Are there any happy teachers out there ???

But I thought it wasn’t all about pay?

The nurses union was asking for a 19% rise IIRC, it certainly is about pay for many public sector workers.

I feel like your mind is already made up though.

One union for all bank workers would definitely change that, ie organization. But it doesn’t exist

In my day, it was NUBE and then BIFU. I think they covered 80-90% of financial workers. It wouldn’t take massive industrial action to cripple the workings of the banks though – a few folk in data centres would be enough to halt payment processing in the UK.

I’m a happy teacher

Ah – see your comment’s now been edited. 🙂

That’s great, more power to you – many in the industry appear not to be.

When my lad was at school it changed to an academy.

A new head was parachuted in as the school was an utter mess. I approached her one parents evening to discuss my concerns that my lad hardly ever got homework and consistently had ever changing supply teachers for some subjects. I did understand that some of this was out of her control but was surprised how dismissive she was.

A few weeks after that I and all the other parents got a letter sent through the post. There were a fair few sheets inside with cgi graphics of the school etc showing how the current building work they were having done would make the school look once completed.

That’s not the odd part. The aim of the letter was to get parents to lobby the council as the head wanted the building painted a certain colour and the council denied the request as it didn’t fit in with the area.

So the head wasn’t too concerned about staffing levels etc but very concerned about the colour the new building was going to be painted. Wtf?!

(Not moaning about teachers by the way but about the management side of things and the odd priorities on occasion.)

I’m my science staffroom of 15:

1 leaving teaching after 1 year, thinks its too hard

1 leaving out school for a better one

1 leaving teaching after 4 years because he hates it

I considering leaving teaching for the second time (me).

1 bursts into tears on a weekly basis.

1 thinking about packing in all extra responsibilities due to parents supporting kids over the school after 30 years

1 aiming for part time

1 was aiming for leadership, has backtracked and is now thinking about leaving teaching

1 has been trying to leave our school and get promoted without success for 4 years.

6 seem happy enough.

Two science technicians.
Ones on long term sick
One is starting to think about leaving after a year.

So in a nice school with a mixed catchment 2/3 don’t like their current role.

What’s it like in your team?

If all the lowly paid branch workers at a major high street bank walked out, it would simply serve to lose them customers and they’d be shooting themselves in the foot longer term.

Or they could get a job at another bank for more pay if they were in massive short supply. Teachers can’t do that. Not enough recruited, not enough retained but still over 10+ years wages stay well below inflation every year

So in a nice school with a mixed catchment 2/3 don’t like their current role.

I have a feeling that you’d get the same range of replies in pretty much every workplace that you asked that question.

Two of my friends quit teaching after a year.

My sister recently quit after 20+ years.

Three of my friends are pretty happy, but two work in (different) special needs schools, and the other one works in a private school, all of which have decent funding, staffing, facilities, equipment etc.

And they have a monopoly on the market.

Private schools are available, you crack on. But I think the term you’re looking for to describe them is ‘an essential public service’.

Or they could get a job at another bank for more pay if they were in massive short supply. Teachers can’t do that. Not enough recruited, not enough retained but still over 10+ years wages stay well below inflation every year

That’s a point, if education were to operate like the vaunted private sector then maths/science teachers would be massively well paid, as there aren’t enough of them for the roles available. Yet as it’s public sector they’re limited by the defined payscales. Turns out this govt is capitalist until people want to be rewarded for the scarcity of their skillset…

The nurses union was asking for a 19% rise IIRC

No the were after a set percentage above inflation (before inflation shot up) employers lowballed the offer , inflation shot up suddenly papers are saying that they are demanding 19%. It’s not what they set out for.

In my science dept when I started 9years ago there were 12 staff. After 1/2 term there will be 6. Maths depts in the region are offloading 1 period of S1 and S2 maths because no school can recruit enough maths teachers. Education in Scotland needs investment in infrastructure and pay to attract and keep staff. The age demographic has shifted, many older teachers but questionnaires have shown that those over 55 are looking for as early a finish as possible, hence why career wind down was scrapped.

I’m a happy ex-teacher. Left about 8 years ago. Taught Maths, but fortunately I had an MEng degree so jumping ship for me was quite easy. Others who I knew at the time wanted to leave but only had education degrees/experiences and found it harder to jump.

I really enjoyed the classroom time, I found it really rewarding. I found the pay then quite insulting. Not only did I have to be sh!t hot at Maths, being able to teach anything from Maths and Further Maths at A-level down to teaching a class full of bottom set year 8 kids who still struggled with multiplying two single digit numbers. I also had to be an expert in looking after children, which is a skill in its own right.

I used to limit myself to working 7am to 7pm during the week, finishing at 4pm on a Friday but then working 4pm till usually later than 7pm on a Sunday to get a head start on preparing for the next week. I would just about be able to keep on top of lesson planning and marking with that routine. There would be some longer term planning done and exploring ideas for doing something a bit innovative at half terms and for a few days at each end of term holiday.

I work for an Engineering consultancy now. I get paid more and work less hours than when when I was teaching. Heck, my job isn’t even that well paid compared with others. Teachers need to be paid more for what they do.

If our current government has any respect for our children, not to mention any clue about forward planning for the state of the workforce in a couple of decades time, they’d fund education properly.

Taught Maths..Not only did I have to be sh!t hot at Maths..

I also had to be an expert in looking after children, which is a skill in its own right.

Were you aware that some of these may have been somewhere in the job description of a maths teacher before you applied? 😀

(Edit : Of course, I will be quickly shot down by people saying that kids and maths would never be in a maths teacher’s job description.) 😀

No the were after a set percentage above inflation (before inflation shot up) employers lowballed the offer , inflation shot up suddenly papers are saying that they are demanding 19%. It’s not what they set out for.

I heard Pat Cullen (RCN Gen Sec) interviewed and sticking with the 19%, but saying it was an opening position.

You may be right about how they arrived at it, but I’m pretty sure that was still the demand.

If our current government has any respect for our children, not to mention any clue about forward planning for the state of the workforce in a couple of decades time, they’d fund education properly.

If our current government has any respect for our children then this wouldn’t have happened

The Rt Hon Gavin Williamson @GavinWilliamson has been appointed Secretary of State @educationgovuk pic.twitter.com/w9nOiedsgg

— UK Prime Minister (@10DowningStreet) July 24, 2019

Its been all (even more) downhill since Frank Spencer took over

Were you aware that some of these may have been somewhere in the job description of a maths teacher before you applied? 😀

What s stupid question. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

Mrs Pondo just told me that the DfE and some of Ofsted are also striking today. That seems to have received strangely little media coverage.

To answer the OP.

Yes, there are.

I’ve stuck around in education for 25 years or so now so and still enjoy coming to school every (most…) day, so either there’s something wrong with me or things ain’t that bad.

I’ve stuck around in education for 25 years or so now so and still enjoy coming to school every (most…) day, so either there’s something wrong with me or things ain’t that bad.

Or maybe there’s things you like that outweigh being massively undervalued and not having financial security. That’s normal, I’d have said. In my brief career as a university lecturer I really enjoyed the teaching part (less so the research) but it wasn’t possible to keep on just managing to pay the bills every month, so I sold my soul to the Devil.

Or they could get a job at another bank for more pay if they were in massive short supply. Teachers can’t do that

Err no, as despite massive staff shortages, at the lower end of the salary scales, All the major banks pay their workers in these roles similar rates. You can’t just up and go to another bank to the same job for more cash. There may be one or two exceptions but in the main, if you want more money you either apply for a promotion, or you get another job outside the industry

Teachers have exactly the same choice available to them.

not having financial security

Eh?

i can’t think of many jobs that are more financially secure than a teacher. As far as I can tell, unless you do something hugely inappropriate your job is secure for life. How many other sectors can you say that about?

i can’t think of many jobs that are more financially secure than a teacher.

I mean yes if you define this to mean that some amount of money is paid on a regular basis and is essentially guaranteed by the government. Less so if you hope that this will be enough money to actually compensate you for the work you need to do/live on.

i can’t think of many jobs that are more financially secure than a teacher.

Secure in the sense that what you have today you will probably (only) have tomorrow, sure, but not in the sense that you can respond to events like, say, increasing your family size, or needing to stop working before you drop dead, or your electricity bill doubling. Perhaps “financiual security” was not a good way to phrase it.

30 years this summer in primary. Main stream then 18 years supply and now 4 years as a primary TA. It isn’t horrible but the pressures are whopping all of which impact on actual teaching. I am in a class of only 23. Thing is that is all 4 KS 2 year groups with a Y6 working at Y1 level English and a new this week disabled kid in a wheel chair with minimal schooling. That effectively means that the teacher has to plan 6 different maths lessons for each day of the week. English is “only” 4! The new lad arrived with virtually nothing in the way of paperwork or equipment as his carers hadn’t bothered, assuming that we would and soft old Head wouldn’t say no when he arrived empty handed.
I shouldn’t be seeing the best teacher I have worked with in tears at break time purely because of the work load. She only did 8 hours today in school today as she bring and gets the kids. God know what she will do when she gets home. Tea will be easy. It will be her lunch which she didn’t get .
I think that the reason why so many teachers moan is the work load and more to the point the expectation that you can fit a quart into a pint pot.
What galls me is the fact that some professions that are important are treated so badly because they rely on peoples good will and desire to help. It isn’t the money for many people, it is the feeling that we as a country are playing catch up in education.yet are not prepared to pay for it.
Unrelated but why do we have to “grow”? Why do we need to have more of everything each year? We, as a society have way too many luxuries as it is.

in the sense that you can respond to events like, say, increasing your family size, or needing to stop working before you drop dead, or your electricity bill doubling

Fair enough that makes sense. Although that’s pretty much the same for all normal working folks nowadays. But if they feel striking is going to improve things, then who can blame them for doing so

It’s because public sector pay has risen much less than private sector pay in response to inflation.

ONS stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/professionalandscientificindustrytheonlyonewherepaycontinuestomatchrisingprices/2022-11-23

Quote from that link: “Regular pay growth in the public sector was 2.2% in July to September 2022, while in the private sector it was 6.6%.”

And that period is very likely to be indicative of the last year or so.

Does it make more sense now? Feeling more sympathy for the strikers?

I’m not unsympathetic to strikers but I do wonder if the ONS data stacks up against reality.  I don’t any private sector employer who has been awarding double digit payrises but I know of many who have been 0-3% so to get an average of 6.6% somewhere is throwing money around.

, I’m sure all the folks in my bank would go on strike if we thought we could get away with it without being sacked

You know that’s (currently) illegal right, sacking people for exercising their right to withdraw their labour?

its not quite as simple as that though.  If you go on strike and the business realises it can function without you then they can make you redundant in due course.  Likewise if you go on strike and actually harm the business’ profits then its not unlikely that there will be redundancies that follow.  That model is less applicable to public sector staff because they are all cost not profit centres and the demand for their services is not usually flexible enough to simple close it down.

i can’t think of many jobs that are more financially secure than a teacher. As far as I can tell, unless you do something hugely inappropriate your job is secure for life

Teachers have redundancies and shit ones can be done for incompetence, just like any other role.

What galls me is the fact that some professions that are important are treated so badly because they rely on peoples good will and desire to help. It isn’t the money for many people, it is the feeling that we as a country are playing catch up in education.yet are not prepared to pay for it.

Absolutely – seems to me that teaching, like the NHS and much of the public sector relies heavily on the goodwill and extra hours that people put in for free, just to keep their heads above water. Mrs Pondo’s last week was a 60 hour week, and that ever-increasing extra time that she (and countless hundreds of thousands of others) gives up every week for free is not sustainable, and it’s not fair.

I don’t any private sector employer who has been awarding double digit payrises but I know of many who have been 0-3% so to get an average of 6.6% somewhere is throwing money around

*Raises hand* – smidge over 10% last year.

They are poorly skilled, young people with little general knowledge, even though they are decent and committed. Many of them just don’t know how to reach and engage people. They have been taught nothing about the psychology and neurology of kids and learning or how to plan learning. So all they can do is download worksheets from Twinkle on whatever the subject is and give them to the kids, most of whom really aren’t responding.

@molgrips – that really surprises me.  Literally nothing there is consistent with me experience as the relatively recent parent of a primary pupil, as the family friend of someone studying teacher training right now, nor some voluntary work I am doing right now with the local school.

Teachers have exactly the same choice available to them.

They do, and many have.  The ones who stay then have to pick up the mess.  Eventually they might leave too then you get the hell molgrips described above where jobs are filled by incompetent people or left empty and there are no classes.  I think teachers who believe in education are quite keen to avoid that, do the best for young people and the country, because it will take at least a decade to recover from the bottom of the pit when you get there.  If everyone starts leaving banking you’d expect, fairly quickly, bank management to realise there’s a problem and do something to fix it.

But I thought it wasn’t all about pay?

The problem with negotiating on the other stuff is its very difficult to make tangible.  Pay is a very simple negotiating point, the government knows what it will cost.  The union knows what it achieved.  The members can measure the effectiveness of the union.  How can a government minister do something meaningful about the culture?  (even if they scrap something like league tables – the behaviour is entrenched in management and parents and will no disappear quickly). How can a gov minister solve a staff shortage (other than increasing wages)?  How would the union measure if those promises were going to make its members happy?  How can a gov minister tackle violence against teachers? or parental expectations?

Err no, as despite massive staff shortages, at the lower end of the salary scales, A

So shortages don’t lead to pay rises for bank workers. Obviously these fat cat bankers should have paid more attention in economics lessons at school!!

The argument about teachers’ pay is more nuanced than it appears IMO.

While I have suffered the same real terms decrease as all teachers over the last 10+ years, with my experience and current role I’m by no means poorly paid compared to the average salary (for example) and fairly well insulated from economic troubles right now. All of us who have stayed in the precession this long and taken extra responsibilities would arguably be in a similar situation.

That’s not to say that less experienced teachers, and especially support staff, aren’t struggling though and it’s that group that need a decent result from the current strike action.

I’m not unsympathetic to strikers but I do wonder if the ONS data stacks up against reality.

That’s right, the government’s own stats team are **** up the figures to make it look like the public sector are hard done by.

That’s not to say that less experienced teachers, and especially support staff, aren’t struggling though and it’s that group that need a decent result from the current strike action.

And that’s why I’m supporting civil service strike action. I’m alright, Jack, but the majority of my colleagues aren’t.

My wife is the Headteacher of a medium sized Primary School, just got home. I asked how many of her teachers were striking, none. Read into this what you will.

Happy teacher earlier:

https://i.postimg.cc/TYjG6VwL/IMG-20230201-WA0000-1.jpg

If you are a teacher, even a happy one, don’t check on the pay, hours and working conditions of your European counterparts. 😉

They are already so reduced in relative pay that they cannot afford a day without pay? The school is in an impoverished area and the pupils would be at risk of staff didn’t turn up? They are all blue blooded Tories.

I dunno what does it tell us?

I asked how many of her teachers were striking, none. Read into this what you will.

Why phrase it like some cryptic soothsayer riddle? Presumably your wife knows why her teachers are not striking while others do.

For everyone else: there are many teachers unions, and they didn’t all meet the voting threshold for strike action, thus their members may not legally strike.

Teacher strikes: Everything you need to know about strike action in schools

I dunno what does it tell us?

That’s why I posted it up. I genuinely don’t know how to read this but if it’s because they really can’t afford to lose a days pay then things have gone way to far already.
I know she was surprised to get them all in.
Edit, she’s just walked in so I asked her opinion. She really believes that her staff work for the kids and the local community as a whole. Nobody wants to be seen as militant.

. I genuinely don’t know how to read this but if it’s because they really can’t afford to lose a days pay then things have gone way to far already.

Plenty of Civil Service staff talking at work that they can’t afford to lose a day’s pay, so very possible

I was working as my union didn’t get enough people to vote.