Can't do a manual / drop off – is my frame too big?

Hello,

I’ve watched the youtube manual/drop off lessons and damn it I just can’t do them!

I’m 5’9″ but have a long torso and short-medium legs and arms.

The bike is a 28″ Carrera Vulcan, I assume that’s decent enough for the problem not to be that the front of the big is just too heavy?

I also feel my breath is constricted due to being hunched over.

Do you think I should move down to a 16″ frame? Halfords say that’s only relevent for people 5’1″-5’6″.

Thanks,

Poiu

28″ sounds *quite* large ( 😉 )but I suspect the issue is technique rather than frame size

5’9″ tall on a 28″ frame.

I think you probably need to be able to reach the pedals to manual, but an expert will be along shortly.

I’d say 28″ is definitely too big!!

Ooer missus.

The bike is a 28″ Carrera Vulcan

Oh crap, batman.

Do you think I should move down to a 16″ frame?

Loosing 12″ off a frame O.o

I’m presuming you meant you currently have a 18″ frame?

I agree with wwaswas, but think you mean 18″……

The bike is a 28″ Carrera Vulcan

No, it isn’t.

Where are you measuring from/to to get 28″?

I’ve watched the youtube manual/drop off lessons and damn it I just can’t do them!

Find some grass and spend an hour trying to find the balance point on your bike.

You may be surprised just how far back it is, and therefore how far back you need to move your weight for drop offs and manuals.

I’ve shifted to a new frame quite recently and I am still astonished at how far back my weight needs to be to unweight the front wheel.

It will take time, but eventually your body will move to the sweet spot without the need for thought.

Ah yes I meant current frame is 18″.

I was riding a 16″ frame and it felt too small for me and I’m 5’6″. I moved to a 17.5, it was different, and at first I couldn’t do manuals at all. I found it was a matter of adjusting technique.

You might need to play around with riding position, saddle height/angle etc, as is often the case with a new bike.

I imagine it is technique but if you do feel yourself stretched out on it you could perhaps make some cockpit changes short stem wide bar?

you’re not committing to the force needed to get the bike up onto the back wheel. go along slowly on grass and roll your whole bodyweight back to pull the bars up. don’t be afraid of going over the back. you’ll get the hang of it.

Surely we are puhing on the bars to get the front wheel up?

Move weight back push forwards and upwards on the bars while pushing through the pedals right?

Ignoring the silly frame size, that’s clearly a typo.

The weight shift required for drops offs is no where near the same amount you need for a manual. I can do drops fine but still struggle to hold a manual for more than a second.

For drop offs practice going off a kerb and landing with two wheels then progress to bigger and bigger heights.

for manauls, the main input comes from your legs use arms to stabilise and help the front end to come up. start legs bent and thrust from hips and extend you legs to push the pedals forward shifting you weight back.

Preload your bike like a hadouken. Body weight presses down (your fork will compress a bit), move your body rearward over the back axle and push the bars out forward. There is no pulling involved, only push.

Dropping your heels can help a bit to shove the bike out but it’s easy to over-shove. A shorter, smaller bike is easier to do this on but it’s the weight shift backward that does it.

HADOUKEN!

I thought something similar, bike too big, impossible to manual, chainstays too long… blah blah blah.

10 mins with Ed Oxley and I went from not being able to get the front wheel more than an inch or two off the ground to sitting on my arse in lee quarry after looping out, twice.

I’d DEFINITELY recommend trying it on grass 😀

Preload your bike like a hadouken

Love this!

Preload your bike like a hadouken

ha ha that’s genius! That is a pretty good description

so what happens if i dragon punch instead?

I thought something similar, bike too big, impossible to manual, chainstays too long… blah blah blah.

10 mins with Ed Oxley and I went from not being able to get the front wheel more than an inch or two off the ground to sitting on my arse in lee quarry after looping out, twice.

I’d DEFINITELY recommend trying it on grass

Yes, same here. Spent months trying to manual without ever getting the wheel more than a few inches off the ground. Five minutes after being shown how to do it on a skills course (mine was at Glenmore lodge) I’m laying on my back thinking “well I guess it’s not the bike then”!

Still haven’t managed to loop out on my new 29er yet, but I’m working on it 🙂

How long is your stem? Getting a shorter stem will be much cheaper than getting a new frame

@Herman Shake: You win by providing the wackiest but also the most perfect answer

Hadouken!!!

Everything comes from dynamically weighting and unweighting the bike. Manual, front wheel lift, bunny hop, drops, jumps – all the same concept.

Love that Hadouken explanation, btw!!

Agree with dantsw13 that sounds a bit like a ‘Jedi’ explanation!! If Martyn Ashton can do trials on a road bike it is probably a case of skill not tools!

osteo1 – Member
Agree with dantsw13 that sounds a bit like a ‘Jedi’ explanation!! If Martyn Ashton can do trials on a road bike it is probably a case of skill not tools!

When I got back into MTB i bought the white Carrera fury in 18 and found it a bit unwieldy as though I was too far forward and perched on top of the bike, I didnt have a clue about cockpit setup then but a shorter stem probably would have made the world of difference.
Since I now have more skill/confidence and a bit more know how i realise how wrong that setup was, all bikes since have had better standover, shorter stems wider bars and more of a “sit in” feel that makes me feel more at one with the bike

EDIT – I still cant manual to save my life

I may have been to Hertfordshire for some training!! Did a course with Ed Oxley at GreatRock in Hebden Bridge too. Both were very good, with subtle differences, and both improved my riding no end.

Had a Jedi masterclass too massive improvement, he even had me manual over a tabletop! So my advice would be to get some professional help!!

Ok I know this is a week old, but I had to revisit this thread for a few moments.

After years of not being able to manual, and barely getting my front wheel more than 6 or 8 inches of the ground using brute strength, two minutes after using Herman Shakes explanation and I’ve got the front right up and I’m manualing, a short manual but and actual honest to goodness manual! Obviously I need to practice more to get some more distance out of it.

Oh and must try harder to not shout hodouken while doing it.

I have dreams where I can manual over pump tracks. Always get really disappointed when I wake up.

I thought it was just me…! Hate waking up from that dream…

I’m bald and sometimes have dreams where I have hair. It feels pretty good so I have a little cry when I wake up. 😛

Herman Shake take a bow. You Sir are the man! Brilliant answer.