Canon 7D DSLR camera and Digital Rev

Oops.wearher sealed is definitely a pro!

Never said 550d was poor did I? Just saying the same image quality can be had for half the price.

Never said 550d was poor did I? Just saying the same image quality can be had for half the price.

Ah fair point – was listed under cons tho…

No good having all the bells and whistles if you can’t get them to work, is it?

those pics of sunsets and bikes hanging in trees(with the background made black and white) are totally achievable in manual mode.
just sayin like.

I have a Canon 7d and a 5d (mark 1 aka 5Dc on forums). The first is a crop camera, the second a full frame.

I think it would help you to have some idea of what you want to take photos of.

If its slower moving, daylight stuff such as fine art, landscapes, close ups of flowers – getting a cheaper camera and a better range of glass/lenses is your best bet.

If you want to take photos of running kids, fast moving animals, sports or stuff in lower light the 7d will be more helpful. It has a better and faster focusing system than the camera bodies at a lower price. It also has a more robust shutter mechanism based on a miniature version of the more expensive full frame camera mechanisms. This gives it a high continuous shutter speed that will not trash the camera.

I have had many cameras over many years – film, digital, compact, SLR. I had to carry the manual around for the 7d for quite a bit as it has lots of options and its quite hard to memorise some of them. Dont let this put you off – it can be simplified and as you say you can grow into it. I am mainly mentioning this as I felt a bit overwhelmed by the camera to start despite being experienced – but it turned out lots of people have felt the same – so don’t let it intimidate you. You can always stick with ‘program mode’ or auto to start with.

I would have a word with your relative about advice on lenses – they are more important than camera bodies. I have several Canon EOS lenses over 15 years old, the oldest is I think 25 if I have read the date code correctly. I also have recent lenses but use them less as they are zooms and the sharpness of fixed focal length is better. If you buy good lenses they will follow your hobby over years as you wear out, upgrade or dump camera bodies along the way. Digital camera bodies are essentially disposable, lenses are for keeps so are worth the bigger financial investment.

Its too hard here to go into the advantages and reasons for lens selection. If you want to get serious about this I would say get a cheap ‘kit lens’ if you want a zoom, but for better learning I would say get a body on its own and the cheap 50mm 1.8. Its a good lens, it will teach you lots about depth of field, low light and will show you what a sharp lens can produce. Once you have seen sharp, you will not want to compromise. Once you know more, then splash out on nice glass. Its easy to be disappointed in cheap glass and blame yourself or the camera.

If you think there is any chance of ever moving to a full frame camera, steer clear of the EF-S lenses where possible and go for the EF mount as it will save you a lot of money and inconvenience later on.

Also check out Nikon, they have some very nice cameras just released in the last couple of weeks at very good prices.

Sorry, this is a bit of a random batch of advice. I would check out these web sites for more info – they all do forums and kit reviews.

http://photo.net/community/%5B/url%5D
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php?s=70254290452777cb93762ead638e9e99
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/%5B/url%5D
http://www.dpreview.com/%5B/url%5D

And this is free to post on (you can join later if you wish)once you have your camera. Its based in Edinburgh I think but is multinational so you get photos from all over the world.
http://blipfoto.com/%5B/url%5D

thanks for the advice midnighthour, all makes sense and is roughly what im thinking about at the moment.

I probably wont be changing to full frame in the near future as I cant really justify the extra cost. Things may change though and I will bear that in mind.

Info on 7d and photo samples can be found at the address below. Use the ‘search forum’ to find threads and picture examples of other canon cameras – they have a separate thread for almost everything! They also post real world images from loads of specific lenses so you can compare them.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1154313&highlight=7d

The full frame I have is a nice camera and they are going at about £550 second hand now. Its a lovely friendly camera to use (that has nothing to do with the frame size, just as a nice design of object).

Maybe 2nd hand (any camera) is worth considering for a test run, then buy different later.

I have just replaced the shutter in my 5d – its the third shutter as it was a pro wedding camera in the past, then owned by a friend. It takes a lot of hammering and has been very very reliable. The shutters are designed to be replaced at around 100,000 shots though many go on beyond that. I have put about 10,000 images through it myself since purchase. It was £200 to replace the shutter but is worth it to me despite the age of the camera. The shutter did not fail but I knew it was beginning to wear so I sorted it.

If you look at older cameras at all, don’t be too put off by snobbery or comments about being old fashioned, old technology or rubbish back screens. As long as your histogram can be seen, you don’t really need much more detail. Its getting the exposure right and the overall framing, unless you do macro which is fiddly to focus. The 7d was bought new, but I often take the 5d instead just because its such a nice physical object and more relaxing to use than the 7. They both have their advantages. A lot of my lenses were 2nd hand, the oldest being as said, I believe about 25 and they have been great and reliable. Lots of web sites have good useful info but always be aware of gear snobs and those who have to have the latest. Good photos are in the glass and in the photographers head, not in the chequebook.
Good luck with your photos, its fun!

Another thought is that, given the sudden surprise of the new Nikons (mmm, Canon must be worried – better specs, lower prices than Canon equivalents) there is always the possibility Canon may need to re-evaluate their body pricing soon anyway.

Nikon could have them on the run unless Canon has a surprise of their own they can bring forward pdq.

thanks midnighthour! I’m not in any rush to buy as stuck working abroad until end of the month. I have an end of contract bonus which I will use on camera and lenses as its somethimg I’ve wanted to get into for years but never got round to it. Can you recommend any decent websites for 2nd hand gear other than e-bay?
Currently looking at 70-200mm lenses. As a novice and amateur would I see any benefit from going for the higher end ones with the ‘IS’ or ‘IS II’? If I could find one of them 2nd i might go for one? New ones here:http://www.hdewcameras.co.uk/telephoto-lens-49-c.asp

I havent really considered any other brands yet due to recommendations of friends who already have Canaons. I know there might be an element of bias there so might be worth looking into Nikon.
Im also aware the 7D has been out for a while and there are rumors of a 7D mark II which might drop the price of the 7D.
Which Nikon would be comparable to the 7D?
Things is I have a week in cornwall next month which would give me time to play and experiemnt with the camera whilst shhooting some nice scenery (plus the father in law will be there to give pointers- ex-pro photographer)

Hang on, will get a copy of a magazine to see re 2nd hand. Will post again soon.

ok cheers. ill pick up your message in the morning its bed time where im at

I have personally used
http://www.acecameras.co.uk/
http://www.bathphotooptics.co.uk/
and found them both to be very helpful.

In the back of Amateur Photographer http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/%5B/url%5D

They list

http://lcegroup.co.uk
http://mifsuds.com
http://www.ffords.com/%5B/url%5D

All those above have been advertising for years. LCE has shops all over the place too.

I cant recall the ones below, but that only means I don’t look at the back of the mag very often and cannot remember for how long they have advertised.

Ask on forums for the reliability of suppliers – people are usually happy to comment.

http://www.camtechuk.com
http://cameraworld.co.uk

nice one cheers

Currently looking at 70-200mm lenses. As a novice and amateur would I see any benefit from going for the higher end ones with the ‘IS’ or ‘IS II’

It depends 🙂

If you’re taking photos of bikes doing stuff then both are fairly pointless (well not entirely, but more often than not). The IS stands for image stabilsation (The II for version 2), this lets you use the lens at a slower shutter speed than you otherwise could (rule of thumb is 1/focal length if you want a good chance of a sharp image). What it doesn’t do is freeze the action – so if you want to do that (e.g. bike photos from relatively close up) then it’s a bit pointless. If you want to freeze the action get a faster lens (e.g. F2.8) or a camera that provides good photos at high ISO speeds. Both of those will let you use a higher shutter speed.

I have a 70-200 F4L without IS cause I only really use it for action shots.

“Currently looking at 70-200mm lenses. As a novice and amateur would I see any benefit from going for the higher end ones with the ‘IS’ or ‘IS II’?”

Canon do 4 of these lenses.
f4.0 70-200 – approx £500
f4.0 70-200 IS – approx £1000
f2.8 70-200 – approx £1000
f2.8 70-200L IS – approx (trying to recall..) £1800 (?) I think this last one is the one with version I and II.

I don’t have one of these myself but have read around a bit as it was either one of these, a 100-400L IS or a 70-300L IS. My most recent purchase just before Christmas and a big extravagance from my redundancy money. I am hoping to make some money back with it at some point.

First off the f2.8 are both very big and very heavy. Even bigger than my 100-400. The IS version is very very popular with natural light wedding photographers and for use in churches where flash is not allowed. They are also, being fast lenses good for indoor sports and concerts etc. If neither applies to you, maybe look at the f4.0.

If you want low light fast action but cant afford the f2.8 IS then the non IS version would be better than the f4.0 – as it will stop action/moment in the way the f4.0 is not able to.

I would strongly suggest if you have the money, to for for an IS especially if you are going to buy a crop camera. On a crop my 100-400 is the equivalent of 600mm long. Such increase give a LOT of potential for camera shake on a 70-200 as well. These things are hard to hold steady. Look up tips for snipers and suchlike for tips on being steady. No thats not a joke, it really will help you get a perfect sharp image. At these prices, sharp is what we are definitely aiming for. Blur from tremor or movement is out 🙂

Lots of people see the 70-200 as a good walk around lens. I also use my 100-400 for such things, though it is big and heavy. I get extra reach with it for picking of details of landscapes, architecture and for using its shallow depth of field for ‘isolating’ people, plants etc against a blurred out background. It is not just for things ‘at a distance’.

When you are in the UK go to Jessops as they have revamped their shops so that you can wander in and hold all their stock and they have a good range of lenses. It caused me to choose the 7d over the 60d as I found it easier to hold and I knew it would be getting a lot of use on a daily basis. It also caused me to choose the 100-400 over the 70-200 as the extra reach was worth the extra weight. I live with the weight, but then I am fairly committed to using cameras and carrying kit.

I would not overly recommend actually buying from Jessops (sadly) as they have a long term reputation as not being very well staffed or priced. I hope this improves given the commitment they are showing to imaging at the moment with the store re-vamps.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/08/Nikon-D800-D800E-review-published

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/24/Nikon-D3200-preview-samples-gallery

These will give you a starting point for checking Nikon. They will be mentioned on the sites already given to you as well. Try the news section of DPReview as they may list more released cameras of interest.

Agree on the big and heavy thing – I got a 2.8 to start with and sent it back as i’d never had used it. The 70-200 F4 is relatively light.

Advantage of Jessops is that you can test the lens you’re buying in the shop – they’ll often price match as well if you ask the manager.

If your looking for a nice light sharp 70 /200 f4 non IS
Or a 135mm f2 or 300mm f4IS
After next thursday there all for sale as well as a few canon 1d2,s and probably a couple of 580ex flashes

If you know lots of people with Canon and they have interesting/quality lenses they are willing to lend you (make sure there is insurance, some of them are expensive to drop or repair) then you may find that facility causes you to go for Canon.

I chose canon as the range of lenses they made for my purposes was cheaper, broader, there was plenty of 2nd hand choice (Nikon lens mounts are more of a complexity on older lenses) and the 2 tier price system for consumer and pro lenses gave me a lot of upgrading options. Some of their consumer lenses are of high standard. My favorites in this range are

28mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4 (1.4 is a fragile lens, the focus track distorts easily, killing the motor), 50mm 2.3 macro, 85mm 1.8 and the 100mm macro 2.8. These are all EF mount so can be used on anything Canon.

I mostly carry the 28, 50 macro (slightly noisy but a very nice lens) and the 100-400 at the moment. I have 2 mid range zooms as well but use them much less.

You might also want to check out lenses from Tamron, Tokina and Sigma as much of their stuff is now excellent, comparable to and sometimes better than Nikon and Canon glass and much cheaper. This was not the case some years back or I would probably have more of their product.

If you have any other stuff I can help with I am MidnightUK on
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/index.php?s=70254290452777cb93762ead638e9e99
its free to join and you can message me there as I am on Singletrack less often.

Hope you have lots of fun on your hols.

Nice one Midnighthour, just when the thread looked like descending into another STW bighitter bullshit fest, you’ve come along with some good advice. 8)

Cornwall photos
http://www.blipfoto.com/baldycarrie/about
Click on her first entry date, then you will get a calendar on the bottom right to choose from.
Her pics in this journal are scary good if you like landscapes 🙂

Iodious – thanks most kind. I kind of feel I have run off with this thread though, sorry folks. Feel I have to justify choices to a beginner (which is long winded) as they need to know reasons for decisions, not just be told what to do. 🙂

If you go for a 7d, try these spare batteries. The 7d is fussy, the canon orig battery is an absurd price. I have 3 of these, they have been fine both in camera and in charger.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PowerPlanet-3347B001AA-Camera-Battery-Digital/dp/B003P58MHA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336945316&sr=8-1

Have used the same company for their 5d batteries as well and they too have been good replacements.

I’m sorry, will stop posting after this!

– budget for Adobe Lightroom 4 (just out) approx £100. Its industry standard and you will be shooting in RAW file format most likely, if you are fussy. Amazing what you can do with a ‘software darkroom’. Canon do supply their own conversion software (DPP) free with camera but most Canon users appear to find Lightroom easier to use. You can download a test program for 30 days of use at Adobe homepage.

Ah, finished at last 🙂

Its industry standard

really? i don’t know any working photographer who uses it. (capture1 and phocus user here)

really? i don’t know any working photographer who uses it. (capture1 and phocus user here)

Funny – I know many who do, at least as a first pass. Depends whether or not you make your money taking poorly-cropped shots of modern chairs in a studio, or you just want a tool to parse a range of shots from your last trip out into the hills / wedding etc. Horses for courses ‘n’ all…

Lots of (most?) working wedding and event photographers use LR IME (including me) – very fast for narrowing down and editing lots of pictures. I imagine MrSmith looks down on them like he seems to on most people though. 😉

not really. just couldn’t understand why you said ‘industry standard’ when it isn’t standard in the industry (all kinds of photography)

loving the ad hominem critique, i’ll go and have a little cry seeing as it’s a bit late to phone my mum.

Broken rule Nº1 there MrSmith, never comment on another photographers personal choices, this includes both equipment and photos. 😆

Photoshop and Lightroom would both be considered an industry standard by large numbers of people I believe. Admittedly Photoshop more so, but Lightroom is a newer program, though well established and designed to work in co-operation with Photoshop when desirable for passing files between them during editing.

I guess people may instead use the RAW developer based in Photoshop itself which has a slightly different interface to Lightroom, no cataloguing facility but basically the same options for image developing – so you could well be right, many pros may just use Photoshop itself (or other alternatives) esp if they find Lightrooms catalogue functions etc inappropriate for their own style of workflow/record keeping.

I understood from numerous comments on wedding related photography forums that Lightroom is used by significant numbers of pro wedding photographers for its mass image post-processing abilities and its workflow speed at doing this – of value I guess when many of them are now assessing and processing several thousand images from a single wedding (rather them than me!).

I am not a pro myself, so happily accept I may be incorrect or that actually there are less pro photo forum users developing via Lightroom than it frequently appears. It may also be that other sectors find it less use than serious amateurs and wedding photographers.

Adobe seem to be aggressively seeking a wider general market for Lightroom 4 as they have dropped the market price – version 4 I think being about £50 cheaper as a new improved release now at around £100 (issued earlier this year) than version 3 which (may be misremembering here) sold at approx £150 through its lifetime. So Lightroom will probably become more commonly purchased I would think, even if in the non-pro field.

it will become more commonly purchased by those on a budget now they want the price of lightroom every year to rent photoshop through subscription and have only enabled last version upgrades and no version skipping for CS apps.

I have a 550D which i have used now for coming on two years and love. It came with 17-55mm and 70-300mm kit lenses which were great for getting started and playing around, but I splashed the cash and got a 24mm f1.4L prime lens as I found I always just wanted reasonably wide angles for the stuff I was doing. The image quality gain of a lens that cost more than the body and kit lenses combined was huge! I don’t think the kit lenses have left the camera bag since… I would eventually maybe like a full-frame body, but that would just be an extravagance for my needs…
The long and short is, I concur about spending your money on lenses not bodies.

PS. You really must use a filter of some type also, as I recently dropped my camera (in it’s case) on my tiled kitchen floor and though the filter exploded into a million pieces, it totally saved my lens. Phew!