Cameron blames teachers for decline in school sport

Not initially, he relied on parents, part-time job and fund raising. So JY, seriously, where does the funding payment come from? Let’s say that it costs £10k to get to the start line (but not necessarily to win), where does that come from?

The money was just harder to get this time but without it he would not have won or even have taken part.HE STILL NEEDED FUNDING/MONEY

As i said pages ago money wont make you win but it does mean you can participate without money you have nothing as you have no boat, lake, etc so poor people play footie [as it is cheap] and dont ride horses or go sailing

And we agree on that entirely. Circle squared! But still interested to know where the £10k comes from. But not before 100 lengths. Time training is worth more than pennies spent.

Time training is worth more than pennies spent.

And your own example shows that people can spend more time training if they don’t have to work late shifts in a pub. 🙄

Still waiting. 😉

and only train at that sport to Olympic standard with 10 k

And funny how winners find the time, Grum, isn’t it?

As a kid in sixth form, our school wouldn’t allow a junior cycling champ to do bike training on the wednesday sports afternoons even though he was sponsored by the sports council at the time & was good enough to go on to train chris boardman.
Money & facilities ain’t much cop if the schools ethos isn’t there in the first place.

I’m so glad I went to an FE college as opposed to a 6th form. They wouldn’t even bat and eye lid if we didn’t turn up, or walked out of lessons early, or came in stoned or stinking of booze from an afternoon underage pub session.

Ahhhhh good times.

Funny that we should turn on to shooting as a subject isn’t it really – according to TJ anyone who shoots for fun is a deranged violent fantasist… so presumably he would have been completely opposed to public funding supporting this potential murderer, let alone the prospect of teaching schoolchildren to shoot things 😯

9.9% of 4-5 year olds are obese according to tonight’s news, who’s fault is that?

Good grief…

And funny how winners are the people who find the time AND THE MONEY, Grum, isn’t it?

thm, you can’t have blocked my posts because you replied to half of one earlier. You are getting as bad as zulu for sidestepping ‘difficult’ questions.

[edited for crossed post with the above] …and as if by magic! ^^

(Zulu, didn’t this happen a couple of months ago too? You’re like beetlejuice! 😆 )

And funny how winners find the time, Grum, isn’t it?

You are a tool, Olympic funding correlates to Team GB’s golds with a statistically significant 95% confidence level. Basically what guarantees Golds, is cold, hard cash.

I got bored.

julian – I suspect THM is embarrassed about what he does hence he will not tell us.

Its certainly very interesting on this forum to see who is reasonably open about who they are and what they do and who hides their identity.

Its also very clear that THM will go to any lengths to try to sustain an obviously unsustainable position such as this one including claiming agreement with people who make points diametrically opposite to his.

So THM – how can you train in an equestrian sport without a horse?

So THM – how can you train in an equestrian sport without a horse?

FFS! 🙄

tj, it was THM’s raising of this that piqued my interest. -His original comment (about the Guardian) of course is quite right:

its important to understand in-built biases. “Some” if not “all” history (and economics teachers) might get and teach that as well as sport!

When a debate seems to circle around:
1) CMD’s criticism of state school teachers,
2) whether or not “you get what you pay for”
3) the need/superfluousness of additional funding for sports traditionally excelled in by those with a public/private school background,

…then it becomes all the more important to understand the possibilities of in-built bias amongst those who were educated by the state or by the private sector, and those who teach for the state or in a public/private/crammer school. I am not so black-and-white as to be seeking to ‘out’ THM as a Tory, but I am curious as to why he would seem to be so reluctant to back up his points on a thread so tied up in those three issues with more background to the professional position from which he makes them.

I am sure the other well known teachers on this forum will happily ackowledge that the different people and places they teach to/in brings them different outlooks on both the practice/experience of educating, and the political environment in which that education happens. To pick three prolific and open contributors to such threads: aganellis’, miketually’s and don simon’s employers and workplaces all being different, their students all being different ages and there for different reasons. I know this because all three have been quite willing to discuss this on the forum in the past. Why not THM? ❓

No need to out him as a tory – its so obvious his right wing bias. The amusing thing is that his insistence of right wing dogma as apolitical and the norm / accepted wisdom on any vaguely political thread. I think this says a lot about the circles he lives in.

Nice baiting of TJ as per your norm DS what a positive contribution you have made to the thread

PS I made the same point much much earlier but you forgot to mock me.
When the debate is whether money enables you to partake in sport the question is one of wealth and that you need to have some spare cash to have a horse.
I contrasted this with why you see so many working class footballers because it requires a ball and this is quite cheap

Still you just wanted to bait TJ so i dont know why I actually bothered typing that I suspect this is the correct playground level required

So you and Z-11 joined in to simply bait TJ……. FFS 🙄

I’m waiting for Internet Arguing to become an Olympic Sport.

Would 16 days be long enough?

if Internet arguing were an Olympic sport, nobody from STW would be in the medals! Take your pick…

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

FFS 🙄

😆

al, time for a STW Olympics Thread don’t you think?

@DD: ❓

Well since you mention History teachers;

DISCLAIMER;Obviously as a teacher I accept my experience is open to challenge from this congregation of big hitters as they know better.

That being said;sport in state schools;
1)An increasing number of kids and parents now mostly feel they are doing you a favour by playing.
2) I run rugby teams for which I get no thanks from either parents or (most)pupils or management.
3)If I am going to say, Glasgow in the Scottish cup on a Wed afternoon, I will not be home till 7/8pm. I can expect the school to view the time spent taking a sports team as “non contact” and issue me with cover periods for absent workmates to cover the time I have been on a jolly.
4)I had to rake around to buy strips,obviously I was not allowed any sponsorship that the team could do in school.
5)Risk assessments…
6) Union trying to stop us doing any extra-curricular; Not in Scotland.
7) Non competitive nature of sport? Can’t say I have noticed.
8) 25% of the pupils at my school refuse to do PE of any kind,the school cannot do anything about it.Parents just TELL the school their child will not do it and refuse any sanctions such as detention for not doing them.
9) Local clubs often pressure the pupils not to play for the school.
10) HOWEVER; Seeing my u18 side dismantle much bigger/better resourced schools with the somewhat “robust” style I have instilled and seeing the self belief and spirit instilled in them in the six years they play a game that requires discipline and commitment and….what were the previous 9 I mentioned?

Waves at TJ.

al, it’d be the kind of thread only you could get away with starting. 😉

*waves at duckie and blows a kiss*

How you doing big fella?

DD; getting there, back to work next week up here.

Erm…OK…what’s it to be about then?

In answer to your question, reference our latest equestrian gold medalist. Glad she didn’t fall for the idea that money is the only key to success.

Out of interest was that the same gold medal winner who was saying that she only managed to be in the sport because of her Grandmas will enabling her to buy a horse? Clearly not at all effected by funding then?

I think the point you are missing is that no one is actually claiming that it is the only key to success, however they are saying it is a pretty damn important one, as history and recent events quite clearly demonstrate.

I am saying it is a threshold

no money means you often dont participate- even thm cited an shotist as an example of this
No funding means you have to juggle work and training
No rich parents/affluent schools mean you never do rowing, horse riding stuff or sailing so who knows what talents we are missing out on

after that point it would take commitment, application, dedication but if you withdraw the money all that wont matter as you can no longer do the sport to your best and in many cases at all.

I dont really know why this is controversial tbh.

I haven’t been reading this thread but,

Just seen a post from TJ on Facebook, he’s just received a lifetime ban from STW after his posts on here.

I’m not going to comment on the decision, but figured the forum should know.

🙁

Tbh, from his entrance into the thread, it was only going one way.

No rich parents/affluent schools mean you never do rowing,

Unfortunately this is simply wrong. There are lots of clubs which are open to the public and don’t require wealthy parents or attendance at a public school.
As for the people in public clubs not getting a bite at the cherry, again this is not true either, our club produced a world champion oarswoman. Maybe she was lucky to have been spotted by a well respected coach, maybe she was just so naturally talented, but it wasn’t because of money and not out of reach of many, discounts for unemployed too. 😉
Maybe the public are not interested in this type of sport because they, misguidedly, believe they’re elitist sports.

Berm Bandit – Member
I think the point you are missing is that no one is actually claiming that it is the only key to success, however they are saying it is a pretty damn important one, as history and recent events quite clearly demonstrate.

Exactly right BB and going back to my OP.

teamhurtmore – Member
2. Spending money is important but not the only answer

Hence the question, “And the contraversial bit is?”

I do agree with you JY except there is plenty of evidence, even today, to show that the “no rich parents” comments can be falsified.

But forget the arguments for a moment, let’s just hope that everyone pulls together to ensure that, first-and-foremost, perceived and real obstacles to children participating and enjoying sport are removed. Then, that real talent is properly nurtured and allowed to reach its full potential. Money should not be an obstacle to this and let’s hope that no child is left with the idea that this is the case. That would be a shameful legacy. After all that is what education is really about – Hence Dr Seldon’s reference to Harvard Uni’s Howard Gardner. I went to a lecture by Seldon and bought these books to see what he was going on about. A lot to take in but worth it if anyone is interested in wider aspects of educating young children.

I see Evan Davies (R4) has just done the sums and shown that more Team GB medals have been won by state-educated athletes than private schooled. Also, that London, Yorkshire and Scots educated have won the most medals.

Not sure if this makes any difference to this thread though…

7 % are privately educated what was the split?
{For clarity given what is going on that is a genuine question as i missed the show and there is no hidden agenda]

duckman, great to see another teacher contribute to this thread with his cards fully on the table. 😀

Teamhurtmore, since it wasn’t the wonderings about what your education and professional experience brings to the table that got TJ banned (after all, not a peep about it at my end: unlike both TJ and your good self I have never once been ‘moderated’), I will remind you yet again that it would be nice in the interests of your comment earlier:

its important to understand in-built biases. “Some” if not “all” history (and economics teachers) might get and teach that as well as sport!

…and the issues at hand in this thread which I would have thought schoolteachers of all backgrounds are most excellently placed to comment on,
what potential bias does your own education, employer and type of student have for you here?

Off to bed now. Since you seem to have been active on this thread all evening, hopefully I will have a slap on the wrist or an answer on here in the morning. 😀

@ jy above – Sorry – only heard it on the way to the pub so not sure of the detail.

Chemistry teacher and do rugby and athletics. State school educated and private school employed.
No extra payment for coaching or Saturday sports, yes we have good facilities but in order to keep them going we hire them out when the school isn’t using them.
I do think that there is more of a “let’s do it ” ethos, or perhaps more of the staff step up. I genuinely believe that the strikes of the eighties ruined school sports in the state sector, with lots of people suddenly realising what a weekend with your own family was like. How you get that mindset back is the problem. That and the fact that a surprising number of parents are willing to criticise and comment on something you have volunteered for but not so willing to step up with the time and training.

Julian, good questions and avoided because I did genuinely go to fit in swim training before the 200m final. Reticence is due to involvement in “related project” that is far too early to discuss. Many of the issues raised in the thread explain why this is ex UK! However, core theme is that money should not determine accessibility to the best in education (but is required for its delivery). Among current WIP is role of sport (!) and other ECAs and how this is linked to core theme. So there, my bias is laid bare!

Re history, not my area of knowledge, but I am impressed at how the subject has developed from one that was overly based on factual learning and remarkably biased IMO (when I was at school) to one which emphasises the use of analystical techniques to understand bias and the appropriate use of materials and sources. So it would be nice if history students picked up the Daily Telegraph (OP) recognising where it might be biased (clue in the headline) but then dig behind this to see if there is an alternative message or use of the material. IMO there was in this case, but this is not an opinion that is widely shared obviously!