either get a new frame, repair it or just ride it. Either way, this is why Rockguardz were made. Certainly saved one of my bikes from a pretty massive rock strike before.

would of been up to been ridden longer than a year before the frame can't withstand a hit/ deflection

It is, as long as you dont **** it into massive rocks.

As Loco says, get it repaired and move on with your life.

would of been up to been ridden longer than a year before the frame can't withstand a hit/ deflection

nonsense, it's not about how old it is when it got hit, it's the fact that it took the hit!
If you'd done that on the ride home from the shop the result would be the same.

I haven't crashed /impacted anything sufficient enough that it even stopped/registered on my ride

I'm at a loss as to how you could not consider that a significant impact, especially not notice it when it happened 😯

You wouldn't try to get BMW to warranty your 8 month old car that got hit by a wild deer though would you?
I do get it's a right pain and the bike cost loads but you really have just been unlucky, like my fictional BMW driving example.

Unfortunately that does indeed look like it has been considerably ****ted.

I recently did battle with Commencal on what I felt was a far more black and white warranty claim and that was a complete mission so good luck with this one.

If you don't want to take their offer of a crash replacement I'd get it to Swarf then get your self one of these...

[url= http://www.rockguardz.com/rockguardz/specialized/enduro.html ]Rockguardz[/url]

Been on rockguardz website. Gonna have to fit one, and ride on! I posted on here to get a people opinion, see if I was been unreasonable wanting it replaced. Seems everyone has different views. Can't afford the crash replacement that's why I was fighting for this. End of the day, I know myself I wasn't riding hard / fast enough for something to impact it enough to cause this sort of damage 🙁

Classic JRA story 😀

[quote=bennyb ]I posted on here to get a people opinion, see if I was been unreasonable wanting it replaced. Seems everyone has different views. TBF, everyone except you seems to have the same view. But only you know what you did/didn't hit with the frame.

I would go for a repair and a rock guard

Don't bother with a respray, just don't wash the mud off

As I mentioned previously (and recommend after seeing the pics), a home insurance accidental damage claim is worth considering if you have the cover.

Seems everyone has different views

Actually I think everyone (except you) has the same view* now you've shown the pics.

I do Feel sorry for you OP, it's gutting when you break a bike, but that's life, whether it's from riding hard, or just bad luck, but that's where the decision about how much to spend on something you can't afford to replace comes in, and whether or not accidental damage insurance is worthwhile in such cases.

Fortunately Carbon is also one of the more repairable materials, if you're happy to carry on riding it then do so, or save for repair/replacement when you can.

* which is the view we would have had from the start if you OP had said "I've ****ted my bike off a rock at some point, here look at the pics"

I think trying to warranty that is taking the piss.

It can be repaired and fit some protection, ride on.

[quote="bennyb"]End of the day, I know myself I wasn't riding hard / fast enough for something to impact it enough to cause this sort of damage 🙁you obviously were riding hard and fast enough to cause that sort of damage.

Maybe you are more gnar than you thought?

That's an easy repair either way. Probably under 100 quid including getting that bit repainted.

Long story short

C'mon, time for the long story. Where and what were you riding?

I've got a carbon Stumpjumper FSR that has taken some fairly hefty knocks from rock strikes to the downtube/BB area while riding.
Some of them have been loud enough to stop a little further along the trail & give the bike a quick once over - rocks whacking carbon fibre make and awfully loud thwack.

The most damage my bike has sustained is a <5mm circular chip to the cosmetic layer - nothing even remotely approaching the damage shown in your detailed photo.

As gutting as it must be, sometimes these things just happen. I'd look into a repair & then get one of those rockguardz.

Looking at the image, are you sure the BB hasn't been scraped/whacked on a rock at the edge of a drop-off or something? That's what it looks like to me rather than a strike by a flying piece of debris.

Off on a slight tangent here, but I'd have thought that the BB area of a bike would be expected to take major rock impacts fairly regularly in the course of normal use and be designed to withstand this.
Begs the question over where normal use ends and crash damage starts.

Can't look at FB at work but from those photos that does look like a hefty rock strike and not a manufacturing fault.

Ive got a Rockguardz downtube protector on my spesh enduro - fit and forget, mine gets battered all the time and no damage

For the sake of about £30 and no hassle

OK that's definitely impact damage vs 'a crack', you could perhaps argue the Enduro model isn't fit for purpose if it's supplied without a rock guard but I doubt you'd get anywhere (certainly not before you ran out of money vs Specialized's lawyers if you even got that far). I do still sympathise, I haven't got a rockguard on my carbon FS, couldn't be bothered to fit one figuring it's probably a rare event - I might do it now though...

OP - First up, it's a lovely (and clearly expensive) bike so can totally see why you're a bit upset about the damage. That said, I think most people, (whilst not all experts) suggest there has been some kind of impact and I would have to agree with that. Having previously owned an Enduro, unfortunately on these frames it's a pretty exposed area and not only prone to strikes by debris or rocks but because the bend in the down tube is forward of the chainset it can also be the first thing to hit a log or similar obstacle if you dont happen to quite get it right, getting over.

If I were you I would check out the repair option and the rock guard as this seems to be the lowest cost, but maybe also go back to spesh and ask how long the crash replacement option is open to you. If, in a few months time you have the money for a new frame and want to go down that route then it's still an option.

Lastly, is it covered under accidental damage away from the home on your house insurance? Could be another avenue to pursue if it is.

This thread has also served to remind me why I'd never buy a mtb on finance

Didn't buy it on finance , but I ain't made of money that I can just scratch off 3.5k and move on.

A- I'm still paying off the 8month old bike

You can see why I might think you did

LoCo - Member]

You wouldn't try to get BMW to warranty your 8 month old car that got hit by a wild deer though would you?
I do get it's a right pain and the bike cost loads but you really have just been unlucky, like my fictional BMW driving example.

Or the deer, who's also been unlucky

legend - Member
This thread has also served to remind me why I'd never buy a mtb on finance

Don't see why finance makes a difference. It's unfortunate either way. But as people have advised, I'd go the repair route.

I'd have thought that the BB area of a bike would be expected to take major rock impacts fairly regularly

And this is why a Yeti has a full length rubber bumper for that area.

Get some glue and go riding.