Beach safety…

It’s a tragic event no doubting especially as it doesn’t sound like there were extreme conditions involved and the beach was busy with other people.

However, as to the safety aspect, more people die on the roads each year and they remain open and un-guarded.

The classic sandy beach shape has a dip just off the shore then a sand bar further out. People get onto this and as the tide rises they find themselves separated from the shore by a channel.

classy stuff from the sun

Five or six lifeguards apparently, it’s going to be kind of tricky covering a beach that big with that many. I’m kind of glad I’m not one of them – it seems they’re going to be asked to do something well outside their normal remit if they’re expected to provide cover on an expanse of beach rather than within a carefully defined flagged swimming area. I’m not sure those calling for lifeguards understand exactly what it is they’re asking for and how many you’d realistically need to cover that expanse properly (the lifeguarded beach I’ve used most they have about that many lifeguards covering 200m-300m).

The five or six lifeguards is in addition to local authority beach patrol teams. I have no idea of the logistics involved, hopefully the RNLI and Rother District Council have.

Then you have this ****.

Woman rescued three times in four days after ignoring warnings

The beach patrol teams aren’t lifeguards, so it’s not really in addition. I expect they do have an idea about the logistics and know that it’s a nominal exercise in reassurance than providing a useful lifeguard service on a 7 mile expanse of beach.

The beach patrol teams aren’t lifeguards, so it’s not really in addition.

Well it’s precisely because beach patrol teams aren’t lifeguards that they are ‘in addition’ to lifeguards.

Although I do appreciate your attempt to correct grammar, I know it can be poor.

http://rnli.org/NewsCentre/Pages/RNLI-to-provide-Bank-Holiday-weekend-lifeguard-cover-at-Camber-Sands.aspx

The classic sandy beach shape has a dip just off the shore then a sand bar further out. People get onto this and as the tide rises they find themselves separated from the shore by a channel.

The sand bars move about and the channel seems quite deep at the moment…

The beach at BoS/Berrow/Brean doesn’t have this, what it does have, though, are constantly moving mud flats, sometimes covered with a thin film of sand, and the mud is often up to waist-deep – even when it’s only up over your ankles it’s so slippery that it reduces the speed you can walk to barely more than a crawl, and when the tide is running and you’re getting on towards a mile from the high-tide line, I don’t think I need to spell out why it’s so dangerous.
Before Lelaina drowned, all the rescue teams had were basically boards to slide out onto the mud, and a helicopter as a last resort, the inshore lifeboats clearly being useless.
Now they have two small hovercraft, the original big one has been retired due to mechanical issues, and it was often too big to manoeuvre easily on the mud, or along the tidal sections of local rivers like the Parrett, where equally stupid people try to cross thinking its a shortcut from Brean to Uphill and Weston, and getting stuck waist-deep in the mud.

BARBs newest hovercraft, Spirit Of Lelaina II, replacement for their first, covered ‘craft

Their first small ‘craft, Light Of Elizabeth, named after Lelaina’s sister. Lelaina would be 19 now, if they’ve been able to rescue her from the mud…

Further to the above:
http://burnham-on-sea.com/news/2016/mud-trio-weston-beach-27-08-16.php

Not quite beach, but sea water related…Rob Warner nearly got chopped up by a massive boat today
crazy legend does crazy [/url]

If you were that monumentally **** stupid would you really post the evidence on the internet or did he do it just to reinforce his radness?

crazy legend does crazy

Absolute arsehole. What was he trying to do?

There is a lot judging and more than a bit of superciliousness on this thread. I’m pretty sure when we went to the beach as kids and teenagers we did not know better and similarly no more or less evidence to base risk. And like the large majority of this Island’s population I did not live by the sea and was only exposed during holidays. So it was then, so it is now.

Some lads got unlucky doing exactly the sort of thing me, my mates (35 years)or any group if teenagers could have been caught out with. It is a tragic accident, there should be a sensible discussion about lifeguarding, but ultimately an acceptance that there is also risk with the sea.

Would also be interested to see some stats on relative risks on all this…

One of my earliest memories of the beach is getting cut off by the tide at camber and being carried through a deep channel by a helpful stranger. I think I was with my older sister and some friends. Looking back at it, could have so easily been another headline.

And as for rob Warner. ****.

Not quite beach, but sea water related…Rob Warner nearly got chopped up by a massive boat today
crazy legend does crazy

What a bellend

This photo shows the issue of sandbars at Camber well

It’s easy to see the potential for not just being stranded from the shore by a fast moving incoming tide, but also for the potential of rip currents being formed if the sea ploughs out a channel across a sandbar.

**** me, what a bellend Warner is!

A couple of years ago on a lovely day at Watergate Bay, the RNLI (who provide a service on this beach) had a stall for membership at the entrance to the beach. The beach was packed. When we left we stopped to chat to the RNLI guys and join up. They said we there the 3rd family to do so in the whole day.

RNLI do get paid by councils to patrol beaches though don’t they? As far as I know Its not voluntary in the sense that they’re contracted by councils and staff are paid. The discretion lies with the the local authorities.

And that Rob Warner video really does make him look like a prat. Inept at jet skiing and stupid.

^^ beautiful beach Camber Sands.

You can see why we use it..

But olddog, we’re not talking about children and teenagers, we’re talking about adults not paying attention to clear warnings.
It’s the job of parents to make sure children don’t go out of their depth, or are allowed to go off the beach on cheap inflatables.
In the case of Camber, it’s a bit less clear-cut, because of the way the beach forms bars, with deeper channels in between, as the photo above shows, but at other places, like BoS/Brean and Morcambe Bay, where there’s a huge area of exposed sand and mud at low tide, there is no excuse for adults ignoring all the advice given to them in a pamphlet when they get their ticket onto the beach, and the signs on the beach.
And I repeat, I’m not a coastal dweller, I live at least fifty miles from the nearest stretch of salt water, but I’ve been aware of the dangers of the coast since at least the 70’s, when I used to see the dead carcasses of cars stuck in the mud at BoS.

Bet the lifeguards in the SW and s wales had a busy day today.. big southerly groundswell + Bank holiday + nice day = chaos in the waves

A couple of them were teenagers, but all were young. My sense is that they got unlucky and five young lads dying is always a tragedy

I am very aware of the risks of the sea having surfed for 30 years, but equally how many millions spend time on the beach safely each year.

I really would like to see some stats on the relative safety of beach and sea activities versus other comparable activities so there could be a sensible discussion of risk. How many people die in accidents on the way to beach/coast as opposed to in the water I wonder.

Our first year in 7 that we haven’t made the trip to North Cornwall this year. We as derbyshire dwellers are probably as far as you can get from the sea in everyday life, but I think we’ve got a pretty good idea of how to respect the sea. Red flags are red flags, no amount of whining from the kids in those years has seen them in the sea in those conditions. Both excellent swimmers who’ve done up to survival level in the pool before starting big school, laddo at 9, but that’s a flat bottomed nice temperature no swell environment, I’ve seen my daughter dumped off her board in 3ft of water and come up as though she’s drowning on the spot. It amazes me how many people with kids have no idea where they are in the sea, just because they’re between the flags doesn’t mean they’re immune. I feel for the lifeguards patrolling as a lot of folk think they know better, and a lot of the time they’re the ones who’ve shot across the m4 or headed down the m5 like us, you rarely see the locals (and you can certainly spot the odd one) in any kind of dangerous situation.

you rarely see the locals (and you can certainly spot the odd one) in any kind of dangerous situation.

That’s cause they don’t come out to play on the beaches with lifeguards, or if they do its after they’ve gone home.

Red flags are advisory, despite what the lifeguards will tell you.

Hmm, I’m used to getting wet, being upside down in my kayak with some regularity recently. Anyway, I reckon I’m a reasonable swimmer. That’s when I’m swimming in a pool. When I’m dressed, even with my floatation jacket on, I find it exhausting to swim in moving water.
I went over yesterday at the Cardiff White water Centre. Within 20 seconds I was struggling. It’s a pretty safe environment, as there are people patrolling the banks, when they get a capsize, they throw a line to them, so you can pull yourself out. Without the rope, I would have just had to let the flow take me, as there is no way you can swim against it, and even swimming with the flow is hard – you go under regularly even with your bouyancy aid on. Anyone without that additional floatation would be stuffed in short order.I reckon a minute tops, and you’d just sink and die.

Myself and my daughter were smashed across a pebble beach last week, we both suffered cuts and bruising. Its a beach weve been swimming from for years, she learned to swim there and we are both good strong swimmers and who normally make decent risk assesments.

I would say a combination of strengthening winds shifting direction and an aready difficult shoreline made a slight misjudgment in our part potentially very serious.

With hinsight I think we were lucky to get away with a few scrapes had we not known the beach it could have been worse fro sure.

It’s the sea FFS!
It’s dangerous just like mountains. It is not societies job to tell people what they should not do. Parents, yes.
We all make mistakes, I have come very close to serious consequences mores than once in the sea and the hills but that was my fault. No one else’s and to expect society to tell me what to do is pathetic and immoral.

Red flags are advisory, despite what the lifeguards will tell you.

They might be in the UK, no idea if that’s true or not, but as a word of warning in Spain they’re not – and you can be fined up to 2000€ if you get into trouble and need rescuing.

It’s the sea FFS!
It’s dangerous just like mountains. It is not societies job to tell people what they should not do. Parents, yes.
We all make mistakes, I have come very close to serious consequences mores than once in the sea and the hills but that was my fault. No one else’s and to expect society to tell me what to do is pathetic and immoral.

I take it that you don’t approve of red flags which are presumably pathetic and immoral ?

alanl – Member
It’s a pretty safe environment, as there are people patrolling the banks, when they get a capsize, they throw a line to them, so you can pull yourself out. Without the rope, I would have just had to let the flow take me, as there is no way you can swim against it, and even swimming with the flow is hard – you go under regularly even with your bouyancy aid on.

It is not a *safe* environment – it may be *safer* than a natural river.

Have you done any training/WWSR course? It sounds like it would help.

Yes, done FSR and WWSR.
That doesnt help you when you’re under water and constantly being covered in waves, you do your best to keep your head up, but there is still a chance of getting a mouthful of water, especially when you go over a drop.
I was caught under a raft. Not a problem usually, but where it was, I struggled to pull my skirt up,due the the current pulling me back, then when I got out, was straight into a drop. I was only under the water maybe 15 seconds, but, as always, it seemed longer. I surfaced, then went under again through a wave.
My point is, I’m pretty used to doing it, and know what to do, anyone who was out in the water in normal clothes, and not expecting to be fully immersed could very soon be in trouble.

I agree – water is a harsh and unforgiving environment.

Cardiff is a shallow and fast course, there are no pools in the flow after the play spot which makes it hard to do much once you’re in.

Another beautiful day on the south coast.

Beaches full of families and friends, all playing in the sea.

Fabulous.