BT Broadband (Wholesale) – useless

Our home internet was down for a few days. After the usual fiddling about I gave tech support at Zen, our ISP a ring.
They were extremely helpful (as usual) but we eventually got to the dreaded “Okay we’ll need to get BT to send out an engineer” phase. 😕

So, give us three time five-hour time slots where someone will be in the house and BT will let us know which one suits them 👿

Oh and if they can’t get access you’ll be charged. And if it turns out it is your equipment, you’ll be charged.

That was bad enough – but the missus waited in the house all afternoon (1pm till 6pm time slot), wasting a lovely sunny afternoon, with two young kids driving her up the wall. And did the BT guy show up? Nope.

One angry phone call later and it turns out BT fixed the problem at the exchange that morning and didn’t bother telling us or Zen.

What a useless shower of monkeys.

Did BT report the fix to Zen and they didn’t tell you or was the BT engineer tasked to tell you as the end customer?

I’ve seen this a lot when BT are tasked by third parties and there is some issues due to BT telling the third party ISP and them not passing it on.

BT didn’t tell Zen.

Missus called Zen after the BT guy was supposed to have been. They had to go call BT then get back to us and apologise profusely for BT’s rubbishness.

Presumably if the BT guy had shown up he would have found that our connection was now working and charged us?

Had BT engineer booked for Monday between 8am 1pm it was red hot day too. The guy had the nerve to turn up during the slot, sort out my Infinity with 30 minutes and clean up before he left. Excellent service from them again.

So you’re saying they only give decent customer service if you are a direct customer then Drac? 😉

Seen this a few times as well

Reading this though and wondering what did Zen actually do well? They seem to have brushed you off with ‘dog ate homework’ patter – what about Zen compensating you for your afternoon in? 🙂

Above they seemed happy enough to inform you they will pass on their suppliers charges for ‘missed appointment’ – it’s your turn to charge now! 😈

Reading this though and wondering what did Zen actually do well?

Basic good professional customer service: answered my calls quickly, listened properly to the issue, did sensible diagnosis stuff, weren’t condescending, kept me updated via text and email as they progressed it and apologised profusely for things that weren’t their fault.

Nope. Used them them when I’ve been with other ISPs too, I’ve always found BT great.

It’s very easy for zen to say BT didn’t tell them an you have no way to check this, but basically BT fixed your problem ahead of schedule, and your ISP didn’t tell you or you hadn’t checked it yourself?

Not that bad service is it?

still don’t get it – are they actually just a chatline then 😕

getting a months free rental from them – for the hassle with their service that led you to post it here maybe..

Excuses, apologies, blame passing /= good service rahnd my gaff though

Least it’s sorted now – I can manage without water for a while, but don’t dare flap the Broadband! 🙂

It’s very easy for zen to say BT didn’t tell them an you have no way to check this

True. Either Zen are telling the truth or they are hiring some very convincing method actors to do tech support.
I have no way of checking. But if it is the latter then the BAFTA committee should be informed 😀

you hadn’t checked it yourself?

We knew the router regained a connection this morning a couple of hours before the BT engineer was due, but how could we tell if this was a permanent fix, an intermittent fault, or just the start of a fix/diagnostic process which the engineer would complete?

What a useless shower of monkeys.

American accent ” are you some kind of commie”

its privatised so its **** brilliant

still don’t get it – are they actually just a chatline then

There is only so much diagnostics that Zen can do. They suggested all the sensible stuff (trying multiple filters, multiple routers, multiple cables, accessing the master socket, checking line stats etc – all of which I’d already done) and did the remote line diagnostics and “whoosh” test stuff – but ultimately BT has the monopoly on exchanges and copper so if the fault is there then they have to get BT involved.

Least it’s sorted now – I can manage without water for a while, but don’t dare flap the Broadband!

It was hideous! Made worse by the fact we only get GPRS on our phones here, which is like watching paint dry. Very wet paint. In a humid room.

We even briefly considered talking to each other, but it was far too difficult without smilies and Like buttons.

We even briefly considered talking to each other, but it was far too difficult without smilies and Like buttons.

That’s awful. I’m glad it’s sorted so you can be social again.

ut ultimately BT has the monopoly on exchanges and copper so if the fault is there then they have to get BT involved.

I thought local loop unbundling had destroyed that monopoly? Copper yeah unless you live somewhere with fancy pants Virgin cable et al.

I get internet and phone from PlusNet, and I was told there were exchange changes required (making it sound like someone had to go to the building and throw huge switches.. when obviously it’s a radio button on a website), so I no longer have any services from BT. That was 7 odd years ago.

Except BT appear to own PlusNet, and still keep calling me to poach me back to ‘vanilla’ BT which is a bit annoying.

so I no longer have any services from BT

Oh yes you do. Plusnet.

BT still run from exchange to cabinet and cabinet to site, they do allow others to use these services but it’s BT Openworld that look after them. That’s why you don’t see Sky or other ISP fixing these lines.

Openreach, n’est-ce pas?

In defence of Zen, this sort of thing is fairly common and I get it at work quite a bit.
Customer reports fault
Our diagnostics deterimine the fault is not the line / wiring / router etc and it must be a service issue.
Report to BT and an SFI engineer is booked, for say an AM appointment. (Thats all they offer 8-1 or 1-6). Typically the engineer finds a fault external to the premises or in the exchange, so doesn’t turn up to site. BUT because the engineer doesnt upload his notes, the ISP is none the wiser, so they are reliant on the end user or the BT engineer updating in a timely fashion.

All this crap about Zen should compensate them? Why? What for? Unless they guarantee 100% service uptime, no service is can be guaranteed to be free of faults and most broadband services have no SLAs anyway.

Ooops! Yeah Openwide.

Oh yes you do. Plusnet.

Well, I do now, since they were bought out. Originally it was LLU with Tiscali though. BT’s own LLU pages refer to hosting others equipment in their exchanges so whilst the copper is almost certainly OpenReach, the NTE might well not be.

Mind you, Tiscali were a shower anyway!

All this crap about Zen should compensate them? Why? What for?

Yep, completely agree – Zen didn’t do anything wrong in my eyes and were very helpful.
From me, the customer’s, point of view it is clearly BT that messed me about.

I do wonder about that “if we find it’s your equipment at fault then we’ll charge you” clause. Just how much technical knowledge is the average customer supposed to have exactly?

I’m comfortable enough configuring multiple routers, swapping out hardware, updating firmware, testing cables, taking apart master sockets, interpreting event logs and all that good stuff. But then I’m a geek and even after that I was only 95% confident that it wasn’t a fault at our end.

What chance does a non-technical user have?

And what argument would any of us have if BT fixed it at the exchange then came out, found “no fault” and charged us?

Oh and according to SamKnows the only ISP offering LLU at my exchange is TalkTalk *shudder* and “This exchange has BT Wholesale as the sole provider of broadband services.”

Like I said, monopoly.

Sounds familiar.

BT Openreach were (in my experience), are (in my very recent experience), and will continue to be (ok, my prediction) an utter and complete shower of arse from start to finish. The main problem is that they have zero incentive to be anything but completely useless. Where’s the competition?

You obviously get decent engineers who can sort things out and know what they’re doing and let everyone know when they’re done and so forth, but apparently the majority (IME) are, to coin an STW phrase, cockwombles.

AFAIK even the ISPs hate them.

Just had a follow-up phone call for Zen apologising for the mess up with the engineer and asking me to fill in a feedback form about it.

Gladly. 😈

What chance does a non-technical user have?

Conversely,

BT go out to a line fault, discover that the problem was down to the homeowner who had DIYed in five extensions using a roll of pre-war bell wire. Should they be fixing his home wiring for free?

“If it’s your equipment, we’ll charge you” is fair enough; it just means that they should be the last port of call rather than the first.

As a customer you’re responsible for sorting your home cabling (or paying someone else to do it); you or the ISP is responsible for making sure your router and filters aren’t faulty; if you’ve ruled all that out then you get Openreach involved, rather than sending their engineers on wild goose chases because you’ve swapped your router for a cheese sandwich and not told anyone.

AFAIK even the ISPs hate them.

We do….

Cougar, to be fair, first and second line support should have already covered those bases before raising a SFI engineer visit.
Most stuff can be ruled out by talking the end user through the steps, the only one that can’t usually be ruled out straight away if a faulty router.

As a customer you’re responsible for sorting your home cabling (or paying someone else to do it); you or the ISP is responsible for making sure your router and filters aren’t faulty; if you’ve ruled all that out then you get Openreach involved, rather than sending their engineers on wild goose chases because you’ve swapped your router for a cheese sandwich and not told anyone.

Oooookay. BT man came and went this morning. I have random line drops and very very weird wifi issues.

New outside and inside box in March (BT). New router, filters at start of May (Plusnet). Still problems occur. The BT guy was connected at 11mbps to the exchange, but couldn’t connect to my router.

He fitted a new master socket with built in filter, still nowt. I can hard line in (usually) fine, but wifi hit and miss. 2nd line referred him to tell me to go back to Plusnet, who in turn tell me they’re still seeing the line dropping out, but will send me another router as this one’s under warranty…

All been amicable to date, but I will shout at someone if/when this new router doesn’t fix it.

Whose fault and why the hell should me as the customer be told I might have to pay if the gear is faulty?

BT go out to a line fault, discover that the problem was down to the homeowner who had DIYed in five extensions using a roll of pre-war bell wire. Should they be fixing his home wiring for free?

No, obviously not, and that’s easily ruled out by the ISP getting people to use the master socket.

But..

you or the ISP is responsible for making sure your router and filters aren’t faulty;

..is a bit less reasonable. I happened to have access to 3 different modem/routers, 2 filters, 2 cables and a cable tester. How many people have that?

Even then I couldn’t be 100% certain that both filters hadn’t mysteriously gone pop at exactly the same time.

I could borrow “known good” stuff from neighbours maybe, but even that might be just filtering well enough to work on their line but not enough to work on mine.

I can hard line in (usually) fine, but wifi hit and miss.

Then it’s a wifi issue – not a broadband issue.

What have you got that might interfere with wifi (wireless phones, baby monitors, microwave, router too near large electrical goods)?
And have you checked what wifi channels your neighbours are using so you can stay clear?

He fitted a new master socket with built in filter, still nowt. I can hard line in (usually) fine, but wifi hit and miss. 2nd line referred him to tell me to go back to Plusnet, who in turn tell me they’re still seeing the line dropping out, but will send me another router as this one’s under warranty…

If it works fine on hard wire connection to the router but your wireless is flaky there is a good chance it’s interference. Run Inssider to see what other wifi networks are around and pick a wireless channel as far away from them as possible.

edit: beaten to it!

Then it’s a wifi issue – not a broadband issue.

So what’s making the broadband line drop?

What have you got that might interfere with wifi (wireless phones, baby monitors, microwave, router too near large electrical goods)?

Nowt. Even with everything unplugged, it still happens (oh, I’m currently wifi’d with everything plugged IN too. When the BT guy left, everything was unplugged and nowt worked.

And have you checked what wifi channels your neighbours are using so you can stay clear?

Yep.

All ideas are welcome.

I have heard of some homeplugs causing issues, but I think that was more in relation to FTTC.