Some of you may have stumbled across ‘Brave Dave’ on Youtube;
Brave Dave of Canadian Freight Hopping (illegal train riding) which went a bit nuts.
Brave Dave of Snowdon adventures (and a bit dismissive of all those pesky mountain guiding rules)
He has a unique presenting style which I quite like…
Anyway, a bit of random early March Snowdon adventuring (just before lockdown) went a bit wrong and he caught the lead up, and resulting fall out, of another person falling from Snowdon, and how a serious situation panned out over the next few hours keeping the casulalty alive until Mountain Rescue turned up en masse, and how they got the him off the mountain.
At the end he reads out a sobering list of injuries this guy sustained…its a worthwhile watch…and a decent plug for the rescue teams at the end.
A couple of things I was expecting didn’t happen. None of them sacrificed their clothing and then headed down the Pyg. I’d have handed over trowsers and everything I thought I’d survive without to clothe the victim and then bailed out relying on a high level of activity to stay warm. They didn’t use a rucksac to cover the legs. They didn’t lie down next to the victim to provide shelter and warmth with their bodies.
. None of them sacrificed their clothing and then headed down the Pyg.
Would probably have turned one casualty into a couple more.
On the whole, not a bad job for a punter once he got there. Carrying survival bag and having a signal etc saved the blokes life.
Couldn’t work out if the other guys were aiming to descend via CG, or going up. Either way, shows how a couple of bad decisions can get you into trouble pretty quickly. The whole party nearly copped it descending after him.
I’m not sure but his trousers got ripped off on the way down so trainers would have too…I’d have thought walking boots would stay on if they were done up properly but then we don’t see him falling, could have cartwheeled for all we know I suppose. They are probably still up there somewhere…
Would probably have turned one casualty into a couple more.
How so? Back in the days before mobile phones it was standard practice. One or two stay with the victim, one or two go for help having left everything not absolutely necessary with the victim – one if it’s easy ground down, two if not.
Yes that was pretty harrowing and really bangs home how quickly things can go to shit. My then girlfriend now wife and I went up via CG about 30 years ago – she not experienced mountain walker and me lots of DofE but that was about it although I’d been up CG a few times. Cloud came down and visibility was about 10m and somehow we went low off the ridge at the start or the end – can’t remember which now but I can still remember working hard to quell the panic.
All was fine but it took 5 minutes to go from enjoying the view to not enjoying being up there. My dad was an occasional member of Llanberis MR in the 50s and all I could think about was his description of some poor guy’s boots flopping around at the end of the stretcher as they carted his body out from the bottom of Devil’s Kitchen.
Very harrowing watch. I thought they did ok, given it seemed like a first time. Nobody needed to go down as it sounds like the location had been passed on. Handover to emergency services and checking of casualty maybe could be improved. More people the better with the casualty in case anything changes I reckon. The whole “holy shit I thought you were dead, look at your **** head” maybe isn’t my style but having been there a few times adrenaline really kicks in and it’s hard to know how anyone would react. I tend to be thinking that and then saying, “don’t worry, we do this loads and you’re fine”. I would go out of my way to not spend too much time with B.D. but everyone is different.
After my first big one I cried a lot and then called some people I know who had been there and talked them through everything I’d done and we talked about it openly and honestly. It was amazing and saved me from giving everything up and getting a job in McDonalds. If anyone ever wants to do the same with me the offer is always open, give me a shout and I’m easy to find. It’s a shitty shitty situation to be in and really affects you. You do the best you can and nobody can ask more than that of you.
Just my opinion of course and I’m not mountain rescue / an expert. Stay safe and if you’re unlucky look after each other as best as you can. There is no right answer.
Fair play to them, not perfect, but they had the kit and saved thier mate long enough for MRT to arrive. You can’t ask for much more.
Everyone is an expert after the fact sat on a sofa in a warm lounge.
I’m not too quick to judge being out in that weather – I’ve been on Crib Goch in ice (frightening), wet, wind and lightening (pure fear…). And that’s four of the five times I’ve done it!
Last one was with the kids, and while windy, foggy and cold, was the best yet.
Amazing that the mountain rescue didn’t give them all a bollocking or is that what the ‘debrief’ was that he referred to?
Glad that The hurt guy is on the mend. Amazing that the mountain rescue is funded by donations.
Not sure what my local one is but I’ll have a look and see so I can make donation.
The bit at the end kind of reminds me of the “brilliant!” Guy from the fast show.
Edit:- I think they all did a good job and I hope that if I was hurt in the hills that someone would stop to help me.
The bit perhaps missed is ‘Brave Dave’ sets himself up as some sort of guru/guide/poor man’s mountain Sensai without the training, qualifications and presumably insurance etc. Y’know, along the lines of ‘follow me lads, it’ll be alriiiiiiiiiiiigggght’…
Leaping to the conclusion that they were ‘clients’ with him, what the flippity flip was he doing up there with them in those conditions? ‘I know, very high winds, poor viz, very wet, p’raps a bit wintry – let’s go high on a ridge…’
Amazing that the mountain rescue didn’t give them all a bollocking
For what?
I think the main issue was the decision to take a short cut to the PYG track (at a guess from Bwlch Coch). It would probably have been better to continue to Crib y Dddysgl. But given the accident happened I think they did a pretty good job, though nipping down to the PYG track and back I didn’t think was too clever.
Lots of criticism for him. Don’t agree with it really, though his style was a bit annoying. Not familiar with his other work. Looked to me like he did a decent job in a very tricky situation. Not sure why he needed a bollocking from MR…looked like a pretty typical hill day to me, and the guy who slipped wasn’t in his group, so it’s not like he was directly responsible for him and his kit. Anyway, it got me to sign up for £10 a month donation to Scottish MR, so that’s a good thing, and the guy survived in no small part due to his efforts, again a good thing.
Leaping to the conclusion that they were ‘clients’ with him,
He describes the one he crossed CG with as ‘his mate’ – given he got a hammering for describing his activities as ‘guiding’ on earlier videos, it’s unlikely he’d admit to it. The other two (including the one who fell) were nothing to do with him.
Can’t defend his decision-making with the ‘short-cut’ though. He (and the others) nearly went the same way as the injured fella.
Amazing that the mountain rescue didn’t give them all a bollocking
I don’t think MR do bollockings.
Almost by definition if you’ve had to call then then you’ve done something that someone some where would consider stupid. “You were riding a trail barely wider than the handlebars in the middle of nowhere? What did you think would happen!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!”
And the last thing they want is people hesitating calling them in an emergency, that could have been a much worse outcome if they’d thought “better not call them, they’ll shout at us, let’s see if we can walk down with him”.
They don’t but a mate on one of the teams once had to help rescue a dozy couple who were stuck high up in grim conditions. They arrived to find him in Reebok classics, jeans and a nylon ‘rain’ coat; her in stiletto boots, jeans, puffer jacket. And she was 8 months pregnant
They didn’t bollock them but took photos, blanked out faces, and put on the local fb pages to basically say ‘don’t be a d*ck’. Everyone knew who the couple were
I didn’t think he did a bad job under the circumstances. Can’t comment on whether he was guiding or the decision making that got them there in the first place as it’s not clear from the video, but after the incident they did well to keep the guy alive. Also just signed up to a regular donation to MR off the back of watching it.
That said, he holds Summer ML and did have the kit and gear during the above incident – however his style would put me right off being in the hills with him – as a friend let alone an ML.
I am also not sure he is ‘allowed’ to call himself a ‘Guide’ when he is summer ML….
Having been sucked into a few more of his youtube video’s….
This guy has appalling risk judgement and poor to middling hill skills – not what I would expect from an ML, particularly as you have to do so many hills.
There is a running video of him on Crib Goch. He (badly) does a swift compass bearing then just plummets off the end, slipping, sliding and cutting his hand in the process. Now I have been up and down that way – funnily enough on my own ML assessment! We did it to do some of our steep ground work and micro nav/route selection assessment…
He then goes up Crib Goch in the dark, with snow visible no ice axe, no crampons. Then lays a slippery nylon bivvi bag on the ridge to ‘sleep’ – and finds himself at dawn wondering why everything froze to ice overnight…
The way he moves over rough ground is poor – he looks like a beginner at times.
It’s all macho bullshine, even his bloody moniker. I’ll go one step further Matt, as a Summer ML, you are absolutely not a Guide in the true AMI/UIAGM sense (I’m pretty certain a Summer ML should not even be on Crib Goch).
To a lot of people, this may be pedantic splitting of hairs, until they find themselves somewhere where the experience and training to become a Guide counts. Then they’ll know. I’ve personally never climbed with a Guide but I’ve seen plenty at work in the UK and the Alps. They are instantly recognisable; usually calm and considered, fantastically fit and grizelled like an old walnut from being out and about (i.e. massively experienced).
This guy takes the unwary/innocent You Tube wannabees and seduces them into massive risk taking. A small dollop of faux Californian (dude/man) and a huge element of misplaced bravado does not a Mountain Guide make.
Just had a quick look at the ML stuff. Again, being a bit pedantic:
“The term ‘summer’ is used to describe any conditions not covered by winter. Winter can be defined as the time when snow and ice prevail or are forecast.”
Anybody else spot the axes being carried by the MRT bods? I know it was wet and (very) windy in the vid, but there was enough snow and ice around for the pros to be carrying ice tools.
I’d love to search the MLTE website to confirm he actually has Summer ML.
Cleverly, his website has no MLTE logos on it and no mention of his FULL NAME.
I also have no doubt that if he did actually hold Summer ML and he did something to bring MLTE into disrepute, they they would have no hesitation in removing him from their list of award holders.
I’ve done Crib Goch many times in all conditions. In the dry it is pretty straightforward and it is generally ok in snow with the right gear. However in damp or ice it can be far trickier. I am not convinced that using the “short cut” (which I know) was a sensible decision given the conditions. Sure it is further to continue along to Bwlch Glas but the route is obvious and, imho, preferable to descending very steep grass interspersed with craggy outcrops. The other error in my view was that from what I can see some or all of them were wearing overtrousers. As they found, these are lethal on steep grass if you slip. Far better to remove them and accept cold wet legs.
