[Closed] Carrying a Knife in Public?

Depends on whether they like the look of you? Are you black?

I believe the rule is that if it's shorter than 3 inches it's ok to carry. If it's longer it's ok as long as you have a [i]good reason [/i]to carry it. If you need it for whittling sticks or gutting fish or whatever then you are fine, if you say you are carrying it for protection then that's not fine.

Yep - 3"

It's at times like this that I ask myself, "What would Ray Mears do? "

Chop a tree down, make a big ****ing spear & go kill a dinosaur! Thats what Ray would do 😈

[url= http://www.goxplore.net/guides/Knife_law_(UK) ]UK Knife law[/url]

Basically, you can carry a folding pocket knife with a blade below 3".

Never been stopped with my 7"er. Fortunately!

you need to have a good reason (ie work)

i carry a leatherman* most of the time as I need one for work.

*well a Gerber actually

Ray would show Bear how to do it properly with whatever he could find

[i]Ray would show Bear how to do it properly with whatever he could find[/i] in his hotel room

OK fairy nuff, just wondering like. I imagine the Leatherman blades are around 3in....

PP -

from a coppers pov - the guys are right about the 3inch chat, but if it locks or they are suspicious of you they have the power to confiscate it anyway..

if you have a "reasonable excuse" to carry the leatherman ie for the mtb or fishing then you will be fine. if you are in the middle of town without your fishing rod and your claiming to gut fish then you might be in a spot of bother... it carries a 4 year sentence and 80% of people who carry knifes get stabbed by the one they are carrying so worth thinking twice before taking it out or forgetting its in your bag! 🙂

hope this helps answer the q 🙂

[i]80% of people who carry knifes (sic) get stabbed by the one they are carrying [/i]

Really? Do you mean 80% of people who were carrying a knife when they get stabbed, get stabbed with their own knife?

Or are you seriously suggesting that when I go out with my leatherman in my camelbak the chances of me being stabbed with it are 4 in 5? Because if it's the latter then I am a statistical marvel. 🙂

Really? Do you mean 80% of people who were carrying a knife when they get stabbed, get stabbed with their own knife?

You worded it better than me - nothing to worry about when cycling with your leatherman, unless your cycling on the really "rough" trails! 😉

Evil, yeah that's good thanks. I don't have the fishing knife anymore, not been for years now, but the Leatherman does lock....Which is why I was wondering really.

😕

I always used to carry one of these while camping....

[img] [/img]

And often some of these for something to do in the evenings...
[img] [/img]

Not sure if I would any more, while I have entirely innocent use for them and generally its only me and the missus camping I'm not sure PC Plod would accept "camping and entertainment" as a good reason 😀

I'd guess that strictly it would be classed as illegal to carry in public due to it locking...

But with most of this it's just being sensible about it. If you are out on the bike with the Leatherman in your pack, even if you do get searched for some reason you have a reasonable reason to be carrying it.

If i had a knife on me now i'd stab this fekking keyboard stupid s***y excel 2007 I WANT A HORIZONTAL ERROR BAR DAMN YOU!!!

The legalistic answer on this would be:

Sub 3" folding non locking blade - legal to carry, no reasonable excuse needed*
all locking blades, or blades over 3" - reasonable excuse needed (eg, I was going mountainbiking and needed it for cutting back branches etc.)

Leatherman - easy enough to claim reasonable excuse on the fact that you use the pliers/scissors/file for other uses, such as work/mountainbiking/cutting your toenails - this is unlikely to work when nicked outside a nightclub on a saturday night though.

* caveat - anything, including a sub 3" bladed folding knife can be classified as an offensive weapon if the circumstances deem that a jury/magistrate thinks you were likely use it in such a fashion - eg hammer, cricket ball, newspaper (seriously!) Police officer would have no power to "confiscate" something without nicking you for suspected possession of offensive weapon/bladed article.

[url= http://www.derryjournal.com/journal/Court-told-Man-had-offensive.5226614.jp ]Man convicted of carrying an offensive weapon...[/url]

stick them in a fancy wrap, don an apron & tell everyone to f*ck off?

Well it works for Godron Ramsey

"What would Ray Mears do? "

Ray Mears thinks an interfering policeman makes a tasty snack and a store of jerky...

Of course Bear would ask the policeman the way home... 😀

like others said, if the copper is a bastard he can confiscate and/or arrest you, as it has a locking blade and is hence illegal. Yes its stupid, but its the law and its to keep you safe from the commies/terrorists/protestors/hippies (delete as appropriate)

So you best bet is not be lippy (or black) and hope they don't search you.

edit: here you go http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/opinion/comment/law-lock-knives-need-re-examination you can get arrested and convicted under current UK law buying a lock knife from a DIY store and carrying it home to do some decorating. As for saying you use it for work, well you have to convince a court thats the case, not the arresting officer

Wonder if they class women using stilettos over 3" an offensive weapon.

Lost count the number of times I have seen them used as a weapon 😉

- eg hammer, cricket ball, newspaper (seriously!)

🙂

newspaper (seriously!)

EDIT: Or anyone who watches those rubbish Bourne films.

My dad showed me how to do that with a newspaper when I was about 16. Dunno what sort of company he thought I was keeping.

Coffeeking - Gone are the days when teenagers could happily frolic in the woods with their 10-inch Rambo sidearms. Did yours have a hollow shaft where you could keep a sewing kit to stitch up your wounds with?

mine had a hollow handle big enough to hold a clipper lighter, small rizla and a teenth of solid

Did yours have a hollow shaft where you could keep a sewing kit to stitch up your wounds with?

It did. Didnt help though, the only time i ever needed wounds healing when with it was when a mate smacked me in the face with a burning stick and melted half my cheek to a sticky mess! Knew it was a bad burn when it didnt hurt!

I normally carry a 9" folding pruning saw. Very handy when Mr Stick man pulls branches across the trails. Also normally have a felling axe and a mattock in the boot just in case.

The only time I had an issue was when walking out of the woods with the axe over my shoulder. A FC man came over and asked to look at the axe. He advised me it was dangerous and that I should get the head fitted properly as it was loose. He added as I walked away 'Next time please hide it from me when I walk past' Which I thought was quite reasonable.

Gone are the days when teenagers could happily frolic in the woods with their 10-inch Rambo sidearms. Did yours have a hollow shaft where you could keep a sewing kit to stitch up your wounds with?

Yup! 😳

I carry an 8" pruning saw like this in my Camelbak, for essential trail maintenance.

http://www.choiceful.com/choiceful-id-7673-Wilkinson-Sword-Retractable-Pruning-Saw.html

No good for stabbing, but I could cut the victim up into tiny pieces afterwards.

tiny messy pieces

Struggling to work out what you'd use a 3" blade on a bike, though...

Cleaning mud from your cassette?

Dont mess about with 3 inch knives, take a woodchipper - like in Fargo

[img] [/img]

At least it would be legal to carry 🙂

nickc - Member

Struggling to work out what you'd use a 3" blade on a bike, though... nickc - Member

Don't think anyone said they needed one for a bike - the knife part of a Leatherman is hard to remove (and the pliers and others bits ARE useful on a bike)

My alien tool comes with a little locking 1" blade.More than handy in numerous occasions. 3" just seems like showing off 😀

doesn't matter if its 1" or 3" if its locking you can get nicked for it, and end up with a criminal record for carrying an offensive weapon.

its a stupid law, so you just have to hope you don't get searched by a stupid copper.

It wouldn't be a stupid copper, it would be a stupid person carrying a lockable blade in a circumstance where they would find it difficult to reasonably explain why they have it...

thats the whole point, according to the law there isn't any circumstances in which you should have a lock knife on you in a public place

To quote the article:

‘It is an offence to possess “lock knives” in a public place, irrespective of whether the blade is actually locked open at the time.’

and

You could say that you use it in your work, but even this explanation will not vindicate you – after arrest it will be a matter for the courts to decide.

But, as has been mentioned already, the law is flexible enough to take into account circumstances and that anything can be classed as an offensive weapon. Going back to your earlier post it seems you are taking the extent of the law to its literal end - I can say with a reasonable amount of confidence that if I was riding my bike, was knocked off and fell unconscious then when I came round it turned out a policeman was there and had found a lockable blade in my pack (whilst looking for identification) that he would find my circumstances be reasonable.

If I was to be found blind drunk on a Saturday night outside a nightclub, was arrested and found to have the same blade on me (in my pocket), that I would be arrested for having an offensive weapon.

Maybe I have too much respect for our police force, maybe you have too little. I am not sure...

Thing is mastiles people have been (and are) having pen knives and leatherman types tools confiscated (and if you resist/question the police, subsequently arrested) under the current law.

So I suspect you are falling into the trap of if it hasn't happened to *me* then it doesn't happen. Sorta like drivers who speed, but have never got a ticket thinking that speed limits/law's don't apply to them as they have never been caught

richc is far closer to the real state of affairs.

I know of one case involving a czech carpenter who the police decided to stop and search. In his tool bag he had 5 razor sharp chisels. And a small lock knife given to him by his girlfriend for peeling his fruit at lunch. As the lock knife was not a tool necessary for his job he was prosecuted successfully, although at least the court witheld any sentance or fine.

The knife was still in its packaging.

The law is an ass and the CPS are also being pushed by our dear politicians to prosecute to fudge the statistics.

But why are these people doing getting them confiscated? Where are they and what are they doing with them to bring their use to the attention of the police?

How many bikers do you know who have been stopped and searched by the police and having their emergency trail knife confiscated? How many forestry workers have been stopped in their cars on the way home from work and having tools confiscated?

I certainly know how many people I know that have that happen to them.

None.

I know of one case involving a czech carpenter who the police decided to stop and search. In his tool bag he had 5 razor sharp chisels. And a small lock knife given to him by his girlfriend for peeling his fruit at lunch. As the lock knife was not a tool necessary for his job he was prosecuted successfully, although at least the court witheld any sentance or fine.

You can carry a blade/tool as large as you like...only if you can justify it's legit use to your trade. As said before 🙂

I carry a pocket knife, pruning saw, secateurs and sharpened trowel 😉

I used to carry a 4 inch knife on the bike, but hardly used it.

Personally, if you get any bother.. cut a bit of hazel with the secateurs and use that (nice 'n sharp}. Then build a shelter like Bear Grylls.

PMSL

at Fargo... Shredder 🙂

When several years ago I needed to transport an axe from Homebase to a garden I attached it to my rucksack. Not a single driver expressed any for of discontent for my being on the road on my pushbike. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

I give up redthunder, the whole point is no you can't carry any lock knife even if its for work or not. Its an illegal weapon under UK law.

The whole line 'if you can justify it to the Police' is a myth you have to justify it to the court (in its strict interpretation). Just because you haven't been caught doesn't mean that its legal, same with people who haven't got a speeding ticket but go over the limit. It might be a surprise to you, but you can break the law and not get caught

The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.

FFS you can get arrested (and people have been) for carrying a lock knife back from a supermarket/DIY store.

My mother - a meek and mild 70 yr old has [i]twice[/i] tried to get on aeroplanes carrying a 5" lockknife! Amazingly the knife was just taken off her and nothing more was said.

She is a biologist / botanist by trade and always has a knife in her handbag just in case she finds a specimen she wants! We have now persuaded her a swiss army knife will do! No more razer sharp opinal locknifes

No sensible cop would give two hoots about you carrying a Leatherman while you're out on your bike, or fishing.

Can't speak for the jobsworths though I'm afraid 🙂

richc - Member

I give up redthunder, the whole point is no you can't carry any lock knife even if its for work or not. Its an illegal weapon under UK law.

No, its not - it is not a de facto offensive weapon!

The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.

Police have no power to confiscate - copper was a knob, your father should have said "go on, nick me then," and been happy with the compensation for an unlawful arrest

FFS you can get arrested (and people have been) for carrying a lock knife back from a supermarket/DIY store.

I'll wager that IF there were any cases where that was true, it would be because the mags/jury didn't believe a word of it (eg. chav late at night uses the walking home from the shops excuse) or because they copped a caution without arguing their case

I've carried knives most of my life, at least forty five years, including taking penknives to school! I used to carry various Spiderco knives with lovely serrated blades, but I lost a couple, and at fifty quid a pop, it got too pricey, plus I couldn't bear the thought of breaking the tip off a blade digging something out of a tyre. Now I carry a locking utility knife from Maplins, which is one of the most useful tools I have. It gets used for cutting strapping, zip-ties and cardboard boxes at work, I've taken the blade out and used it for scraping sticky labels off things, used the blunt edge as a screwdriver, and it gets called into use regularly to hack overgrowing brambles and rose-briars back when I'm out on the bike, and even riding home yesterday evening, when five foot of rose-briar blew right in front of my face! Considering that most knife crime is carried out with knives knicked from the family kitchen or shoplifted, getting bent out of shape over a knife with a blade an inch long just 'cos it locks is just stupid. The last thing I want is a seriously sharp edge snapping shut on my fingers when cutting something.

But why are these people doing getting them confiscated? Where are they and what are they doing with them to bring their use to the attention of the police?

But some people who the cops don't like (youths, non-whites, stroppy people) would not be treated reasonably even if they were in the same situation as you, and could be prosecuted. So if they get done for it, they're not really being done for the knife, they're getting done for failing the "attitude test".

The reason I found out about this was when my father (who is/was a Mechanic) was seen by a copper peeling an apple with his lockknife and got it confiscated and was told he was lucky not to spend a night in the cells. Even though he was outside a garage and it was a tool required for his job.

Come on! What mechanic needs a lock knife to do his job?

More to the pint, WHY bother peeling an apple, FFS!

😉

Even better point! 😆

You can't peel an apple with a torque wrench, duh! 😀

I used to carry a leatherman whilst out on the bike, until the police started carrying out random searches at Victoria Station.
Was worried that I'd not be believed so stopped carrying it.
Now lives in the glove compartment of my car, which is probably even dafter, thinking about it.

When I was a kid in the Scouts carrying a sheath knife was positively encouraged. My dad bought me my first one when I was 11, to teach me how to use one responsibly.
I haven't stabbed anyone yet.

I haven't stabbed anyone yet.

There's still time!
😉

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3613174/The-policeman-found-my-penknife.-Youre-going-down-mate-he-said.html ]The policeman found my penknife. 'You're going down, mate,' he said[/url]

You can lead a horse to water and all that.....

Did you read the lawgazette article Zulu-Eleven? as it sounds remarkably like you are a copper who doesn't actually understand the law. Unless you know more than about the law than criminal lawyers, in which case you really should be writing articles for the law society and letting the Home secretary and her advisers know that they don't understand the legislation they wrote and put in place..

letting the Home secretary and her advisers know that they don't understand the legislation they wrote and put in place..

That article is confusingly written. It says:

"A while back I asked the Home Office to clarify any ambiguity arising from whether or not a lock knife was illegal under this statute and it replied: ‘It is an offence to possess “lock knives” in a public place, irrespective of whether the blade is actually locked open at the time.’ "

but then right after it says:

"There are few ways to explain yourself out of lock knife possession in a public place. Unlike ‘reasonable excuse’ in the Prevention Of Crimes Act 1953, you have to show ‘good reason’ (section 139 of the 1988 act), which has a much tighter interpretation."

So actually by his own words the first statement by the Home Office is wrong: it's not that it's illegal to carry one, it's illegal to carry a locking knife unless you have "good reason" to carry one (whatever good reason is, that's a different discussion).

But afaics, if what he is saying is right, it does mean the "blanket OK" for 3 inch knives wouldn't apply to a 3 inch locking knife.

also, the "folding" part is confusing, because the ex-cop's article in the Law Gazette sounds like he's referring to Stanley knives, but they don't fold.

:confused:

@richc

I did'nt say lock knife.

*

RichC

Get thyself over to the following - far more extensive and far more complex that a pissy little poorly written alarmist article on Law Gazette

CPS Charging standards:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a07

Bladed article caselaw:
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Possession_of_an_article_with_a_blade_or_point

Offensive weapon caselaw:
http://www.wikicrimeline.co.uk/index.php?title=Possession_of_an_offensive_weapon

As a basic rule - any knife is perfectly legal with good reason/reasonable excuse, there are additional statutory excuses such as work. As always, things depend on the circumstances as a whole in the individual case, but the caselaw links on wikicrimeline are pretty reflective of what you're likely to get done for. - at the same time, as a basic rule, carrying a sub 3" non locking knife is lawful at all times without excuse, but again circumstances may dictate that it could be found to be an offensive weapon. General advice therefore would be to carry only a non locking knife, unless you've got a reason to be carrying something else.

and FYI, I'm not a policeman - but an ex gamekeeper who spent years carrying round guns, knives, axes and assorted pointy things for various reasons and didn't once get into trouble with the police for doing so, not even for forgetting that I had live rifle ammo in my bag when getting on a flight (oops!) - but guess what, I didn't feel the need to carry a machete around in the vicious urban jungle when going shopping or to the pub in the evening - (possibly why I never had a problem with the police over it)

the problem isn't knives, its townies with knives ;o)