Biggish 29er forks, What do I want?

I’m looking for a new(er) set of 160mm 29er forks. I’ve not the budget for full RRP bought from a suspension tuner, set up for me. I don’t know what direction to head.

I’m relatively light (65kg), but ride fairly hard (not superfast, but no numpty). Mostly on natural trails, loadsa roots and rocks, steep tech. Very little jumpy/bermy stuff. Most forks as stock appear to be heavily overdamped for me and my riding. (until I got my Pikes back from JTech a month or 2 back, I’ve never owned a fork in 30 years where I had the compression damping anything other than full open)

The Rockshox range I “understand” as I’ve had various sets of Pikes. What I do understand is that they won’t work for me out of the box without fettling, but that they can be made to work very nicely with custom tuning and maybe some fancy parts. (The current Pikes on my hardtail were transformed by this).

Fox I have no experience of. My perception is that they’re more expensive, less easy to DIY service (more specialist tools) but may (??) work better off the shelf for me. I don’t really understand how the various buzzwords add up in the model range. (other than Kashima=bling=expensive)

Cane Creek. This is what I’ve got currently. Great in small doses. Overdamped so fatiguing on longer descents and big days, and apparently there’s no options for tuning them for my weight. Mine need a new CSU – creaking – AGAIN.

Intend/Ohlins/EXT/Formula etc. Expensive. Don’t know much about them. Like the Helms, I’m a bit wary of getting stuck with another fork that doesn’t work for my riding style and because rare, can’t be appropriately tuned.

I’m quite happy in theory to go secondhand, but they need to be cheap enough to offset me needing to immediately send them away for a service/tune. I’m also wary of discovering/developing a creaky CSU with no warranty to lean on. Lots of 150mm or 170mm forks to choose from, but then add in another £45 (RS) or £90(Fox) for a new airshaft….

I’ve got a line on some well priced  (compared to new, anyway) new Lyrik Ultimate 150mm, but Charger 3, which I’m told is rubbish for lighter riders, so immediately I’m going to be the best part of £200 on top for a custom tune and new airspring by the time I’ve paid for the postage to/from JTech etc. Or I’ve been offered a pair of used Fox 36s, but again need a travel change and they’re not cheap enough to cover the risk of a creaky CSU.

In my head forks are still a £3-400 thing new. Maybe £500 for a super-duper top of the range billywhizz effort. I’m really struggling to justify more than that for something that doesn’t actually work right out of the box! Yes I’m out of date!

Unsure what I want, or how to progress. Your advice please…

Fox I have no experience of. My perception is that they’re more expensive, 

I’m currently about to order a 160mm 29er, a Factory Fox 36 can be had significantly cheaper than a Lyrik Ultimate at the minute, so can a Zeb Ultimate but it’s overkill for my weight and the Hightower it’s going to be used on. I’ve used a Grip 2 Factory 36 before and they are really good

You’ve not said how much you want to spend, but Formula forks are easy to tune at home due to the CTS valve and are easy to service. The even come with the socket to remove the damper and air springs top cap. the tool for refilling the damper is about £20.

SELVA S 29" Fork

edit, I’ve had a pair for about 5 years and there have been no creeks from the csu. They are on my only bike and have had a lot of use.

Fox do some very good stuff and recent sales have meant they can be found at much more reasonable prices than historically speaking. They are no harder to service than RockShox and spares aren’t really any more expensive (a new air shaft definitely didn’t cost me £90).

In terms of models, there is Performance, Performance Elite and then Factory. The last two are effectively the same apart from the colour. The Performance has the slightly lower spec damper but is still very good. There are also some Rhythm versions available which I think were supposed to be OEM only that perform very well but are a fair bit heavier than the other models.

a new air shaft definitely didn’t cost me £90

Air springs for the newest 36 are that kind of money … previous gen less than half that. I don’t know why.

https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/sram/rockshox-lyrik-select-2021-fs-lyrk-selp-c3-910327

^^^£300, then a custom tube to get the damping to work for you? I like the Charger 2.1RC in the Select+ models.

Fox 36 all day long.

STW standard response, recommend whatever you have, so suggestion is Manitou Mezzer Pro:

Adjustable travel (140-180mm in 10mm increments). Available at competitive prices (at least mine were when I got them) mainly because they’re not on most people’s default list, and relatively light for a long travel single crown fork.

It’s quite a bit of fork for the money, provides some tuning option out of the box including a dual rate spring so plushness Vs support xan be tweaked to your preferences/weight.

That Lyrik is good value but given my recent experience with Evans I’d be very wary about placing an order with them even if showing as in stock. Basically a month of chasing updates only to be told they were trying to get a reply from their “Brand Partner” as to the whereabouts of the product. Doubt I’ll shop with them again.

That Lyrik is good value but given my recent experience with Evans I’d be very wary about placing an order with them even if showing as in stock.

I’m still waiting for the same fork ordered from Sports Direct, they sent me a couple of fork tokens instead of a fork. I’m hoping they sort it but the longer it takes the less optimistic I am.

I splashed out on a monstrously expensive EXT Era along with my new Geometron, which was a huge disappointment.  Horribly harsh, despite spending ages on setup and getting it fettled by Mojo.

The contrast with the superb Storia shock on the rear was pretty stark.

A Lyrik Ultimate came up cheap locally, with a Vorsprung coil kit fitted .

It’s the best fork I’ve used by some margin.  I also ride mainly natural rooty stuff, through the winter when supple is king for finding grip on muddy roots.

I also have a MRP coil which is great too, if you want an off the shelf coil.

Marzocchi Z1 coil, with a lighter spring fitted.

On budget and definitely a more active fork than pretty much everything mentioned above. Better value than the Fox36, more active too; same applies Vs Lyric or Pike.

Evans is out – not giving money to Mike Ashley (although thanks for the pointer)

You’ve not said how much you want to spend

As little as I can to get the right thing. This is an unplanned expenditure. I’m somewhat miffed that I’ve only got 4 years of relatively infrequent use out of the Helms (I did try selling them after the first CSU was replaced under warranty but no one wanted them), and I’m getting bored of paying a lot of money for high end products that don’t work right.

Formulas I’ve only heard good things about (but only second-hand info), but its that thing of every time I’ve stepped away from the mainstream I’ve got bitten. Pace back in the day; Bos parts availability; CC lack of (aftermarket) tuning options. I can “afford” to blow that kind of cash, but they need to work flawlessy for 8-10 years at that money, or be sellable on at a solid price after 3 or 4 – once you get off the beaten track of Fox/RS, that gets harder as its a smaller target market.

I would prefer an air fork on the whole – at my weight, hauling a bike that weighs about 1/4 your bodyweight about is a noticeable thing, and I like my hard techy climbs almost as much as I like my descents, so adding a couple of hundred grammes on is a definite problem for me.

Manitou Mezzer. The Dorado airspring is excellent and the IRT makes tuning for you weight easy.

I’m slightly heavier than you but could never get RS airsprings to feel right. There was always too much ramp up for my liking.

The Pro damper is also excellent. At your weight you’d need to pull a shim out of the damper but it only takes about half an hour.

No direct experience but the Expert damper is meant to be pretty good too and has less twidlers if you’re a set and forget type of rider. The Expert fork can have the IRT cartridge added for extra tunability.

One of my favourite things about Manitou in general is thattthey’re designed so you can do a full service at home with basic tools.

You’d be looking second hand for your budget but they’re worth every penny.

I’m about 5kg heavier than you and love my Formula Selva R but they’re expensive.

The cheaper S makes do with a a coil non-adjustable negative spring which is designed for rider weights 55-100kg. I probably wouldn’t worry about being close to the lower end of that as it means you’ll have a relatively strong negative spring which generally means better small bump sensitivity.

The CTS valves allow you to totally change the character of the fork, and then use the dial for more/less within that damping curve. But they cost money and not as convenient as just turning a dial.

Out of budget I’m afraid but you said light rider, rough natural, overdamped, fatigue, spending money of custom tunes. That was me and this was my solution.

https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Fox-Racing-Shox-36-Float-Factory-GRIP2-Tapered-Fork-160mm-2023-29_257306.htm?variations=colour:Black,option:160mm%2520%257C%2520QR%2520%257C%252044mm&sku=920891

Personally I’d go Lyrik and see if you can find one with a 3.1 damper as it’s supposed to be better for light riders than the 3.0.  You know you can get it to work where as anything else might be an adventure into the unknown…

I had a Fox36 with the grip 2 and struggled with it. There’s lots of dials so you can spend a lot of time tuning it but I was never really happy with it. I’m 72kg so a bit heavier but I never got that majic combo of soft off the top and supportive.

I’d avoid Zeb or Fox38.. I just think they don’t consider lighter riders enough. It’s a pet peeve of mine seeing a small OEM bike with massive forks (yeah I know why but I can still be annoyed).

I have a friend who’s raving about the new Fox grip X but he’s 200lbs+ and a hard charger.

that thing of every time I’ve stepped away from the mainstream I’ve got bitten.

I get your concern. I have a cane creek shock!

had a Fox36 with the grip 2 and struggled with it. There’s lots of dials so you can spend a lot of time tuning it but I was never really happy with it. I’m 72kg so a bit heavier but I never got that majic combo of soft off the top and supportive.

I’m 98kg and I was the same. Just don’t ride aggressively enough for the stock fork. Only ever ran the compression wide open. Had a Luftkappe fitted at first service and it’s a massive improvement but an extra £90 on top of an already expensive fork.

Low end Lyrik select plus on newest hardtail have been much better straight out of box.

I’ve got Fox 38 Factory’s on the ebike, so at the top end and Lyrik Selects on the HT – budget end of the Lyrik range

The difference between the two is night and day

I’d either be looking at Lyrik Ultimates, Fox 36 Performance Elite/Factory, or Mezzer Pro’s for what you want

They (Fox) are no harder to service than RockShox

Not my experience and also not with my LBS’s as it was a bit of a struggle to find someone local who’d do a lower leg service (it needed a few tools etc I didn’t have) on the 38’s I got.

I’m 75kg and have had a few Pikes, really happy with them plus a lower leg service is at worse an hours task with basic tools.

I then got a Lyrik Ultimate in the sales a few years ago, very happy with it – it was a 180mm model, airshaft’d down to 150mm.  Again, easy to service the lower legs.

A couple of years ago I got an eeb light, came with Fox 38 Elite’s – really happy with them, but (as above) use an LBS/TFTune for servicing.

One thing I think that’s noticeable is just how much better stiffer forks ‘track’ across obstacles/chunder/cambers  – if for nothing else they’d ‘better’ IME.

Marzocchi Z1 coil or air – both great with the GRIP damper. Can pick them up around 250 on ebay and then you’ve got enough left over to get them fettled if needs be.

Manitou Mezzer. The Dorado airspring is excellent and the IRT makes tuning for you weight easy.

I’m running a Manitou Mattoc Pro on my FlareMax, basically – as I understand it – a scaled down Mezzer. Just a really nice fork with a good mix of support and suppleness and very tuneable if you’re the sort of person who is prepared to take some time playing with air pressures and damping adjustments. If I were after a beefier fork, the Mezzer Pro would be high on my list as a result. The downside appears to be limited support in the UK, though I’m pretty sure TFT does servicing, repairs etc.

Another recommendation for Manitou Mezzer Pro definitely worth finding the Pro version if you can.) I’m pretty light too, 10st4Lbs, and I really like Manitous, other forks seem to be designed for heavier people regardless of tuning.

Thanks for the thoughts….

Current favourite option is a new set of 2023 Fox 36 Factory Grip 2 – a bit under £600. (found whilst researching Selvas)  Lower leg service seems pretty straightforward – I presume you don’t need the special tool to break the seal – just use a socket on the foot nut and hit that, just like I’ve done on every other fork!

The Mezzers (like the Formulas) only seem to get good reviews. Not many sellers in the UK – most of the immediate (and well priced) options on google are euro dispatch loctaion (Velo-store or Starbike), which means I’ll get stung for import and warranty claims will be awkward – or pay full RRP for UK stock.

The price on the Fox 36 Grip 2 is a fantastic price!

That being said the fox forks always come with way too much grease in/on the air spring which can negatively effect the “off the top” feeling, so I would reccomend dropping the lowers and cleaning up the air spring before using them. Its a pretty easy job if you are comfortable doing a lower fork leg service. Alot easier than it is on the 38!

I’m at the opposite end of the weight spectrum at 100kg and still have to run the high speed commpression fully open but of course my air pressure will be alot higher than yours.

I find Rockshox forks more comfortable on fire roads etc but when things get rowdy the Fox forks are my preferred.

Saying all that, it is probably the best Fork/Damper  I’ve ridden (i’ve not tried the new fox stuff) and most of my riding is Lake Distrist rocky technical steepness.

I am now on my third 29” 160mm fork on my current bike and it is a Formula Selva C. This one feels like best fork in 30 years but lets wait for full year of ownership before full review. Lower legs are easy to service and CTS tuning is ok.

Manitou Mezzer Pro was strong contender too but I don’t want to play with multiple air chambers in varying winter conditions as I keep my bikes in warm garage and might occasionally ride in subzero temperatures.

First forks were original Fox 36 Grip2 VVC but I couldn’t adjust it to my normal riding even if it worked well in bike parks. It was either harsh or divey. Had it serviced twice and played a lot with tokens and dials.
Second fork is DVO Diamond D1 which has very nicely adjustable initial stroke but there was something in the damper which bothered me a bit and I had wanted to try Selva for a long time. When I found Selva on offer I took the chance.

I’m similar weight and couldn’t get my 2022 Pike Ultimates to work for me at all, but picked up some Charger 2.1 (I think) Lyrik Ultimates and they’re absolutely fantastic out the box just with a basic setup.

Simlar on a 2023 Fox 36 Factory at 140mm, fantastic fork especially at the ~£400 I paid on the CRC disintegration sale last summer. I’d happily buy either again, maybe not at close to 4-figures RRP but at £5-600 I’d buy either and be very happy.

For me the Lyrik sits up slightly taller in its travel more consistently but without being any harsher, the Fox seems to settle in a little more but I never have any real issues with it diving through its travel. It may well be setup differences more than actual fork differences, although from the comment above perhaps it is more a feature of the fork. I do feel that the Lyrik is more stable/supportive in berms and compressions but still very smooth on the bumps.

If you could live with the weight, the coil z1 might be exactly what you need.

So plush and the damping goes really light.

Just got to make sure there’s a spring rate to suit you, the recommendations are a little over optimistic.

I’m about to advertise some RS Zeb Ultimates – spares or repair for £200.. they were my son’s and were working fine, but for some reason the damping has gone skewiff and the adjusters don’t do anything. We didn’t have time to sort them as we found out at BPW and he needed to keep riding.

Now he has new forks and these are sat in my garage. Might need a new damper, might just need the damper sorting… anyway, gimme a shout if interested.

Current favourite option is a new set of 2023 Fox 36 Factory Grip 2 – a bit under £600. (found whilst researching Selvas)  Lower leg service seems pretty straightforward – I presume you don’t need the special tool to break the seal – just use a socket on the foot nut and hit that, just like I’ve done on every other fork!

Great fork, especially at that price. Only special tool you need is a flat 32mm (IIRC) socket to get the air cap off – the air shaft is commonly over greased from the factory so you will want to do that immediately (as part of a lowers service) otherwise it will just be a bit crap.

I’m about to advertise some RS Zeb Ultimates

Thanks for the offer, but too big and heavy for my tastes!

If you are looking for used there are some Fox Factory 36s in the classifieds at a good price

For me, big fork = coil, it’s such a gamechanger. It probably doesn’t have to be, I’ve had air springs that felt… I dunno, 80% as good maybe? 85%? But most don’t. I’d rather have a basic fork with a coil than a top end air fork personally. It does add weight obviously but I’ve even got one in my ti hardtail now, for me it’s just totally worth it.