back road/fireroad type touring – panniers or bikebags ?

just wondering what the general preference is. I do a bit of quiet back road/gravel road weekend B&B type tours every summer and normally use Ortlieb panniers on my Croix De Fer. I do also have a Revelate Pika, which I haven’t actually used in earnest yet. The one time I did I found it a bit tight for weekend space, plus a high centre of gravity compared to panniers. A lot less rattly though when it was a rougher surface, so I’m guessing bike bags generally more for the proper off road useage ?

I get flamed for this but I do quite like riding with panniers on road. But you do need to pay a lot of attention to the rack – make it as close to the frame as possible, and with a compact rear triangle on the frame this can be hard. If your rack is too tall the load will wobble like a git and the whole experience will be terrible. For bumpy off road I’d still consider panniers but only if I was travelling really light.

If I were doing singletrack and technical MTBing I’d pack super light and use a rucksack.

Please note my opinions are currently unfashionable so expect to see them flamed 🙂

We used to use panniers (unfashionable, yes) in Polaris events because we didn’t enjoy the weight of a rucsac pressing our bums down on the saddle. Well-loaded panniers have almost no effect on handling and if you compress them and bind them to the rack with bungees they don’t rattle too much, even off road.

panniers all the time. even use just a single one when pottering offroad.
you don’t want to be sat in the pub on a evening in a load of creased/crunched up clothes, looking like a paraffin……… 😀

Off road I use rucksack, panniers just add weight. I tend to go very light weights don’t take much

Interesting, thanks. If I am doing a regular 3-5 hrs single day off road on the CDF I also go for Camelbak as default. When overnighting panniers just seems less packing faff than the big bike bag, but no doubt lead me to carry some stuff I don’t need !

On a tour last year we did a bit of mild off road, slightly rougher tracks. My panniers have a fitting like a Ortlieb pannier, locking top bits with a stabilising hook lower down. I found that they bounced around a bit despite being set up as rigid as I could get them. My wife had some Axiom panniers borrowed from a friend – they were amazing – they had a strong bungee cord attached to a hook for the lower mount. You hook this bit on and pull the pannier up to hook the top bits on. My word they were rock solid, absolutely faultless. There is a US pannier maker who uses the same system.

I think bikeradar tested the Axiom panniers and found faults with them but Axiom responded strongly as they were “potential” faults they thought might happen based on nothing really. I’m certainly going to buy some to replace my panniers as I thought they were great and will be happy using them off road.

Very much depends on the surface. I make a call either way. Panniers and rack are heavier and can rattle but are more spacious. There’s no “right” answer. Off road the newer style bags win. I don’t find the higher cog an issue and the lack of width makes singletrack easier.

also depends on number of stiles / gates to negotiate – and how much lifting.

If all else fails you can take panniers off, but a heavy bike with saddlebag might be harder. scotroutes will update you on the Speyside Way 🙂

When I did my Plymouth – brighton tour last year, I had frame bag, bar bag, and rack but stuff sack on top of that..
I ish I just used my wildcat saddle pack rather than the rack tbh..
Lighter, less stuff to bring etc!

DrP

yeah, think I need to rationalise what I carry and give the Revelate a better try. All I try to get in is some light evening clothes and fresh ride kit for next day, minimal wash kit, some tools. It’s the light pair of evening trainers that kills the space !

Spare shoes can be a pain to pack. I got a pair of canvas slip-ons with a very lightweight sole (deck shoes I think they were called) from M&S a few years back and they’ve been perfect.

Another thing to consider is moving the weight further forward. I’ve found that the Amazon handles better this way and you’ll often see longer-distance travellers with front panniers only. Even a bar-bag of some sort, carrying all the heavier items, will re-balance the bike a bit and will free up space in teh saddle bag

The saddle bags are popular but they seem to hav the weight in the worst possible place, to me. I don’t even like having a tube and tools hanging off my saddle – the saddle moves around a lot when moving the bike around and weight there seems to affect handling a lot. So attaching a huge pack there seems the worst place for it.

I’d like something that would split that load in half and attach it low down either side of a rack, to keep the CoG as low as possible. Basically low-rider rear panniers with compression straps.

And yet thousands of folk, having tried them out, disagree with you. Like I said above, I go with either system but I don’t notice any of the issues you refer to.
DSC_0137 by ScotRoutes[/url], on Flickr

And yet thousands of folk, having tried them out, disagree with you

I know. I’m allowed to have thoughts about something aren’t I? I used the word ‘seem’ for a reason. Cos that’s how it seems.

Of course, it may be that I am particularly picky about something that others are not 🙂 Having had a small weight on the saddle, it did annoy me, so safe to assume that a large one would annoy me more I think.

It’s a shame I’m not closer. I’d have happily lent you some kit for a trip or two to see how you find it.

I prefer the bike bag approach. If you’re not taking camping kit, you should be able to easily squeeze what you need into a seat post pack.

I have camping kit in a Wildcat tiger seat pack and spare clothes in a dry bag on the handlebars. Tools & tube go in a small triangular frame bag.

If you’re riding in SPDs why take the evening trainers? Embrace being a bike tramp. 😆

If you’re riding in SPDs why take the evening trainers? Embrace being a bike tramp. 😆

jings, the idea of 4 pints and walking back to B&B with cleats – recipe for disaster for me 🙂

whether you go for saddlebags, or panniers (and I had front only on my last little trip, worked pretty well for most part but *not* on rutted paths!) some form of frame bag is a must I’d say – tools, phone battery, any maps, jacket, pump – ideal and right in middle of bike.

footwear – usually a pair of croc-a-likes bungee’d to somewhere.

It’s a shame I’m not closer. I’d have happily lent you some kit for a trip or two to see how you find it.

I’d have happily taken you up on that kind offer too – I do like to keep an open mind 🙂

I may be able to borrow some Wildcat gear.. but then again it may be a moot point since realistically, I’m not going bikepacking any time soon!

Re SPDs – I’d be tempted to buy some of the more casual normal soled SPD compatible cycling shoes if I were doing a relaxed tour with pub stops. There are plenty around. The Keen ones are actually pretty stiff soled but otherwise normal shoes.

flat pedals?

walking back to B&B

No point having a bike if you’re going to walk!

For touring (generally road but the principles are the same) using B&Bs I’ll use a Carradice SQR tourer bag, mounts to the seat post and is easily taken off/put on. If camping then it’s panniers. I’ll also use a handlebar bag (Ortlieb) to hold stuff I need to hand like wallet, phone, camera, suncream(!). For off-road bikepacking (as it gets called these days) then the system Scotroutes shows in the shot above.

This was my setup..

Blog here..

DrP

weight is better on the bars or in a frame bag than out the back in a saddle bag.

I try to pack my saddle bag with the light bulky things like clothes and a sleeping bag. any heavy stuff like food needs to go in first: ie be near the seat post.

Heaviest stuff in bottom of frame bag if possible.

I have panniers and a frame bag and seat pack.
Find the offroad riding I like for a days riding is considerable less fun with luggage of any description.
Panniers and the rear wheel drops into holes/bangs over objects.
Frame bag better but spoils the flip flop direction changes.

For touring off road I prefer the pannier system.
Use Ortlieb City Roller Front bags (20lt) attached to a Tubus Fly rack. Enough space for clothes for more than a week. Panniers are not loose when you use a 2nd hook on each bag and force the bag down the rack legs until the bag top clips engage. Wobble free!
For footwear I am using Patagonia Advocate Lace shoes,pack incredibly thin,even in an 11. Have used Patagonia Thrasher shoes previously which like some other styles have collapsable heels.
The frame bag I have is Alpkit, Fantastic quality ,made to your own pattern. Great value and I recommend the widest width with a divider. But even on a Fargo size large the total storage is not practicle for comfortable touring.

re seatpacks

So attaching a huge pack there seems the worst place for it.

It’s the ‘huge’ bit there that’s the isse. If you’re loading 15lbs onto a bike for a light tour you wouldn’t want more than 5lbs in the seat pack. When it’s evenly distributed it’s no issue. I don’t think I’ve ever had more than 4-5lbs of clothes or similar light but bulky kit there. You see some looking like a fully grown seal tied under the saddle, still wriggling side to side, full of cook kits and all sorts of dense gear like that. Can’t imagine it does anything for the ride.

Heaviest stuff in bottom of frame bag if possible.

+1.

Depends on the purpose of the tour, length of the tour, and terrain. IF its not about big maile or epic tracks, and I’m with my girlfriend, then panniers so we can have one or two comforts. If not the as light as possible, strapped to the bike. No “right” answer.

What I liked about a combination of small frame pack and a seat post mounted bag was how narrow it was getting through some of the squeezes on gravel Sustrans routes. It also stayed mercifully quiet on the Tripster and suited a short, lightweight B&B tour well. I’ve just added a bar bag for this year’s (very) slightly longer tour.

I run Time ATAC pedals on both the MTB and the Tripster so I can swap goretex boots or shoes – and wear some Northwave touring shoes that look kind of trainer-ish and not too dodgy in the pub. Sort of! Saves a load of weight and space, and as the cleats are recessed, there’s no ice skating down stairs problems with them either…

I did a bit of a touring/bikepacking last year on my mtb using frame bag (home made) and seat pack … worked ok

this year im going for panniers on the crosser as its further and flatter so should be alot quicker !

Panniers are not loose when you use a 2nd hook on each bag and force the bag down the rack legs until the bag top clips engage. Wobble free!

If I’ve pictured that correctly in my head, that is genius!

One hook on each rack leg, each facing outward.

Here’s my setup: