Bad News in Afganistan

six soldiers MIA presumed dead in explosion

Just heard that on the radio. A very sad day for 3YORKS and 1LANCS.

Rest easy lads.

thoughts with the families, not just of those killed, but the families of all those serving

Its absolutely tragic. How many more have to be sacrificed in this utterly pointless conflict? What are we actually achieving? Why are we even there?

Just get out and leave them to their medieval barbarism, and spare yet more families news like this

Its absolutely tragic. How many more have to be sacrificed in this utterly pointless conflict? What are we actually achieving? Why are we even there?

Just get out and leave them to their medieval barbarism, and spare yet more families news like this

Exactly

Why are we even there?

Because the Taliban government under Mullah Omar refused to hand over Osman Bin Laden to the United States to stand trial for alleged involvement in the attack on the Twin Towers. They did agree to hand him over to a neutral country were he could stand trial but the US and Britain said that was unacceptable. Then soon after the rejection Mullah Omar claimed that the Afghan government had no idea where Osman Bin Laden was, this was deemed unacceptable by the US and Britain who had assured Mullah Omar that Afghanistan would not be attacked if they handed over Bin Laden, so Afghanistan was attacked through air strikes. This allowed the Northern Alliance led by warlords and which only controlled only a very small enclave inside Afghanistan (where 90% of opium production occurred) to seize power. Unable to effectively maintain control of Afghanistan, NATO committed ground troops to help the Northern Alliance. Very soon all attempts to find Osman Bin Laden and arrest him so that he could stand trial were forgotten, and the objective completely changed to one in which the overriding priority became to stop the Taliban regaining power. NATO are still in Afghanistan to “train” the Afghan army, apparently Afghans are rubbish when it comes to fighting wars and even after over 10 years we haven’t finished training them. Although I suspect the real reason we’re still there is that the Afghan government and army can’t be trusted to do what we tell them unless we are there to make certain they do. We are also busy negotiating with the Taliban – apparently they are not as bad as we first thought. Shame we didn’t realise that negotiating with the Taliban was an option over 10 years ago before we went to war.

Interestingly as far back as 1998 the Taliban were apparently considering handing over Bin Laden to the US, but this was scuppered by the US government’s cack-handed behaviour :

Taliban agreed Bin Laden handover in 1998

“The Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar agreed three years ago to hand over Osama bin Laden, but changed his mind after US cruise missile attacks, the former head of Saudi Arabian intelligence said yesterday.

The claim, by Prince Turki al-Faisal, is likely to raise questions about whether more efforts could have been made to negotiate Bin Laden’s extradition before launching the latest bombing campaign.”

I’m sure the fact that the original objective of the attack on Afghanistan, ie to arrest Osman Bin Laden and put on trial, was so quickly and completely forgotten, was the reason why Tony Blair was so confident that he could use disarming Iraq of WMDs as an excuse for attacking Iraq. He undoubtedly assumed that very quickly people would forget why we had attacked and invaded Iraq. Unfortunately for Blair whilst people six months on weren’t asking “so where’s Osman Bin Laden ? why haven’t we arrested him?”, they did in the case of Iraq ask “so where’s these WMDs then ?”. He was extremely unlucky on that score.

Good summary Ernie.

Meanwhile everyone on ground bleeds. Western soldiers, Taliban and civilians. The same blood. The same devastation to families. The same waste of life.

if we pull out all the arms making companies in the uk plc will be seriously short of profits for the next year,and thats not good for cam and his mates, it also takes peeps minds of the problems here and creates jobs in the arms factories and defence related industries, but then theres always syria and israel to start a fight with.

Because its strategically important to an invasion of Iran.

Oh, and Russia!

Just get out and leave them to their medieval barbarism, and spare yet more families news like this

It didn’t work well the last time we did that.

WTC bombing, Somalia, Dhahran, Kenya, Tanzania, Yemen, 911, Shoe Bomber, Djerba, Dirty Bomb Plot, Bali, Mombasa, Riyadh, Casablanca, UN’s headquarters in Baghdad, Istanbul (synagogues, British Consulate and HSBC), golden dome of the al-Askari shrine in Samarra Iraq – one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam, al-Zarqawi & 10s of 1,000s dead in Iraq civil war, Madrid, Khobar, Paul Johnson, Daniel Pearl , London, Edinburgh, Liquid bomb plot, Toner cartridge bomb….. and so on.

Global medieval barbarism

Bit of a sombre atmosphere out here at the moment!!

RIP Fellas, rest easy

RIP lads.

Stand down lads.

Rest easy.

Fu**ing tragic, may all your yomps be downhill lads.

Time to stand easy and let the last call sound..

Guardian story on civilians killed in Afghanistan

Puts the death of these soldiers into perspective.

British soldiers losing their lives is tragic but they were at least combatants.

Women and children murdered in their sleep is another thing entirely.

The only good thing that can come out of this is that NATO will now realise that there position in Afghanistan is now completely untenable and will just get out and yet another military misadventure in Afghanistan will be over.

🙄

Edinburgh

Eh?

What on earth is the point in saying “these deaths were worse than those other ones”?

What on earth is the point in saying “these deaths were worse than those other ones”?

is that a serious question?

Trolly trolly troll!

Fairly poor subject to troll over, if that is the case.

why troll? Can we only discuss issues when our brave boys die but we should not discuss it when someone goes loco and kills lots of innocent people in their homes

I know it is not one of ours but in reality a foreign force cannot win a hearts and minds excercise and certainly not when it burns the Koran and does this.

I suspect Troll is being called because it is easier than discussing the issue.

There is a bit on the chat forum page which says

Topic — Add New »

Why would anyone post about a tragic case of an american soldier going beserk in a thread for passing respects to fallen British soldiers?
To get a response, that’s why and that’s why it’s a clear troll which has failed. Stroll on troller.

why troll? Can we only discuss issues when our brave boys die but we should not discuss it when someone goes loco and kills lots of innocent people in their homes

I know it is not one of ours but in reality a foreign force cannot win a hearts and minds excercise and certainly not when it burns the Koran and does this.

I suspect Troll is being called because it is easier than discussing the issue.

I call troll because only the truly near-sighted would argue that there is greater value in one life than another. Whilst I agree that discussion could be had, i struggle to believe that anyone would be daft enough to compare.

Technically I agree with your sentiment Junky. I’m just inarticulate today…

How is it a troll?

Soldiers losing there life is tragic, no doubt. They are doing something very few of us have the bravery to do.

But they are trained combatants in a war zone. Deaths are to a certain extent expected.

Children shot in their beds aren’t really in the same category. Admittedly it appears to have been the act of one seriously disturbed US soldier acting alone.

Its time we left Afghanistan too many lives are being wasted on all sides.

AndyP – Member
What on earth is the point in saying “these deaths were worse than those other ones”?

is that a serious question?

Yes, but my points were more that:

1. it’s of **** all relevance to this thread
2. it’s not like anyone’s going to say “oh who cares about civilian deaths”
3. a soldier going postal is entirely different.

How is it a troll?

Easy. Because this is a thread about 6 specific soldiers. These soldiers had nothing whatsoever to do with this tragedy. They are dead and people are paying virtual respects. Start another thread.

to be fair the thread title is bad news in afghanistan

id say this qualifies

and the murdering of so many women and children while they slept in their beds will undoubtedly lead to reprisals beyond even the recent upsurge after the koran burnings, including the death of these 6 soldiers

its very relevant and calling troll is the kind of denial of the facts thats left us locked in a cycle of violence with no seeming end

1. it’s of **** all relevance to this thread

Is this not “Bad News in Afghanistan” then?

calling troll is the kind of denial of the facts thats left us locked in a cycle of violence with no seeming end

Perhaps a little dramatic? 😀

Worthy of discussion? yes. this thread? No (IMHO)
Be happy to contribute to a different thread though.

I call troll because only the truly near-sighted would argue that there is greater value in one life than another.

Who is arguing that?

Why would anyone post about a tragic case of an american soldier going beserk in a thread for passing respects to fallen British soldiers?

You didn’t consider, for example, that the former event could lead to more of the latter?

richmtb – Member
1. it’s of **** all relevance to this thread
Is this not “Bad News in Afghanistan” then?

Oh dear, pedantry taken too far & argument lost.

only the truly near-sighted would argue that there is greater value in one life than another.

1. Martin Luther King

2. Charles Milles Manson

equivalent value ?

The taliban have already vowed revenge attacks based on the village shooting

and the base where it happened has seen large demonstrations alreday

ultimately might this speed up the withdrawal of our troops?

People killing other people, it’s all horrible.

Show some respect and stop the petty arguments.

ultimately might this speed up the withdrawal of our troops?

I doubt it. Every time something like this happens, we get the same rhetoric. “Seeing the mission through”, “increasing our resolve” etc etc etc.

Its all sounding increasingly……

It’s all fubar.. as for the troops the term Lions led by donkeys springs to mind..again…..
Total waste of life on both sides IMHO….

ultimately might this speed up the withdrawal of our troops?

Objectives of invasion of Afghanistan:

– capture Osama bin Laden
– restore regional security in South and Central Asia
– restore internal security within Afghanistan
– protect human rights of Afghans
– destroy opium trade
– eliminate al Qaeda base of operations within Afghanistan

Still, 1 out of 6 isn’t too bad, is it?