Basic cars

I bet there are a fair on here who have very basic bikes, I’m thinking rigid singlespeeds or even fixies. I’ll bet a fair proportion of them will be very good basic bikes, all titanium and carbon fibre. The owners could afford fancier bikes but like riding basic bikes for whatever reason. I have a ‘posh basic bike’ myself, carbon frame and forks, disc brakes etc, but rigid and only one gear. I like this bike because it doesn’t break and takes no looking after.
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It’s not just bikes. I notice that in the world of archery that alongside carbon compound bows with fancy sights there are basic (but very well made and I would guess very expensive) basic yew bows.
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So why does no mainstream manufacturer make a baisc ‘normal’ car? Yes, I know there are Caterham 7s and their ilk out there but what about a Mondeo-size normal car with no frills?
The more stuff there is on a car the more tuff just goes wrong on them. I don’t want ABS, electric windows etc and I certainly don’t want and can’t even think of a single reason to have an electric handbrake or automatic wipers.
I do like the idea of a roof and windows so don’t fancy an Atom (well, I do but not as an only car)
Why has there been no backlash against these gadgets? As per the bike ananolgy above cheap and basic are not necessarily the same thing, I’m not after tiny shopping carts with 1 litre engines, why can’t we have proper, normal Focus/Mondeo type, basic cars that would be far more reliable?
Am I just being a luddite or would anyone else like a car they could mend themselves?
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It’s a rubbish rant I know, no swearing or random capitals but there is a serious point there, us bikers seem to like basic, even just as a reliable everyday bike alongside the special occasion 30speed full bouncers, what’s happened to the likeminded drivers?

have a word with that Guy Martin bloke, he’ll go make you one….

KIA?

Dacia Duster? Or just get an old car.

Because with most modern cars, you can have your cake AND eat it. Even with all the extra gadgets to account for, cars have (generally) become more and more reliable over the years*.

*i’m sure someone will come up with examples to counter this.

Still far too many gadgets on a Kia!
I’m thinking Series 1 Landy levels of sopistication in a well made, quality modern product. 3 pedals , a gearstick, some seats, a heater and some dials to keep an eye on things with. Windows that open would be nice. That’s it. I am quite capable of turning a key in lock if I want to lock my car, I don’t need a choice of three buttons on a remote which will lock me out when the battery dies.
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Or just get an old car.

Even with all the extra gadgets to account for, cars have (generally) become more and more reliable over the years*.

That’s the problem. I have to have old ones becaus eof budget limitations. Yes, they are generally more reliable than a 1930s Austin but think how much more reliable they would be without all the non-sense. Why scrap an otherwise perfecly good car because the electronic keyless ignition has failed and will cost more than the 10yr old car is worth to replace. What was wrong with a having key?

Trabant ?

Look to India….

Get an old Golf?

Yes, I agree with Rudebwoy, about India, not the Trabby obviously.
That Tata Nano, just a basic car, all works as it should but nothing fancy (and costs the equivalent of £1,500) A big car built on that principal is exactly what I’m on about.
It’s coming to Europe soon and will be suitably equiped for European tastes. and will cost about £6,500. They’ve really missed the point of the whole car doing that.
That’s the question really, why do European tastes demand all the frills, where are all the singlespeers?
Old cars are all well and good but by their very nature are more likely to have high miles on them and more rust than newer cars…

My brother is like you lol, he owns a, 3l german s capri, a mk1 escort van, mk1 fiesta supersport, two mk 4 fiestas and 2 2.8l capris mk3 but hes just had his newest car, well a van a transit connect, its more reliable than his old carb type cars, comfier and dosent take a body builder to change gear or park (no power steering) if you want basic motoring look at basic c1s or older saxos ul get power steering and thats about it tbh, or look into a land rover, a lot of farmers round our way have em n theyre 20plus years old even newre ones still have barely any specs, but their built to do certain things

could go to india, have a holiday, buy one and drive it back…..and save a load of dough, take a video diary and some tv people will buy it off you..

Most of the cost/weight increase is due to safety and emissions regulations isn’t it?

Those stripped out cars like the Clio Cup or Porsche/Aston Martin take out air-con and electric windows and end up saving about 50kg max on a 1.5 ton car.

It’s a nice idea. But it’s cold out tonight so I was glad for my heaters, my heated windscreen, and my aircon to suck out the dampness from the 2 (non-basic) bikes in the boot. And the stereo’s pretty good. And once you’ve tried heated seats…

And there’s pluses and minuses… Like, my Focus got stranded once because of a fault with the crank sensor. It didn’t actually stop working, it just was slightly out of spec and so triggered a fault and cut out the engine. So that’s annoying. But my Mondeo has 180bhp and does 60mpg, stops fast (and in good control in the wet), and when it’s feeling poorly it can tell me what’s wrong using OBD. All good things.

Still haven’t a clue what the little lights in the wingmirrors are for though.

I prefer a basic life 🙂 i much prefer to keep things simple. I ride a relatively basic hardtail bike although it is titanium with bouncy forks and 1×10/disc brakes etc. I drive a relatively basic car compared to modern stuff, a 28yr old golf gti that’s tuned to the 9th degree but has keep fit windy up windows, comfortable leather interior, good heater, bit thirsty, very simple to repair but nothing ever goes wrong with it anyway so that’s irrelevant, it does have power steering that i fitted though as it was impossible to turn such a small wheel with 195 tyres when parking.

Simples…….it the way of the future for sure 😀

i asked this a while back and was told – rose tinted glasses etc …..

I distinctly remember my old 1995 base model diesel fiesta needing stupidly little work , no sensors went wrong ever.

the things that did go wrong were fixable with a hammer – oh and the rust

but then its had done 250k by the time i was finished.

would never pass emissions nowawdays and thats where all the sensors come in to play.

#ITs those sensors that are expensive to work on.

Sandero

Any use? ^

dacia do look promising

the logan is the one i want though – once they bring that over ill go for a test drive 😀

Duster or Sandero.

Or for the win….

Panda

My wife has base model i10 Hyundai. Wind up windows. Not even intermittent wipers. It’s like driving in 1972 only reliable. Small though…

Ahh..memories of the old Fiat Panda.

You are my father and I claim my £5!

As everyone heads in the ‘all singing all dancing’ direction the manual option becomes ‘special’ and so more expensive, due to volumes. Do you want central locking or to pay £100 more for the manual option etc. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

But you do run discs on your bike, don’t you? Not all ‘progress’ is bad. ABS, that’s saved a load of lives, along with airbags and the like.

And tbh the thing that kills old cars isn’t technology but the cost of labour to fix whatever it is that’s gone wrong.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

I LOVE basic however I don’t love the old era of crazy crash test/survivability of knees etc.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

no because they are no longer simple

the old ones are largely worn out – finding a good one is hard work !

So why does no mainstream manufacturer make a baisc ‘normal’ car?

Blame capitalism. Blame Thatcherism. Blame shareholder-owned companies under huge pressure to show year on year growth. Blame quasi innovation designed to persuade people that their current vehicle needs upgrading now with added baubles and technology…

I’d rather manufacturers produced solid, basic cars with fewer fripperies, bombproof engineering and galvanised body panels and proper underseal so they don’t rot at the first sign of water. But guess what, if you produce reliable, durable vehicles, people don’t replace them as often, you sell fewer cars, your share price falls and before long your employees are looking for a new job – Saab anyone?

Said the man with the 1990 Mk2 Golf… 😉

Have a look at the old shaped Ford KA. The basic model is just that, no AC, no electric windows, rubber bumpers, no unwanted stuff. It does have power steering though and I think ABS.

I had one that did 150k and then got sold, it looked a bit scruffy but it worked. Oh, and it is brilliant in the snow, really, really good fun.

Would a Landrover Defender (or Santana equivalent) tick the box?

Even the Defender has fallen victim to new legislation (or market forces), meaning that it’s a lot more complicated than it used to be. A Suzuki Jimny is much more like it. Once you get past the hairdresser looks, it’s essentially a 2/3 scale Defender – ladder chassis, beam axles, et cetera.

Cheap to buy, simple to maintain, reliable and it’ll still get you to work during the inevitable snow/floods/next sale. Cons; they’re not big enough to use as family transport, and they’re thirstier than any 1.3 engine has the right to be.

id love a jimny for offroading – shame id have to centre mount the seat – anyone that says a defender has no shoulder room wants to try a jimny …. forget taking a passenger unless you have no shoulders.

was more room in an old mini !

Weird this- there are ALOT of Aygo’s/C1’s on the roads dating back to 2005.

How many of them are battered?

Northwind – Member

Still haven’t a clue what the little lights in the wingmirrors are for though.

They light up the ground area around the doors, so’s at night you can see & avoid the dog toffee that you would have normally stepped in & squidged all over your cars carpet.

anyone that says a defender has no shoulder room wants to try a jimny

It’s all part of the “Modular Concept” – No shoulder room? Just take the top half of the door off! 😆

tbh i have no issues with shoulder room in my ninety. (ps the door tops havnt come off a showroom stock landy since 1985)

So far we have:

Clio Campus
Jimny
Ignis
Panda

Sorry i10 is just too gay to be considered.

tbh i have no issues with shoulder room in my ninety. (ps the door tops havnt come off a showroom stock landy since 1985)

I stand corrected on this one.

In my defense, all of my Landrover exposure is in Military ones, which differ from the showroom models in a few areas (series doors being a notable example).

ill put my partner van forward its a base model with no frills – no central locking , no electric windows , no cd player no turbo and a basic injection system.

Does me great .

although it has 2 stage intermittant wiper

moving away from series doors was a big mistake imo anyway duffer. – much more knee space in a series door 90 LR as lack of door card.

Good call on Partner/Berlingo etc.

Gary_C – Member

They light up the ground area around the doors, so’s at night you can see & avoid the dog toffee that you would have normally stepped in & squidged all over your cars carpet.

In theory… In practice, they’re door mounted so when you open the door, they’re lighting up a bit of ground I can’t see. Ah progress.

Surely it would cost more to put a low volume low spec car into production.

new line for wind down windows, new line for non ABS brakes

Fact is, there would be no customer demand either (appart from you), especially as prices would increase across the range.

I think there is a middle way. Lots of modern innovation is great – cars that do lots of miles to the gallon with less emissions, that stop quickly in a straight line and look after the human contents in a crash are all good things. Then there’s the nice to haves – electric windows and the like – they are nice to have sometimes! I’ve had more glitches with dodgy manual windows than I have with modern electric windows.

What I want is a car that has enough nice to haves that you are not slumming it but designed and built, very very well with servicing, and easy component replacement as much a priority as comfort and gucci features. I want a car that has a chassis designed to last decades but could be upgraded over time as technology improves or bits wear out. Having to bin whole cars because it just isn’t economically viable to repair a single component is just daft environmentally. A bit like owning a house – you don’t bin the whole house because the kitchen needs replacing. Imagine a car for life in a trigger’s broom kind of way.

Having to bin wholes cars

Not as bad as your computers spellcheck failing 😯 😆