Or is there another cause of your reason for striking – a teacher yourself – can educate me as to?

At work, can’t be arsed with your pathetic shite, if you think that the UK economy is like a third world economy you need to give your head a serious wobble.

this teacher spoke so much carp about how bad it is being a teacher – she actually said it is the hardest job in the world 60hrs a week etc etc.

is it the hardest job in the world? probably not – but its clear that teaching someone about hyperbole and using figures of speech to make a point may be harder than people think!  Is it 60 hrs a week – probably for some / many teachers.  Do you think that is not true?

I don’t disagree it’s a hard job, however most jobs come with their own stresses. Toxic work environments I bet are high up on the list.

OK, so do you think that government/local gov/management have done anything to make teaching more/less stressful and their work environment more/less toxic?

I could think of far worse jobs with less holidays etc.

So presumably given the great holidays and not the worst job in the world status you immediately stopped listening to the radio and started preparing your application for a PCGE course to go and enjoy this easy job?

Are there any happy teachers ???

Ask a wider question (this is genuine as my daughter is about to embark on career choices).  Which jobs are people who have been in them for 20-30 years do people say are great and they’d highly recommend as every day is interesting/rewarding and they feel recognised/valued by their “customers” and appropriately rewarded by their management and sure that everything they do is worthwhile not pointless paper pushing.

I always suspected you were a conservative voter AA.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand…

I always suspected you were a conservative voter.

Explains a lot

Explains a lot

It does, if you read the sentence properly. There aren’t any mistakes in it.

Oh god – give over, the pair of you! 🙁

The shitification of education in the UK is one of the biggest tragedies of modern times I reckon. My wife worked in a college and is now a TA in a primary school. The depth of shitness is astonishing. The primary teachers she’s working with now haven’t had any training in how to teach or how to create context and continuity. They are poorly skilled, young people with little general knowledge, even though they are decent and committed. Many of them just don’t know how to reach and engage people. They have been taught nothing about the psychology and neurology of kids and learning or how to plan learning. So all they can do is download worksheets from Twinkle on whatever the subject is and give them to the kids, most of whom really aren’t responding.

Now, there are clearly much better teachers and schools out there, but the point is that the system isn’t ensuring good teachers are made, it’s just relying on chance if someone happens to have the right level of understanding.

The reason it’s a shit job is that you’re asked to do the impossible with inadequate resources and training all the time, and the stakes are very high – young people’s futures. And it never ends and there’s nothing you can do to make it better, because you’re treated like shit.

Oh god – give over, the pair of you!

I’m keeping it polite Pondo, I’d genuinely like to understand – from AA or others – why are the teachers striking if it isn’t to do with lack of funds to pay wages and invest in education? My understanding that its exactly that.

Our economy has tanked to the lower level in the world, that’s been demonstrated by another member and therefore its clear that we are at the lowest level of economic stability, growth, reliability and reputation.

Oh god – give over, the pair of you! 🙁

Back in the 80’s you’d have been able to bang their heads together! 🤣

It does, if you read the sentence properly.

Not sure why you would think I didn’t, still not sure I care.

Can tell you one thing, only having year 11 and sixth form in school makes it far more pleasant

Back in the 80’s you’d have been able to bang their heads together

The good old days!

Our economy has tanked to the lower level in the world

It really hasn’t, come back and ask the grown ups a question when you have understood the difference between the size of an economy and the growth of an economy.

Its just a production line. I doubt many people went into the profession wanting to work on a production line

This is definitely the reality in FE. I did 10 years before it broke me.
The whole system is completely flawed, kids have to be in education or training till 18 have absolutely no interest or ambition to work in the industry of their chosen course and because the college is funded by attendance and achievement, I would spend a fair amount of time chasing absentees and then “forcing” these kids to achieve the required standard to achieve.
When I brought up the fact that I didn’t realise I would be teaching kids with no interest to my manager, he told me I was being naive!
But the main thing is that the government can publish that so many thousands of kids have qualified in Carpentry, Brickwork, Hairdressing and Catering etc, when in reality, it’s only the ones completing proper apprenticeships that will go on to work in industry.
I’m back on the tools, far easier and much more lucrative!
Edit, forgot to say, the few keen kids I did get would sail through the course and finish weeks early. When I set them challenges to test their skills and introduce them to what they might encounter when they progress a level I was instructed by the management to stop as the resources I used were not available!

I would spend a fair amount of time chasing absentees and then “forcing” these kids to achieve the required standard to achieve.

Now… imagine mandatory maths lessons for all at FE… who’d take that job?

Absolutely zero guidance – just thrown in at the deep end to get on with it, zero support of any type, an absurd workload with constantly changing demands and generally a ridiculously stressful environment

Pretty much any part of the public sector I think.

Now… imagine mandatory maths lessons for all at FE… who’d take that job?

We had that challenge as well.
Any kids without a GCSE C grade in English/Maths had to achieve the equivalent in college. No idea who thought that if a kid couldn’t achieve with 5 years of teaching by a specialist would be able to with a rough arsed builder in a year!!

Only read the title.

My parents were both teachers, some of my friends are married to teachers.

Teachers are never happy is my conclusion

During my 35 yrs in the classroom there was never a strike like this. As with nurses, teachers were/are very reluctant to disrupt their work with industrial action. 40,000 teachers have joined a union in the last fortnight. Since the days of Chris Woodhead teachers have persistently been degraded, pay cut in real terms, de-skilled with academisation and micro-managed from what appears to be the Amazon labour manual. Recruitment and retention are in crisis and Teach First are struggling to get either graduates or placements for them. Schools are reluctant to take student teachers through fear of affecting exam results and therefore pay (even Dickens ridiculed this). There’s been a critical shortage of maths teachers for decades, to suggest that maths should be taught to 18 is a good example of how ludicrously out of touch and uninterested these politicians are. I loved my years doing that and happily put very long hours into it but I’d be very iffy about going into it now, particularly with having to pay back 4 yrs worth of loans for the privilege.

Now… imagine mandatory maths lessons for all at FE… who’d take that job?

My missus! And she enjoyed it, least until the college forced all the kids to take GCSE (as they get more funding for that) rather than maths courses more suited to their ability/career requirements.

Now the head of maths and english is asking why their pass rates are so bad, despite being told when the lower-tier courses were pulled that this would tank the pass rate, as if it wasn’t obvious!

My Dad started a new job as a teacher recently, never ever have I seen him so stressed and unhappy

the resources I used were not available!

An ex-colleague of mine who was a plumbing tutor had to go to the wholesalers and buy a bundle of 15mm copper pipe as his students had an assessment that day, the delivery hadn’t arrived as the college was blocked with the wholesaler due to not paying their bills. He put it on his credit card, claimed it back on expenses and handed his notice in right there and then. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back, tbf.
Try explaining to the senior management that you can’t give a 100% accurate prediction of your dept budget for the year ahead because the cost of copper fluctuates daily, and you don’t know how many students you’ll have anyway. They just don’t get it!

you don’t know how many students you’ll have anyway.

So much this, when my missus went on maternity leave in December the registers from September still weren’t sorted, I don’t think they are even today from what some of her colleagues have said.

So this issue isn’t that the teachers jobs are too hard, it’s that the entire state education system is broken by years of underfunding and bad management, the teachers are just the visible face of the issues. For example the last payrise for teachers was unfunded, meaning that there had to be cuts to other budgets to provide it, meaning that other areas (absence chasing, SEN, materials, etc) got cut, making the teachers jobs harder.

I can’t imagine there are any more teachers unhappy in their jobs than in any other industry. Most folks would just find another job but teachers know they have society over a barrel and can get away with striking

Don’t blame them really, I’m sure all the folks in my bank would go on strike if we thought we could get away with it without being sacked

If they thought that they’d be on strike a hell of a lot more often.

Are there any happy teachers ???

Mate of mine was a teacher at a (decent enough) South London school. Put it this way, it could have been a LOT worse.

Then he emigrated to Australia where he now does roughly the same job in an amazing school looking out over Sydney Harbour, there are zero behavioural issues, he gets paid double what he did in the UK and the weather is way better.

He’s very happy. 😉

I can’t imagine there are any more teachers unhappy in their jobs than in any other industry.

This. It’s just that teachers whinge more.

Most folks would just find another job but teachers know they have society over a barrel and can get away with striking

Just like NHS staff, fire brigade, rail staff, post staff, etc, right? They should just go get different jobs and forget about us losing all their experience, forget about fighting for the career they chose?

Teachers by and large teach because they love teaching – I’d fight to improve the conditions of the job I loved, I’m sure you would too.

It’s just that teachers whinge more.

Whatever! [yawn] 🙄

, I’m sure all the folks in my bank would go on strike if we thought we could get away with it without being sacked

You know that’s (currently) illegal right, sacking people for exercising their right to withdraw their labour?

There are without a doubt far far tougher jobs, with worse conditions and working environments.

Have to pick up on this. I doubt those other jobs are as pivotal to the future of individuals or our nation. Hence why teachers, nurses etc. have the collective powers they do and good on them.

Most folks would just find another job but teachers know they have society over a barrel and can get away with striking

It may have escaped your notice but the fact that 1 in 4 leave within 1 year and a third within 5 years and the gov missed there own recruitment target by 41% last year suggests that they do find other jobs.
Everyone can ‘get away with striking’ apart from the police.

Most seem a bit cheesed off, with the job in general and with the results-driven culture in a lot of schools in particular.

The model of school organisation, combined with exam results tables and Ofsted rankings, seems to lead to bullying and general unpleasantness by some heads.

It’s an area I might have been interested in transitioning to, were it not for all the complaints about admin and nasty management I hear from teachers. Plus I don’t want to be tied to school holidays for my annual leave.

You know that’s (currently) illegal right, sacking people for exercising their right to withdraw their labour?

is it? Didn’t know that

Just like NHS staff, fire brigade, rail staff, post staff, etc, right? They should just go get different jobs and forget about us losing all their experience, forget about fighting for the career they chose?

Teachers by and large teach because they love teaching – I’d fight to improve the conditions of the job I loved, I’m sure you would too.

and how is that any different than any other sector exactly? in this time when everyone is hard hit, only certain sectors are threatening strike action. Why’s that?

They’re organised.

They’re organised

Beat me to it.

and how is that any different than any other sector exactly? in this time when everyone is hard hit, only certain sectors are threatening strike action. Why’s that?

It’s because public sector pay has risen much less than private sector pay in response to inflation.

ONS stats: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/articles/professionalandscientificindustrytheonlyonewherepaycontinuestomatchrisingprices/2022-11-23

Quote from that link: “Regular pay growth in the public sector was 2.2% in July to September 2022, while in the private sector it was 6.6%.”

And that period is very likely to be indicative of the last year or so.

Does it make more sense now? Feeling more sympathy for the strikers?

My Mrs left teaching last year.  Just had enough of it.

The teaching kids (you know, what teachers SHOULD be doing) wasn’t the problem.  But the constant interference from politicians who don’t know their arse from their elbow, moving targets, more and.lore targets, decades of underfunding, etc just gets too much. She was literally doing 70+ hours a week. Up at 5am to do stuff, back home at 7 or 8, quick bit of food then marking or prep for another 2+ hrs.

Half of Saturday and all of Sunday too.

Literally the only family time was to go to the rugby for a few hrs every other week.

Throw in heads who can’t manage people at half the schools and are themselves pandering to the political bollox. Many heads utterly out of their depths. Many micro-manage and flip-flop every other week on WTF needs doing.  And run at times as their own little fiefdoms and cliques.

Ofsted.  Led by ****, managed by ****, staffed by ****.  They come in with an agenda before they arrive. Not an open honest assessment, but a pre determined decision they then go to find ‘evidence’ (made up half the time) to justify what they’d already decided.  Ofsted like many Gov organisations utterly unfit to do the job they need to. It’s just like police deciding before doing any investigation that youre you’re guilty because you’re Irish or black.

She’s taken a job on pretty much half the wage, to get away from it.

So are they right to strike ? Too fffoooking right.

Should force all MPs and all those working in the civil service to use state education for their kids. That would start to make a difference. Let their kids suffer under the mess they have caused.

It’s a very hard job and not much more important jobs than a teacher they should be paid where they have a good standard of living at least.

Does it make more sense now? Feeling more sympathy for the strikers?

But I thought it wasn’t all about pay?

Private sector pensions have taken a battering over last 20 years… should I feel sorry for them too?

They’re organised.

I agree they are. And they have a monopoly on the market. If all the lowly paid branch workers at a major high street bank walked out, it would simply serve to lose them customers and they’d be shooting themselves in the foot longer term. One union for all bank workers would definitely change that, ie organization. But it doesn’t exist

I don’t care if folks strike or not, good luck to them. But I don’t have much sympathy for teachers tbh. Nhs workers and fireman however I do sympathize with as I think they get a rough deal

I’m a happy teacher