Benefit cuts

Sociopathtrackworld?

I’m assuming that Steve is an Audi-driving IT manager with a log burner, a 5K bike and a coffee bean subscription. I don’t have any sympathy either. In fact he shouldn’t even be entitled to benefits! This is outrageous!

We don’t know, so why are you asking? Are you trying to divert focus from Steve’s problems? Are you trying to justify ignoring it?

Personally, I can’t help Steve. His depression seems to be holding him back from helping himself – which given the information in this thread and the limited info in the article it seems he could do if only somebody could point him in the right direction.

It’s an opinion piece in the Guardian. Of course I’m going to ignore it, same as I ignore opinion pieces in all the newspapers.

THE FORM DOES NOT SOLVE HIS PROBLEMS! IT ONLY COVERS HIM FOR A FEW MONTHS!

Great. So get it filled in then.
It might buy enough time to solve the problems. But if he doesn’t try it’ll do bugger all.

“Great. So get it filled in then.”

Great. You offering to help him with it then?

So get it filled in then.

I think he needs some help.

Of course I’m going to ignore it

So that you can ignore Steve and his kids?

teamhurtmore – Member

Lets see NW?

So the government said, the key aims of the benefit cap are

increase incentives to work;
introduce greater fairness into the welfare system between those on out-of-work benefits and taxpayers in employment; and
make financial savings and incentivise behaviours that reduce long-term dependency on benefits.

Source: UK Government

You are confusing (deliberately or otherwise) the issue with a wider context. As the BBC summarised neatly at the time

The benefits cap is a limit on the amount paid to individuals.
The welfare cap is a limit on benefits spending overall

Different things – but a good illustration of why informed debate on this issue is normally impossible.

Pop quiz sensible question – when the benefit cap changes were announced, did the government say it was to reduce the deficit?
a) yes
b) obviously
c) none of the above

Oh a BBC summary, that’s resolved that then! All I’ve got is the Conservative Party Manifesto, but that’s obviously way less persuasive 🙄

Our deficit reduction plan has two phases. The first will see us continue to reduce government spending by one per cent each year in real terms for the first two full financial years of the next Parliament, the same rate as
over the last five years. That means saving £1 a year in every £100 that government spends
We don’t think there’s a business that couldn’t do that – and we don’t
think government, when it is spending your money, should be any different.
That will require a further £30 billion in fiscal consolidation over the next two years, on top of the £120 billion that we have already identified and
delivered over this Parliament. We will find £13 billion from departmental savings, the same rate of reduction as in this Parliament. We will find £12 billion from welfare savings, on top of the £21 billion of savings
delivered in this Parliament

The benefit cap is part of the £12bn.

Anything else?

“Can any of you Tories defend this?”

Well, clearly some are giving it a go. 🙄

Great. You offering to help him with it then?

Yeah no worries. All he needs to do is ask. I’m sure you or anyone would do the same for a mate in trouble.

EDIT
Also, having been in the benefits system myself, I’m fairly sure they’d point you in the right direction or offer assistance when you go to sign on.

No NW but thank you for proving that you are confusing (deliberately or otherwise) the benefit cap – and its aims – and the welfare cap. Easy to do mind….

To avoid confusion, the government said, the key aims of the benefit cap are

1. increase incentives to work;
2. introduce greater fairness into the welfare system between those on out-of-work benefits and taxpayers in employment; and
3. make financial savings and incentivise behaviours that reduce long-term dependency on benefits.

In contrast lets see how Owen Smith approached the issue

He went on to say that the party is “”in favour of an overall reduction in the amount of money we spend on benefits in this country and in favour of limits on what individual families can draw down”. However he said that there needs to be a review of the party’s position to the cap in general.

This comes after yesterday at the TUC Congress Jeremy Corbyn, Labour’s new leader, said the party were tabling amendments to the Welfare Bill that would remove the idea of the benefit cap.

Council houses, private landlord rent cap, community work or training in return for benefits, compulsory parenting classes, fresh food instead of cash, fast food/ready meal tax and compulsory vasectomies after fathering 2 kids would be a start.
It seems a manifesto is easier than I thought. . . .

“compulsory vasectomies “

AKA Enforced Sterilisation. Hmm, the Nazis were big fans of such inhumanity…

Northwind; be warned that THM will try to drag you down an increasingly obtuse alleyway where even he won’t be able to remember how he got there. 😆

I’m actually intrigued here. I’m just having a look at the housing benefit claim form (HCTB1) There’s actually provision for someone else to do it for you.

Housing benefit was reformed in 2008(?) to become local housing allowance. Unfortunately, the government of the day ignored the advice of the civil service department that dealt with it on the ground when they pointed out that the proposals in the white paper would drive up private rental costs, and thus the welfare budget.

This then coincided with the crash and an increase in claimants on top of the increased costs, so the government of the day then started having to cut the budget, which thus penalises tns worst off.

The underlying problem is that successive governments of all colours have failed to provide social housing to those who need it, and wages have failed to keep up with the cost of housing as a result. Fix those two issues, somehow, and the benefits bill will start to fall.

Two thirds of HB claimants are in work – how **** upnis that for a system?

“I’m actually intrigued here. I’m just having a look at the housing benefit claim form (HCTB1) There’s actually provision for someone else to do it for you.”

Excellent! When are you going to go and help Steve then?

Excellent! When are you going to go and help Steve then?

If anybody actually wants to help Steve (& folk in similar situations) there are vacancies in Birkenhead…

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/support-us/volunteering/volunteering-opportunities_search/?q=birkenhead

It’s a lengthy form for sure but nothing too tricky. It’s about you, your family, your address, job, savings Etc. Like most Governmnet forms it’s long winded but well laid out and has explanations where necessary.
A quick scan through reveals a checklist.
First thing on the checklist?
“Do not delay in sending this form in.”

Excellent! When are you going to go and help Steve then?

You know what, I’ll put my money where my mouth is. I have no contact details for him and I doubt I’d be able to get them but if someone can get me in contact with him (email in profile) I’ll make the 500 mile round trip and do it. I’ve got a free weekday at the beginning of December. I’ll freeze my ass off on the motorbike, but yeah. I’ll do it. I’ll buy him some time. All he has to do is ask.

Wasn’t someone just a few weeks ago saying this was a notoriously left wing forum? Good lord, if this is left wing then I’m scared.

To answer the OP- if you’re not a selfish **** with no empathy it’s indefensible. If you are then it is.

“You know what, I’ll put my money where my mouth is.”

Good stuff. I’m sure if you offered your support via the Guardian journo who did the piece, your offer of support may get through to Steve. 🙂

https://mobile.twitter.com/chakrabortty

aditya.chakrabortty@guardian.co.uk

I’m just having a look at the housing benefit claim form (HCTB1)

Sure it’s the same one? I assumed he was having to apply for some kind of emergency relief?

In danger of bringing in facts to this, sounded like a DHP (discretionary housing payment). Something administered by LAs and will remain in the hands of LAs, even when someone may have their housing paid by UC.

So that you can ignore Steve and his kids?

I think Steve and his kids are fictional. Created to whip up a frenzy of outrage at something that was actually news in early summer.

Besides, where is the kids mum? Does she have no responsibility at all?

Should she not? If the father was the absent parent, there would be a means of extracting cash from him.

Wasn’t someone just a few weeks ago saying this was a notoriously left wing forum?

I’m relatively new around here, but from what i’ve seen so far, it certainly gives that impression a lot of the time.

I think Steve and his kids are fictional. Created to whip up a frenzy of outrage at something that was actually news in early summer.

Besides, where is the kids mum? Does she have no responsibility at all?

Should she not? If the father was the absent parent, there would be a means of extracting cash from him.
😆
Very good.
😆

Besides, where is the kids mum? Does she have no responsibility at all?

Dead? Heroin addict? Mental institution? Destitue herself? Homeless? Have you no imagination or understanding?

Some people could probably do with walking a mile in other people’s shoes as a form of education. It might make making offhand uneducated comments a little more difficult.

Can’t disagree with that. Unfortunately there are folk on this forum who thinks this only applies to those with a certain point of view.

PP – I think it would be the DHP form not the HB form

https://www.wirral.gov.uk/sites/default/files/all/Benefits/Housing%20Benefit/Discretionary%20Housing%20Payment%20application%20form

Email sent.
Nice and polite, not trying to sound clever, genuine offer.

Seen the form in Ninfan’s link.

I can see how it would be difficult to fill in. You have to build a case, without any guidelines as to what’s acceptable or not (unless they are available elsewhere). Also it asks you if you’ve done other stuff first. You’d have to know about that other stuff in order to try and apply for it, but not managing to do that (which could be similarly difficult) then you’d be dissuaded from filling in this form because you wouldn’t have adequate justification.

Looks like one of those forms where you’d need the help of someone who knows the system. I’m not sure I’d know what to do with it right now.

Email sent.

Good work Poddy. Let us know if the forum can help out. I’ll do what I can but not really in a position to travel unless urgent.

Ninfan – Bloody hell thats only 4 pages! The one I found was 42!!!

Bravo Peter – proper ideas not band aids.

teamhurtmore – Member

No NW but thank you for proving that you are confusing (deliberately or otherwise) the benefit cap – and its aims – and the welfare cap. Easy to do mind….

To avoid confusion, the government said, the key aims of the benefit cap are

1. increase incentives to work;
2. introduce greater fairness into the welfare system between those on out-of-work benefits and taxpayers in employment; and
3. make financial savings and incentivise behaviours that reduce long-term dependency on benefits.

Ah so this is the new game is it? Just ignore it when someone corrects you, and repost what you’ve said before as if it’s not been shown to be false? Righto. Just ignore the Conservative manifesto then, I’m sure it’s not important.

To recap;
The benefit cap was announced as part of the £12bn welfare cut
The Manifesto stated in black and white that said cuts are part of their plan to reduce the deficit
You’d like to pretend otherwise.

Molgrips – Agreed. You gotta make it sound good. Have a think about how that can bbe done, I might need your input.

More than happy to help – email in profile and of course on FB – and whilst I know naff all about the benefit system I have google.

Looks like one of those forms where you’d need the help of someone who knows the system. I’m not sure I’d know what to do with it right now.

Top of the form…

If you are having difficulties with housing, the Housing Option team can give you free, confidential help and advice on all housing matters. You can access this service from a One Stop Shop or on line at: http://www.wirral.gov.uk

https://www.wirral.gov.uk/housing/information-and-advice/housing-advice/stay-your-current-home

Brilliant…. So that’s Steve sorted – well done STW, this place is genuinely uplifting sometimes
Now what about all the other 100s of thousands of unsupported vulnerable members of society?

depressed folk who find making a cup of tea a struggle and get overwhelmed by the thought of having to go and buy a new lightbulb

or my schizophrenic mate, Lisa – who believes that Louis Walsh is representing her in a televised court appeal when she watches X-factor

old folk who have leg ulcers deep enough to see exposed bone because they ‘don’t want to be a bother’

I reckon some of these folk have got enough on their plates already without the threat of homelessness… it’s the switched on landlords with their get rich quick schemes that should be bearing the **** brunt here

have none of you that have led sheltered lives bothered watching Ken Loach’s new film?

NW you remain confused. You posted information relating to a different issue (the government’s plan not to spend as much over and above what they earn as before) while ignoring the precise aims of benefit cuts taken directly from the governments statement on the issue, (which falsify you point.)

And someone is playing games?!? Your first point mentioning me and austerity explains the context for your confusion – an ill-informed dig.

Actually, this is important and should not be trivialised in the way that you have done. Benefits have been misused by governments for far too long to mask LT structural issues. I would expect someone in further education to understand that. Clearly I am mistaken in that expectation.

Thanks goodness for more sensible and practical people like Peter.

One of the biggest problems the Uk is facing is coming home to roost. Maggie Thatcher let a load of people buy their council houses, future governments of all colours then did very little to ensure enough new affordable homes were built to rent or buy for those already here, then they opened the floodgates to EU and non-EU immigrants.

Consequently, buying and renting prices are getting out of control.

About the best chance most people will get if they don’t have a mortgage now will be when their parents die, but this won’t work for those with multiple siblings and some parents will be renting themselves.

The housing situation for our growing uk population is going to reach a crisis point very soon, then followed by an aging poverty crisis because we have spent virtually all our income putting a roof over our heads.

I had to fill in a government form today (online, mind – I’m bang into the 2000’s, me).

It had a tick box. “Tick if you are unemployed or on a Pension”.

I ticked the box.

The next box was “Enter your employers PAYE reference number or Pension number”.

I ignored this and foolishly clicked “Next”.

“Error: you need to enter your employers PAYE reference.”

Er…

Um.

What they actually meant was enter your “most recent” employers reference number – it didn’t actually say that anywhere (like in the help) and because I’d sat on me cross-bar funny, my crystal ball wasn’t working.

kafkaesque. I give pity to anyone filling in government forms, esp. in times of privation and stress.