Building warrant Scotland – do I need an architect AND a structural engineer?

We’re planning some changes to our house (take down a wall between two rooms and replace a window with French doors), so will need a building warrant.

We had a quote from an architect that stated that he will have to use the services of a structural engineer to complete the application; just wanting to make sure this is how it usually works? The info I can find on the web suggests an architect should be able to do the work (or would any architect use a structural engineer and just roll their fees into one payment?)?

Any help appreciated…

PS I know we could do it ourselves, but not sure how long this would take 😉

Architects generally don’t do structural calculations (unless they are also trained as a structural engineer) so it’s pretty normal to also employ an engineer, in Scotland or E&W. Sometimes the architect will employ the engineer and add a risk/admin fee – most of the time I get the client to employ the engineer directly. However your job sounds pretty straightforward – if anything you only need the engineer and not an architect!

Ah, interesting, thank you! The architect is a friend of was recommended by the kitchen designer…. hmmmm…

yes, you need a structural engineer (certified) to do the calcs which will back up the drawings that go in with the Application, assuming that you are tweaking load bearing walls etc. The drawings are commonly done by an architect, but dont have to be. It’s worth getting them right first time though, as it can be a laborious process with Building Control if there are changes, so it pays to make their job as easy as possible…

We were thinking of a loft conversion so employed the services of an artichoke who submitted the relevant plans to the council planning dept and it was them who insisted on a structural engineer. Ended up with a small mountain of very expensive paperwork and it never went any further as the ‘evolution’ of the plans also substantially ‘evolved’ the builders estimate! Anyone want any plans for a loft conversion…..cheap, one careful owner. 🙂

Speak to the building control people first. Often they are very helpful if you try to do things on your own as opposed to hiring the likes of an architect to do drawings for you. Some will even relish the prospect of getting out for an hour or so to come round and see you.

You will need a structural engineer though to sign off the ‘design’.

We’ve just done exactly what you have and can confirm that we used a structural engineering as well as the architect. We needed that calcs as we had to put in an rsj.

Edit: its a good idea to get an architect who works within the same rergion as your planning dept. as their name will be known (for good hopefully).

Don’t forget about the need to have a standards-compliant platform outside the french windows, if you’ve got any sizeable step down to ground level… caught my parents out a little. Architect should know about that bit, I think.

You will need an engineer. You don’t need an architect if you know how to submit a warrant, produce scale drawings and provide workable compliant details, blah, blah, blah

Building Control in Scotland is completely different to England. It is entirely administered by local authorities under regulations passed by the scottish office.
Where there are any structural alterations plans require to be overmarked,at the very least, and an SER Certificate provided.
In you case it sounds like you need confirmation that your wall is non-load bearing, or you need the engineer to specify the method of bearing the floor joist over the wall being removed. Your patio door will also need certified if the existing opening is being made wider. If it’s a straight forward cut down the architect will be capable of describing the method in line with the regs.
Remember no work can start until your building warrant has been issued.

A bit of explanation of the difference between England/Wales and Scotland.

In England/Wales you submit your structural plans & calculations to the local authority and they review them, or pay somebody to do it, using your fee.

In Scotland, you chose a registered structural engineer to do the review and certify it, and all the authority do is check that the certification is valid.

We’re in Scotland and are having a granny-annex built/renovated.

A bit bigger than you but we did need an Engineer to sign-off the plans (they did ask the Architect to make changes) and they produced the engineering drawings for the Builder. They also did a site visit.

We paid the Engineers directly and they were needed to get the Building Warrant – once you see their work/calculations/drawings it makes sense.

You will need an engineer. You don’t need an architect if you know how to submit a warrant, produce scale drawings and provide workable compliant details, blah, blah, blah

I’m glad we appointed a local Architect, based on the communications/process etc…

Sorry for the resurrection…

Just going down the knock through route ourselves, got a couple of quotes from engineers at £550 & £565 exVAT. I take it the extra cost (in comparison to quotes recieved from our southern cousins) takes into account the extra services administered by the engineer?

(both charges appear to be all in including disbursements, design certificate and building warrant submission [+£90 fee])

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to pay peanuts for a monkey, just thought the prices were a bit more than I expected however if we have extra costs involved on one side then it would make sense.

Sounds cheap to be honest. Especially if the are doing the full application and not just the engineering part (better check that) always amazes me how people won’t pay professional fees and yet will probably pay the builder a few grand to put the beam in and yet it will cost the builder a fraction of that

Oh don’t I know it. “Saved” a few quid when we got our extension done by not having the architect project manage. Never again.

Just waiting for a re-quote as the cheaper one was actually for the extension as well (gave them the plans for an idea of existing layout and think the assumed I wanted the whole lot done!) Used them before though so know they aren’t crap.

My builder said we didn’t need to bother with an architect for a single story extension, but that doesn’t involve structural changes and it’s dead simple – timber and block with a pitched slate roof. Can do the drawings between us and then submit to council for a building warrant.

Can do the drawings between us and then submit to council for a building warrant.

Aye good luck with that.

Take it your builder knows all the current regs regarding insulation, knows the appropriate founds if you find complications such as water or gas (even dead mains need to be dealt with) and can do a proper job specification that means he isn’t just adding stuff on as and when he feels like it (oh you didn’t specify that – yes I f****ng did, it’s right there in the job spec you quoted for).

For the sake of £600 (thats what ours cost for a single storey in permitted development including putting the job out to tender, IIRC it was ~£400 for drawings and calcs and would have been an extra £400 to project manage) I’d rather have everything sewn up in the bag.

Oh and doesn’t involve structural changes? Your house is a structure, he’ll be cutting into it to tie the extension in, to say nothing for the extension itself (our old one was peeling, literally, off the wall where it was pivoting on crap founds).