autumn international rugby

I did watch the game. England played as well as they can I thought and NZ looked lacklustre. However NZ never looked like losing. Have a look at the stats on scrum.com

Foden looked very good and Ashton OK – good speed of thought. Youngs might be the best england have had for a long time as well.

Croft a bit anonymous for me. I was expecting more.

Why oh why do they play Tindal. Is he really the best? Cueto?

Easter – a conundrem. Remains too slow but a couple of excellent offloads.

Sheridan – is he the worlds most overrated player?

Glitchy glitch glitch

I do think its the best I have seen from England for a while – actually a bit of speed and ambition. need to get rid of a few more of teh donkeys tho and stop kicking the ball away

How many times did the ABs look like scoring a try? Just about every time they ran with the ball.

Utter tripe, many many times they ran into dead ends and knocked on or got turned over like a rusty mattress. Are you suggesting that possesion and territory don’t contribute towards the indication of a teams performance?

England played as well as they can

I’ll admit that, even if it is a damn sight better than scotland could ever dream of. 😀

Foden looked very good and Ashton OK – good speed of thought. Youngs might be the best england have had for a long time as well.

Agreed

Croft a bit anonymous for me. I was expecting more.

Agreed

Why oh why do they play Tindal. Is he really the best? Cueto?

Agreed

Easter – a conundrem. Remains too slow but a couple of excellent offloads.

Sort of, that’s the best I’ve seen him play and thought he was very good indeed.

Sheridan – is he the worlds most overrated player?

Are you smoking crack?

I have no time for Sheridan. Decent scrummager but always vulnerable to give away penalties as he bores in and drops his bind a lot. I thought the refs had sussed him out but maybe not. Gort away with a lot today I though ( but then I was a back mainly)

however outside the scrum he is a waste o time. Flops onto rucks continually giving away penalties, rubbish carrying, too slow around the park. I’d rather have chunk! ( or Vickery or Jenkins or dickinson or a whole load of other guys.

Suddenly coming to life in Dublin…

…even if they lose now, at least they’ve put a show on towards the end

Utter tripe, many many times they ran into dead ends and knocked on or got turned over like a rusty mattress. Are you suggesting that possesion and territory don’t contribute towards the indication of a teams performance?

I’d suggest that the scoreline contributes towards the indication of a team’s performance a lot more than a load of lesser stats. How many points do you get awarded for territory and possession? None.

The point being that the ABs can threaten the goal line every time they carry the ball. OK they got stopped or turned over plenty of times but what puts fear into you most – Muliaini, Carter and Gear carrying the ball or Tindall, Cueto and Flood doing likewise?

England strove manfully to get back into the game and the forwards put in a good effort but they lost it all by going 14-0 when the ABs took two chances on offer.

On the goal line at the end of the 1st half and then the Tindall/Moody 2:1 overlap England had great chances but failed to take them.

Do you see?

So, grab some early points, get thrown around the park, out scrummaged, out rucked, get very little ball, spend 90% of the time in your own half and cling on. I think I see. If they try that with a more experienced team like ireland they’ll mop the floor with them.

Jeez backhander, I wish.

I might have a punt on ireland for the AB game. they didn’t look anything special today IMO. I’ll check the weather forecast first!

Sheridan is crap, go watch the wales Australia game and see what a real loosehead does.

Mind you Tindal takes the biscuit for real complete and utter shite, couldnt pass water that bloke.

Englands New Zealanders did alright for them though

Sheridan is crap, go watch the wales Australia game and see what a real loosehead does.

Blah blah blah, You must practice a LOT.

Sheridan is huge and not even a very good scrumager, did you watch the wales game, Jenkins was immense at the breakdown, runs tackles and can scrumage better than Sheridan who since refs noticed his failure to bind preferring his hand on the floor has been a busted flush. OK crap is over stating it but he isnt in the top rank of loose heads in the world despite what any braying england fan will tell you.

That was an interesting game by the ABs. I’ve not seen them play that badly for ages-really poor support play. I thought England put up a good show and if they continue to try and run the ball like that they will come right for the RWC.
However WTF was the referee smoking ? That England try had an offside, a takeout off the ball and a double movement. The ab’s scrum was penalised pretty consistently for…no particular reason and macaw got away with lots of interference as usual. Poor show from the ref. 10/10 for toeavas takeout to stop the try. Enjoyable game though but ab’s need to refocus because they were blistering earlier in the year.

Having now watched the 1st half of Wales/Australia and then skipped to the last 15 mins of the match (oh the shame!), I can’t believe Wales lost to Australia. It makes me laugh that they spend hours and hours in the gym, in ice baths, studying diet and nutrition etc, when they lost the match because they can’t think logically and adapt on the rugby pitch. I can only imagine how fast it actually is on the international field but surely the watching coaches could have instructed Wales to take the Aussies on up front (where were the rolling mauls?). In the scrum when Wales had demolished them once more and were awarded a penalty, instead of kicking to touch, they should have opted for another scrum, and then another. The end result not only do the Australian forwards get knackered but they can’t run around the field, they make mistakes because they are tired and most importantly they become honest at scrum time. When Elsom and co had to stay down and scrummage near the end, Wales wheeled the srum and surprise, surprise, the Aussie back row were nowhere to be seen, and could’nt get across in time to tackle Rees. Its unbelievable that an international side can play without a scrum and still win…. although with all the law changes oper he past 15 years designed to make Rugby Union effectively Rugby League, I’m not surprised….Rant Over!!

If the braindead lump Powell had been at 8 he would have looked a world beater yesterday, put Ryan Jones at 6 alongside him and wales could well have won that match, saw a stat that showed that Thomas the 8 carried 9 times and made a total of ten yards playing behind a front five who were demolishing their opposition. Hook was shite at 15 and when he needed to kick long he put in some stupid chip and when he needed to keep the ball in hand and counter, he again put in some stupid chip. add back Byrne, 1/2p and Roberts to the backs put Hook back to centre and it would have been very close. Come the world cup 1/4’s that could be a big game.

On the positive side Warburton continues to improve and will have learnt a lot, as does Bradley Davis who is the perfect big ugly lump to play alongside AWJ.

As a final request could someone shoot Bennett because as soon as he comes onto the pitch the welsh lineout disintergrates.

Thought that England looked a lot better than I thought that they would. The ABs have just come off the Tri-Nations and look like a team used to playing together, hence could get away with a lack luster performance. The English scrum looked very powerful, thought that Cole was outstanding. Tindell had a poor game and is probably heading out the door. If you are going to play Hape you need some creative skills to complement him.

The Hartley try should never been allowed, by the Hape try that was disallowed should have been a penalty try since the ‘tackle’ that forced him into touch was illegal.

One day a ref is going to send McCaw off. He got away (again) with a serious of infringements that for most players would have sent them off to the early bath!

Oh and there should be a citing for the deliberate head but on Moody. But I bet that won’t happen!

If the accidental spearer is cited so should the gouging kiwi **** for his assualt on McCaw. Only saw the highlights but the ref looked poor Macaw got away with murder and englands try was just bizare.

Also how the ref in the wales game didnt bin an aussie prop seeing as how they gave away a pen at almost every wales put in yet sent Shanks to the bin for an early tackle was somewhat annoying and goes someway to explaining how austalia have managed to get away with no scrum for so long,

There was no double movement in that try, he just put his arm out which is legal. I’d probably have binned armitage for the high tackle and McCaw for well any number of things but he gets away with it. His referee awareness is amazing! The ABs were under too much pressure in the scrum and folded, wheeled etc. England STILL giving away silly penalties. You won’t see the ABs play that badly often and england failed to take advantage. I though Lawes played very well indeed, well beyond his years.

I agree there was no double movement but the pass was well forward I also make no bones about the fact I cant stand the gouging ****. Only saw the highlights but tindal looked a joke, I kept thinking it was some prop appearing in midfield to slow everything down and generally **** it up. The moment all he had to do was draw the last man and pass and he failed to draw the defender and appeared to just throw the ball at the floor was tragic. He was never a world class player but he was a good international, now he’s a joke.

Highlights prog doesnt really allow you to asses forwards much, Cole looks the real thing though, England should have the tools to beat australia

backhander – Member

There was no double movement in that try, he just put his arm out which is legal.

Indeed. Its about as far as you can go without being a double movement but once grounded you cvan place the ball. There was a blatant offside before it tho – man miles in front of the kicker.

The tackle on Hape was fine – arms were used.

Yawn. I have always felt the best part about southern hemisphere rugby, especially the AB’s, is that they really know all about team work, the glory boys only take the glory when they are free and clear, the rest of the time they move the ball out rapido so that they make the most of the numbers. Northern europeans just always carry the ball late into every tackle and only think about the offload once that have realised that their hope of breaking tackles and making a glory run is over. ..

Tindall was the worst at this yesterday, his days are numbered so he just keeps trying to go for glory every time, instead of moving the ball out.

The rest of the analysis here I think is bunkum. Wales and England have great players, who would look all the better if they perfected team work.

Although I would say that this

One day a ref is going to send McCaw off. He got away (again) with a serious of infringements that for most players would have sent them off to the early bath!

is the tip of the ice berg, I think Kiwis go to ref spotting and cheating school, the number of obstructions carried out by kiwi players on our runs yesterday was amazing, whilst I don’t condone this, it’s another example of effective team work.

I think Kiwis go to ref spotting and cheating school, the number of obstructions carried out by kiwi players on our runs yesterday was amazing

Exactly – they are smarter all round rugby players than anyone else. That’s why we (England) don’t beat them very often, Wales hardly ever beat them and Scotland and Ireland have NEVER beaten them.

So, grab some early points, get thrown around the park, out scrummaged, out rucked, get very little ball, spend 90% of the time in your own half and cling on. I think I see. If they try that with a more experienced team like ireland they’ll mop the floor with them.

Heh Heh BackHander you’re hacked off England didn’t win aren’t you? If games were decided on territory and possession alone England would’ve won about 15 Grand Slams in the last 20yrs and probably 3 or 4 RWCs.

Unfortunately I’ve seen every England game for over 30yrs and although we’ve consistently had one of the best packs in world rugby we’ve NEVER really been able to take advantage except for during the early 90s and under SCW up to 2003. Most of the time we don’t have the required mindset to do the things that the SH teams seem to do automatically.

I’m not saying Danny Cipriani is the Messiah but his position exemplifies English rugby’s attitude. If he were an Aussie they’d have found a slot for him away from the pressure cooker environment of fly-half and stuck him in at full back or wing to get him up to speed at international level. By now he could be a seasoned international and stepping up at fly-half instead of chasing tail Down Under.

The ABs started Carter at centre initially. Giteau played all over the backline for the Aussies and now O’Connor has been fast tracked in on the wing. If only we could get our best and most talented young players brought on like that we’d have more of a chance.

Anyway, I look forward to debating with you lot about some England wins later in the season………

Slightly worrying to see empty seats at all the games. However, if you take out the big twickers/wembpley games, the Premiership crowds appear to be declining for a year or two. Numbers watching the games in pubs seem to have declined too.

Did not see the games (as out biking!) so can’t comment. Getting within 10 points of NZ at home i’d not be happy with and from what i read in the Sunday Times, NZ never really look like loosing.

Heh Heh BackHander you’re hacked off England didn’t win aren’t you?

Not even in the slightest, I was encouraged by the performance. I’d expected an utter whitewash and it would’ve been if we did our normal thing IMO. New faces and a more expansive game, too late for the next 6N or WC though. I agree about all of the comments about tindall, I think he was put there as a lump because MJ was (rightly) petrified of Nonu and Williams. Not convinced by Flood either.

Just watched the England game and from a non-biased Welsh point of view, I thought the scrum half was very good, excellent pass and very good attacking awareness.Also really like the full back – Ashton? and also Hartley is potentially a world beater. On the downside when Hape had the try disallowed they should have scored – all the person two players in had to do was straighten up and it was try time…

Full back is Foden who is a good player, Ashton is the winger, still not convinced by him, good runner but lacks composure when he needs to pass.

I thought all 3 games were very unsatisfying.

None of the NH teams had actually worked out tactics to beat their opponents, they just reverted to type and hoped that a good scrum or good defence would be enough.

Wales lacked imagination – no excuses for missing players, if they couldn’t work out what Australia were doing on Saturday at home then there’ll be be no beating them in the WC next year.

I can’t agree with Backhander (I rarely do 🙂 ) The score didn’t flatter NZ, because England NEVER looked like winning the game. If England had got within a score I’d have put money on NZ scoring another try to win the game with a clear margin. The optimism in the ‘national’ press last week is quite funny in hindsight. BTW, are England aware that they don’t need to fill every position of the team with a different nationality?

I hadn’t paid much attention to the build up to the Irish game. I had noticed that they were apparently favourites – according to the press anyway – because SA were 13 1st choice players down. Unfortunately nobody had bothered to check on the quality of the players they brought in, which seems an oversight when all those players are on Sky in the S14 or Currie Cup almost every week. Very worrying that there is so much strength in depth in the SH but not in the NH (France apart).

Can Ireland win a game without ROG on the pitch? I’d say they must be a bit worried about that.

BTW, for all you posters talking about NH sides being better scrummagers – it’s irrelevant, they don’t win games anymore. Yes, a side may get awarded a handful of penalties from a strong scrum, but the line-out is far more important these days.

I can only see the SH sides getting stronger. I think maybe England will beat the Ozzies, but only if they hide the ball – if they try throwing it about they’ll commit suicide. Wales CAN beat SA but I worry that NZ will give them a good hammering. As to Ireland, well it all depends on ROG. 😆

Mealamu has been cited for head-butting Moody in a ruck. With any luck this nasty player will be out for a long time – he should have been banned in perpetuity after the BOD spear tackle.

IdleJon – Member

I thought all 3 games were very unsatisfying.

And a load of other stuff….

Pretty much spot on IdleJohn.

I wouldn’t say the scrum is irrelevant because if two sides are otherwise evenly matched then it’s still advantageous. It doesn’t win you the game alone though as England’s 1st test defeat to the Aussies proved when they destroyed their scrum, getting two penalty tries but still lost due to general ineptituide in all other facets of that game.

Of all the Home Nations I think England could step up if they found some top class players at 7, 10, 11, 12 & 13.

Unfortunately as we seem to refuse to pick any genuine opensides I don’t know whether any are good enough or not.

Although Cueto is decent allround player who performs consistently he doesn’t threaten with ball in hand like Strettle, Monye etc. Flutey can do the job at 12 when fit even if he’s no Will Greenwood. Tindall (great player though he was) is not really the man for the 13 jersey anymore but who is? Tait’s been given many chances and never impressed much. JSD seems destined to never get back in so who does that leave? Maybe a wing or fullback could be converted?

THe SH teams seem to be able to get their talented players up to speed at international rugby then move them where they’re needed. Look at Umaga, Larkham, Giteau etc.

Fly half – oh dear. Wilkinson is still the best of the bunch IMHO. By now we should have known if Cipriani was up to it or not but that’s been so poorly managed maybe we’ll never know……

I have it on very good authority that Cipriani messed it up for himself which ended with MJ throwing him around (by the neck) 8O. An absolute tosser by all accounts, I hope the aussies can beat some sense into him.

backhander – Member

I have it on very good authority that Cipriani messed it up for himself which ended with MJ throwing him around (by the neck) 8O. An absolute tosser by all accounts, I hope the aussies can beat some sense into him.

You have it on good authority do you?

Really….. I’ll be having a chat with someone in the office in the morning then…

Not exactly given away any trade secrets, have I?
Christ it was all over the newspapers at the time.
Previous post edited to take the ladies face out of shot

Here’s a tip. Don’t always believe what you read in tomorrows fish’n’chip paper. Or friends of friend of friends etc..

Thanks for the life-lesson……. 🙄

You’re very welcome. Thanks for the tips about what goes on behind closed doors in international rugby..

You would be welcome, but I didn’t give you any tips. I recycled a story which made the national newspapers.

Oh national newspapers = facts. I see now..