Army Clearing Snow in Edinburgh – Political Stunt?

a couple more gritters and snow ploughs – dunno how many they had out but I doubt 2 extra would have made a huge difference.

its wasn’t just a bit of ordinary winter. I have never seen snow like that before 2 feet + of snow lying.

Surely the nursing home is fairly sel-contained and well supplied. I don’t imagine the residents would have been up and about if the snow had been cleared. Why would they be a priority?

pixelmix – Member

“It does seem a bit ridiculous though that Central Scotland should grind to a halt on Monday. It was barely below freezing on Monday, and yet there was chaos across the city.”

Exactly, and think about what that means- things were kept moving in far worse conditions the week before, with the same resources and the same approach.

It wasn’t any of that which caused the collapse on monday, it was just the timing and the traffic. A perfect storm if you like- a fairly clear morning and an improving forecast so the traffic was back almost to normal levels. So you’ve got the usual traffic issues then you bury it. The salt and grit you’ve already dropped is buried. Your gritters are just another bit of stuck traffic. So what is the solution? More stuck gritters?

“I’m no suggesting that we should see no disruption, but given that Edinburgh council has not carried out much rubbish collection or road repairs for the last two weeks, presumably these employees could be redeployed of keeping streets clear?”

I can’t speak for binmen but the road crews have been out clearing snow just as you suggest- it was them that unblocked my road on tuesday, with a bunch of diggers. They also work in the grit depots loading up the trucks. And their trucks are convered to gritters, with a plough on the front and a gritting machine on the back.

If you’re thinking “Wow, it’s so obvious, they should totally do that”- what makes you think they don’t already?

“CharlieMungus – Member

Surely the nursing home is fairly sel-contained and well supplied. I don’t imagine the residents would have been up and about if the snow had been cleared. Why would they be a priority?”

Was just thinking the same. At the home my grandma was in they cleared an entrance path, the fire exits and a couple of car parking spaces for the critical staff (and doctor if need be) but no more, and why bother? It’s not as though the residents were about to go for a jog. Makes more sense to send the army out to clear the driveways of fit people

I believe that the reason they cleared the road to the Astley Ainslie was so that a fuel truck could get in to supply heating oil. That seems like a fairly sensible use of their time.

The point I made was why should the council pay them at all to help out given that they are being paid & sick paid & holiday paid & pensioned anyway. Either help out for free or stay in barracks.

Frankly, given what might be seen as the extreme nature of the situation, I don’t see why local taxpayer’s money should be given to the MOD who are funded anyway (though that might be argued by some within the Government).

BUT, if the MOD is getting paid extra by the Council (and it seems it is the MOD who will get the money not “the Army”) then surely the soldiers should be getting a cut of it as they are just back from theatre and deserve a break. I doubt whether they’ll see any of it though.

pixelmix

How much would it cost to have a couple of gritters / snow ploughs kept in a shed somewhere?

Quite a lot of money – even more to have enough to make a difference for the worst snow in how long? 40 years or so? You pay for the building you store them in, you pay the depreciation, you pay for the maintenance, you pay for the manpower to fix them, you pay for more people to operate them, the running costs etc.
We have been very unlucky on the weather recently – 3 years of ’20 year’ weather in a row. Not the sort of odds you’d bet on. It costs a lot to operate like Sweden, Denmark etc with their predictable, long winters. It really would be a waste of scarce taxpayers money to have all that kit sitting around for a week or two every couple of years.

Either help out for free or stay in barracks.

Trash – shut up. The MoD gets funds to do tasks set out by central government – training, operations etc. If another government department wants them to do something outside their defined roles, then costs fall where they lie. Funds are transferred between high level budgets. There aren’t the numbers in the Forces or the spare funds to do what used to be done on a grace and favour basis.

TandemJeremy a couple more gritters and snow ploughs – dunno how many they had out but I doubt 2 extra would have made a huge difference.

its wasn’t just a bit of ordinary winter. I have never seen snow like that before 2 feet + of snow lying.

Just wait till next weekend mate 😉

I’m just back from Bavaria today. It’s snowed 2 feet of snow in one night, by 10am all roads were clear, gritted & perfectly drivable, even small country roads.
Everyone was out with snow shovels to clear the paths, a real community effort.
It was very impressive.
The snow tyres that are required by law are excellent too.
People in the UK always seem shocked when it snows.
The council definately needs to get a grip & the community needs to take responsibility too.

I see the transport minister has jacked.

The council definately needs to get a grip & the community needs to take responsibility too

Someone always trots out this BS. They have the equipment to deal with it. We do not. If we bought it folk would be moaning about wastig taxpayers money. Bet you never do that eh?

Just think of the amount of snow ploughs and under road heating you could buy with half a billion quid…

Much more predicable snow in Bavaria though. Pretty sure on one of the news programmes a reporter said it was Edinburgh’s heaviest snow since 1963. There’d be no point buying all the gear for a once in a 50 year fall.

Place ground to a halt earlier in the year due to snow and ice too though. Just because it’s the worst since 1963 doesn’t mean that its the only time it’s been bad enough to close the place down.

Just because it’s the worst since 1963 doesn’t mean that its the only time it’s been bad enough to close the place down.

OK then – twice since 1963. Not the best return on an investment – I’m sure you’d be whining like a girl with a skinned knee over your taxes paying for a fleet of barely-used snow clearing vehicles costing millions and doing squat.

So who else cleared their pavement? I did *Smug*

Despite the fact that there are loads of commercial outfits in my stair and on the street I cleared a good chunk of the pavement – which shamed a coule of the neighbouring businesses to do so as well

cynic-al – Member
The council definately needs to get a grip & the community needs to take responsibility too
Someone always trots out this BS. They have the equipment to deal with it. We do not. If we bought it folk would be moaning about wastig taxpayers money. Bet you never do that eh?

I’ll clarify this BS for the hard of thought.
It snows every year in Scotland does it not?
This ‘equipment’ the Germans have include cheap snow shovels and people who are willing to clear the paths for the good of the community.
I don’t expect the amount of gritters etc as the Germans but I bit of effort on major roads & a bit of backbone from us lot is not too much to expect.
I’ve had people phone in saying they can’t make work because of snow even though they live in the city, they’re horrified by the suggestion of walking.
The council also have ploughs & gritters, surely major roads could have been done to keep the busses going?
It’s the BS that the council trot out that you should be concerned with.
At least the transport minister thinks it was a balls up and resigned.
We need to accept & expect bad weather up here & stop making excuses.

For the hard of thinking

It snows every year in Scotland does it not?

Nope – not in the cities – I have never seen snow like this in 30 years. Even last year was a much much smaller amount

The council also have ploughs & gritters, surely major roads could have been done to keep the busses going?

Ploughs and gritters working flat out.

The main road by my house was ploughed and gritted at least twice a day and the snow still built up on it – thats how severe the snow was.

this was a truly exceptional event

This ‘equipment’ the Germans have include cheap snow shovels and people who are willing to clear the paths for the good of the community.

They have to do so by law IIRC.

I take you’ve not been in Edinburgh for the last fortnight?

Like TJ says, truly exceptional.

Ok, worse than usual, it was pretty bad last year though iirc.
But should we not adopt strategies from other countries?
Should it be law for the community to clear the path outside of their property?
Should winter tyres be a requirement?
Should people be better prepared for bad weather regarding footwear & clothing?
I’ve not been here the last few days, but have seen most of it & still walked 5 miles to work.
I still think council & community could do better.

2wheels1guy – Member
Should it be law for the community to clear the path outside of their property?

Yes

Should winter tyres be a requirement?

Possibly – although in some conditions last week, even they were not good enough and I don’t think we have the snow pattern to be driving with chains.

Should people be better prepared for bad weather regarding footwear and clothing?

A bit too “nanny-state”? I mean, have you seen how some young girls dress these days? 😉

I’ve not been here the last few days, but have seen most of it & still walked 5 miles to work.

I cycled 31km each day. It was fine.

I still think council & community could do better.

Community – yes. Council? I tend to agree with the above assessment – until this weather becomes a regular occurrence, it isn’t cost-effective to provide a lot more resources.

There was claims it the worst snow in over 45 years on our local weather the other week but the earliest, coldest and longest spell in over 250 years. The council worked hard to keep the main roads clear and the pavements in the town centres. We’re not a scandanavian country we dont have their high taxes and annual snow.

Council response has been pretty good here. Would seriously question how Amey and Bear have coped with problems on trunk roads and also how Traffic Scotland disseminated information (if I see another variable message board saying “Caution Snow” this winter I’ll tear it down by hand).

Scotrail / Network are a fcking shambles too. Services still severely disrupted days after the last of the bad weather.

Glad Stevenson has gone. His performance on Newsnight on Monday was horrific.

I wonder what it’ll be on Friday in Auld Reekie.

When is it the army all clear off on their Christmas leave?

Next weeks Snowmageddon event looks pretty tasty for Scotland.

Nah don’t worry, it’ll be fine gwaelod, all the disruption was personally caused by Stewart Stevenson, now he’s gone it’ll all be fine.