Bike theft and the cycle to work scheme and HP

Overheard a chap yesterday on the train giving greif to his mate, about having his bikes stolen, and he had just been down to the bike shop and asking them for a replacement as they where bought on HP and the other on the Cycle to Work Scheme.

And they basicly told him to do one, his answer to to being told to do one was to tell them he was cancelling the direct debit to pay for the bike then. 😯 😳

Seems as if there are some REALLY STUPID people out there.

I was expecting more brown sauce content in this thread tbh…

Well, the bike shop will have been paid in full by the C2W scheme, so the only thing he’ll affect there is his credit rating.

EDIT: Wait, hang on, won’t he be paying by salary sacrifice? What direct debit?

He had 2 bikes one for work and on the cycle to work scheme and one he bought for best on HP, not the sause, and he honestly thought that the bike shop should replace them free, as he was still paying for them.

Probably just venting/ranting, I’m sure he’ll see how stupid he’s being soon enough.

I know a few folk who have gone and got a £1000 bike on the CTW scheme, then sold them right away! They just see it as a loan opportunity…theft would be their excuse if anything is said about it.

I know a few folk who have gone and got a £1000 bike on the CTW scheme, then sold them right away! They just see it as a loan opportunity…theft would be their excuse if anything is said about it.

Selling somethIng that doesn’t belong to you is theft isn’t it ?

It either belongs to him (so he’s had it nicked) or it belongs to the scheme he bought it from until it’s fully paid for (so they’ve had it nicked). Are we sure he’s not got a case?

What possible case could he have?

On the CTW scheme he’s leasing the bike. Same as a lease car. He doesn’t own it until he transfers ownership at the end of the lease term.

So he may have a case. Not with the bike shop, but with the CTW scheme company???

Assuming it was insured, if it was a requirement of the lease agreement???

Interesting?

C2W/Cyclescheme heavily advice on insuring the bike as it is your responsibility while on HP from them.

Not really, do you really think the schemes didn’t consider theft of the bike and whose responsibility insurance is ?

It either belongs to him (so he’s had it nicked) or it belongs to the scheme he bought it from until it’s fully paid for (so they’ve had it nicked). Are we sure he’s not got a case?

It’s a loan. Like HP you borrowed money and bought the bike. Its your job to make sure the bike is insured, not your employer and not the loan company. Otherwise there would be a thriving sideline in getting bikes on HP, having them “stolen” then going back for a replacement… then repeating.

So he may have a case. Not with the bike shop, but with the CTW scheme company???

Of course he hasn’t got a case.

If you get a car on HP and it’s stolen whose insurance pays for it?

My understanding was that the employer was the owner of the bike until the ‘rental’ period was over. Ownership only transfers to the employee once the final ‘fair market value’ has been paid over.

It’s actually an interesting point. C2W literature suggests it’s your responsibility to insure the bike etc, but if it’s officially owned by the employer and leased back to you, if it’s nicked, it’s nicked off them, isn’t it?

Bloke in the OP’s story is clearly firing in the wrong direction by demanding a new bike off the shop, though.

It’s actually an interesting point. C2W literature suggests it’s your responsibility to insure the bike etc, but if it’s officially owned by the employer and leased back to you, if it’s nicked, it’s nicked off them, isn’t it?

It’s clear that it’s your responsibility as the person getting the bike on a HP scheme. Should they pay new tubes, tyres and chainset too after all it’s their bike?

CTW is not a HP or loan scheme. CTW arranges with a bike supplier or shop. Your employer owns the bike, you lease it with salary sacrifice until the end of the agreed term, you can then transfer ownership or walk away. It’s not yours until that point. Many people see it as HP but it’s not. If you are fired or made redundant it could amount to theft if you keep the bike. Even though you think you “own” it. (Having “paid” for it for X months.)

Nowt to do with the bike shop. Might have some comeback with the CTW company (very doubtful) or with his employer (the owner of the bike). Although more likely with his insurance if it was indeed insured.

We’re arguing about a bike. How would you react if it was your lease car? May cars on HP are infact on lease. Exactly the same as CTW without the salary sacrifice.

If he used a credit card instead on HP he would have been insured for 12 months.

FAIL!

True it’s not HP but you are responsible for the bike and not them. But HP is the same it’s not yours car until you pay for it, hence the name Hire Purchase.

My car is leased on a salary sacrafice and the insurance is included in the lease, in other words I pay for it. There is no come back with cycle to work scheme it’s clear in the details when you sign up.

How can you insure and claim for something you don’t actually own?

I don’t know if any insurance companies have turfed out a claim on those grounds, but given that most of them will wriggle out of them for far less than that, I’d be interested to see how that pans out if the insurer twigs that it’s a C2W bike.

So anything bought on finance the insurance companies could wiggle out of?

Just musing really rather than suggesting I’m right, I’ve never signed any kind of finance/HP or C2W deal, so don’t fully understand the similarities and differences. Seems like there are some subtleties in the C2W which make it a bit of a halfway house between HP and leasing.

I’m sure someone smarter than me has fully considered all these eventualities.

EDIT: Your car lease deal with insurance included certainly seems to suggest that there are insurance issues floating around (perhaps they just can’t trust the lessee not to just pay 3rd party and then destroy the thing.)

I’m sure someone smarter than me has fully considered all these eventualities.

And me no doubt, probably the Risk and Solicitors are the ones who suggest the customer insures them.

How can you insure and claim for something you don’t actually own?

Building insurance on a mortgaged house.

martinhutch – Member
Just musing really rather than suggesting I’m right.

+1. It’s a bit of a grey area that could be argued from all angles. If it was me I’d have taken out specific insurance to cover the bike under as many circumstances as possible.

FWIW I have looked at the CTW scheme for another bike. Now with the new rules about the VAT and fair market value, it’s hardly worth the effort.

With buildings insurance it’s slightly different – you do own a stake of the equity alongside the lender. you also have to take out insurance as part of the t&cs, and normally the lender has to be included on the schedule.