Car questions again – RWD in general and bike rack fuel economy this time..

Morning

Following on from a previous car related thread, I’m still considering my options for a “new” car.

I don’t drive particularly enthusiastically but am wondering in general whether moving to a RWD car requires a change in approach?

Also, does anyone know what sort of effect on MPG something like a Saris Bones (with bikes obviously) has when sat on the back of a saloon car? I assume this is a better option than a roof mounted rack?

Final question – for the same money would you choose a 4 year old car with 50k on the clock or a 5 year old with 40k on it (BMW) ?
ta again

whether moving to a RWD car requires a change in approach

only in low traction and/or high engine or road speed situations. day to day you won’t really notice.

rear mount is fairly minimal affect, roof mount really hits mpg.

Probably get more toys on the newer car 🙂 and wouldn’t normally drive a beamer.

Bones is better than a roof but would consider a tow bar mounted one for ease of use – wheel mounts better for odd shaped frames.

Well the two cars are identical in colour and spec. It’s purely the age and milage that are different.

Is one year newer better than 10k on the clock? Both will come with a 1 yr warranty ..

which has the better service history……

id buy which ever has the most complete.

Budget on winter tyres for the RWD car or you won’t be going anywhere this winter. If a BMW the fuel economy will be appalling with a bike rack on or off (even the diesels).

which has the better service history……

id buy which ever has the most complete.

This.

I used to drive a Cooper S with a Saris – now, I’m trying to remember, but I’m sure it knocked around 4-5 mpg off (displayed on the trip computer, not calculated by me though). When driving a later 1-series diesel (118d), a roof-mounted would knock around 8-10mpg off – so on a motorway – from normally 50ish mpg to low 40s.

I would still go with a roof mounted and live with the difference. They’re so much easier to manage with than a Bones, which in itself is very well designed for the job it does – but some FS and even shortarse HT frames can struggle to get on to the Bones. Then, there’s getting the tailgate open with bikes on the back, constant re-tightening of straps when on a long schlep, etc etc. Also, you have the security of knowing your bikes are locked onto a roff mounted rack…not that I’d leave them on one for a long period unattended, but just for services, paying for fuel, the odd coffee stop…etc etc.

EDIT:

If a BMW the fuel economy will be appalling with a bike rack on or off (even the diesels).

Really? Our 118d was superb for fuel economy. Mind you, with bikes on the roof, it took a hammering for sure.

Both cars are from an approved used BMW centre so have perfect history. There really is nothing to choose from them apart from age and milage!

Thanks for thoughts about rwd and rack though.. winter tyres eh, pricey :-/

I’ve been driving RWD cars for years now, and unless the car your buying is a fairly high performance model and/or does not have the usual mod cons of traction/stability control, then you dont really need to modify your driving style for RWD.

You’ll be fine through winter as well, just drive to the conditions and you’ll be fine. If you get a lot of snow it will stop you getting out, but it’d probably also stop a front wheel drive car too. I keep a set of snow socks in the boot to act as a get me home option if I really need to use them, I’ve not needed them yet, but I guess it does depend where you live. You do see lots of RWD cars stuck spinning the wheels, but I think that in a lot of these instances a little better technique (ie put in a higher gear and be gentle with the throttle) would have got them moving. Winter tyres will make a massive difference though, and if you can afford them are a good option, but not essential IMO – I dont have any.

I’ve never been stranded yet, in over 15 years of high performance RWD cars (Lotus elise, Honda S2000, BMW M3)

I’ve got a towbar mounted rack and makes no difference on my RWD car.
Doesn’t seem like there’s much to choose between the cars. I’d go for the one which has had the last service done most recently – i.e. longer interval to next service.

Flaperon –
Member
Budget on winter tyres for the RWD car or you won’t be going anywhere this winter. If a BMW the fuel economy will be appalling with a bike rack on or off (even the diesels).

That’s a lot of bollocks for one short post. If the winter is as bad as two years ago then yes, winter tyre wills be a must. Last winter, not so much.

As for the fuel economy comment……. eh?

re the two cars, sorry I should clarify – the older car (with 40k) is about £1k more than the newer one with 50k, for some reason! What I meant to say is is it worth paying £1k more for 10k miles?!

What I meant to say is is it worth paying £1k more for 10k miles?!

This is where you have to sit down with whoever’s selling you the car and find out what it will need doing in the next, say, 20000 miles. Cam Belt? Major component replacement? How are the tyres? Don’t be afraid to ask the dealer what the thread depth is on each. When is the next service due? Blac blah blah. And don’t be afraid to ask for at least 10% off the window price…if he doesn’t like it, leave your number and take a stroll.

Are the Spec’s the same?

I personally would go with the car thats been serviced more and serviced more at an official dealer. Official dealers GIVE you the bill, they always err on the side of caution and will replace parts at the previous owners largese.

When are they both due their next service? When was the last one? It may be a major service next – i.e you may end up paying circa £500 for its next service.

How many miles do you drive a year? If less than 15,000 I wouldn’t bother with a diesel. It doesn’t make sense.

I’ve only seen one of the cars quickly last night, which I’m due to test drive this afternoon. I’ve not yet seen the other one as they need to drag it out of storage.

The spec’s are identical – both 320i SE in montego blue (E92). They look luverlly

I do indeed, need to go through service details with them too.

I did consider diesel but tbh it’s at least a 2k premium over petrol and I’m not sure that given the miles I drive (about 10k per year) it would represent a saving over the period I’ll own the car.

oh and I did ask for 10% off and got about 4%! Tbh, it’s not actually a bad price and only slightly more than equivelent cars sold privately (and without a year’s warranty).

It’s only an “option” at the moment … 😀

Rear mounted bike racks hammer economy on motorways.

We drove to France last year in a 1 series BMW, normally on long journeys I would easily get >60mpg. On the drive to France (with a heavily laden car) and two bikes on a tow bar mounted rack we averaged 42mpg. Mate in his similarly economical Fabia VRs with rear mounted rack and two bikes had very similar.

As for RWD – you won’t notice any difference day to day, but it will be crap in the snow. Buy some snow socks and leave then in the boot.

RRR you can also play hardball on price.

Also check the tyres -all the same brand? Any budgets in there and how much wear? I imagine at min 40k the tyres would be on their second sets by now and so could be on Wing long’s etc. Always go for quality rubber on the rear of RWD IMO.

I know it’s all part of what these guys do but they really didn’t seem too fussed about selling it.

They said they’d do it for a £50 less than we agreed but wouldn’t sort out the minor scuffs on the bumper!

I suppose being a huge company (Sytner BMW) they’re not as fussed as small independents ?

I have a Z4 Coupe and use a Saris Bones rack on it. Its not an ideal situation but it works. The rack will damage the paint even if your are careful with it. I don’t know what affect the rack has on MPG but it does cause a lot of drag, so much so that it snapped the plastic (not the strap) which attaches to the seat tube. The bikes are also perpendicular to the direction of travel which will cause more drag than a roof rack. On my car you can only fit one bike on with both wheels, if you need to get two on, the wheels need to come off. The Saris Bones also struggles quite a bit to fit some full suspension bikes as the straps are designed to fit the top tube which on certain bikes may have the shock in the way. If you can fit a roof rack I would.

Moving to rear wheel drive only needs a change in approach if you are really pressing on otherwise its no different. Driving in snow just requires driving really smoothly and maintaining momentum or as Julians suggest, steep gradients should be avoided. We’ve had two bad winters recently and everyone has become paranoid about snow, last year was fine. I’d just keep some socks of chains in the boot for emergencies.

As for choosing which car there’s not much in it, go off the condition or which ever has the best history.

I suppose being a huge company (Sytner BMW)

Oh hello. You’d probably get a decent one years warranty from them whereas an indie would probably only go to 3months…….

Hora, yes I’ll get one years warranty, european breakdown cover and MOT cover (covers costs of unexpected MOT repairs).

Driving in snow just requires driving really smoothly and maintaining momentum or as Julians suggest, steep gradients should be avoided

Hmm this could be interesting what with living in Sheffield (the city ground to a complete standstill in the snow last year).

re roof racks etc – does anyone know of a big plastic sock sort of thing to stuff the bike in?

The bike would fit in the boot as the rear seats fold down. I would however, have to provide guarantees to the wife in terms of keeping mud out of the car!

What utter bollocks. Sorry, I owned two MX5’s and drove them in snow over the tops, M62 and around Huddersfield – I NEVER had any issues! If they are WIDE tyres possibly harder but its compound and tyre type and driving style FIRST before FWD/RWD etc…

I also drove a Peugeot 107 on sheet ice and deep snow last winter on Eco tyres. Not once did I pap myself.

I think the ‘BMW’ issue comes from people beleiving the BMW hype that the car will be in control/sort them, spinning the wheels and running Conti standard tyres in winter.

Not read the rest but E46 330i ’52 semi-auto here, with two thule racks on the roof.

Driving to Coedy from London and back with 2 bikes on the roof a passenger and all our gubbins for a long weekend and I averaged 26.8mpg.

Normal average mpg is 31 – with the rack still on, no bikes. (The slight increase over the published mileage is due to a K&N filter in the standard air box).

Edit: – OP, you’ve seen it of course.

Edit: – Hora, you’ve mused about buying it, twice now. Still no reponse from you…

Edit: – I did go to the effort of pumping the tyres up to the recommended heavy load pressures.

Hi Kryton, indeed I have.

Will buying a BMW make me an instant c*** on the roads? :/

The paperwork, its definitely not the HG/head- official paperwork from BMW or a handwritten note from an indie? They are made from aluminium hence the worry.

The last part isn’t accusing etc- its just a worry for me.

RopeyReignRider – Member
Hi Kryton, indeed I have.

Will buying a BMW make me an instant c*** on the roads? :/

In everyones elses eyes yes, but you’ll have the satifaction of the driving the ultimate driving machine and being in “Joy” 😉

The trick to loving a BMW is to drive one, is the real diffrentiator (seriously).

hora – Member
The paperwork, its definitely not the HG/head- official paperwork from BMW or a handwritten note from an indie? They are made from aluminium hence the worry.

The last part isn’t accusing etc- its just a worry for me.

Its not a BMW dealer it’s and indie, and an indie with BMW qualified staff, not handwritten but printed properly. I’d be happy to show you. And no it wasn’t the HG – that was my mistake.

Will buying a BMW make me an instant c*** on the roads?

No those type of people are naturally cocks in themselves already – its not the car. I knew a bloke who was a ‘divide and conquer’/hard nosed political ‘player’ etc in the work place..

I found out he drove an Audi. normal folk drive Audi’s but the above tend to think ‘German engineering, precision and awesomeness- thats me that is’. As well.

re: rear bike racks
If your car is reasonably big then the bikes don’t stick out the sides.

I have a tow-bar mounted platform rack and my diesel Mazda6 is pretty wide, so the difference in fuel economy is 3 or 4mpg on a long run on varied roads.
If I was tanking it down the outside lane of the M1 for 200miles then it might be different.

duplicate post

What makes you think my current M reg Astra isn’t the Ultimate Driving Machine?

Ultimate Driving Machine

BMW stopped using that tag line years ago, just after they realised that it was incorrect 😉

hora – Member

What utter bollocks. Sorry, I owned two MX5’s and drove them in snow over the tops, M62 and around Huddersfield – I NEVER had any issues! If they are WIDE tyres possibly harder but its compound and tyre type and driving style FIRST before FWD/RWD etc…

I also drove a Peugeot 107 on sheet ice and deep snow last winter on Eco tyres. Not once did I pap myself.

I think the ‘BMW’ issue comes from people beleiving the BMW hype that the car will be in control/sort them, spinning the wheels and running Conti standard tyres in winter.

I think the issue is that BMWs tend to be rather heavy and often run big alloys with wide low profile tyres (gotta make your 318d look ‘sporty’ of course 😆 ). Other RWD cars seemed to be getting about okay, but I nearly got wiped out a few times by BMWs and they seemed to be getting stuck on every minor gradient round here (Essex, so not exactly mountainous!)

The trick to loving a BMW is to drive one, is the real diffrentiator (seriously).

Seriously? I couldn’t wait to get rid of mine – hated it. Uncomfortable seats and driving position, stupidly overpriced run flats, seriously over rated and massive depreciation.

Other than that, it was one of the best cars I’ve ever owned 🙄

Ah yes but most of the massive depreciation has already happened for the ones I’m looking at.. slows down quite a bit from now on it seems!

RRR, I rekon the newer car for 1k less.

It will always be the newer car & with your moderate milage a year will still be quite low milage in 3 years.

FWIW, We have a RWD auto, when it snows it stays firmly on the drive… mainly because I live on big hill & its just about impossible to get out of my road. Maybe I should think about some winter tyres for this year.

Echo the above thoughts that rwd not really any worse in snow, you just have to have a bit more conviction. I would quite happily get up hills in my MX5 with wide low profile tyres on that people in fwd cars couldnt even get up.

Will you notice difference fwd to rwd, well probably not in a lower powerd 3 series.

RWD driven well ie getting the power down out of a corner gives you a feeling that no fwd car can (regardless of the power)

I’d prefer petrol over diesel. ALL diesels deliver power in a lump, and once you get out of the throttle take an age to get back the power (relative) petrol allows you to balance the power much more finely, which is what you want with rwd.

There is no noticeable difference going to a rwd from previous cars for normal driving, but if you drive hard and fast then I think you will appreciate the difference.
With regard to carrying bikes, I just use a Ground Effect Body Bag and a pair of wheel bags. Does not take long and easy to get the bike in and out.
I’m guessing that the options on the car will be making the difference. Just because they are both se, means very little in reality. I had an E92 325ise, but it had 18″ alloys, sport suspension, full leather, sports seats, iDrive. Still an se, but with a lot of expensive extras.
On an E92, the biggest issue for resale I think is lack of iDrive. It’s not ‘worth it’ per se, but not having it makes them much less desirable, as would leather and larger wheels (18s most preferable I think) etc.
Life left in tyres is also important consideration. If it is still on runflats, they will be expensive to replace. Think I paid about £260 to replace a single front one with a bulge.

Final question – for the same money would you choose a 4 year old car with 50k on the clock or a 5 year old with 40k on it (BMW) ?

No way of knowing, but I’d be wondering whether the older car (8k a year) was driven around town whereas the 4 year old (12.5k a year) had done a few more long distance trips.

As I said, no way of knowing, but I’d have a think about it if it was me.