Discuss?

2 sides to every coin.

No

Did someone say all the trolls had gone?

Yes.

2 sides to every coin.

Do you say that when someone mentions WW2 ?

No – not even close. What they are doing is wrong, but not quite on the same scale as the Holocaust.

maybe if hamass or wot ever they are called , would stop lobbing missiles , sit down and **** talk , then all the sh*t would stop, i feel sorry for both sides,

Any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic and therefore it makes you a Nazi. Discuss.

What they are doing is wrong but not ….

Violating international law, ignoring the United Nations, illegal conquest and occupation, punishing civilians……..

I could go on.

What they are doing is wrong, but not quite on the same scale as the Holocaust

But something akin to Blitzkreig tactics

….or the the UN would show some b0ll0cks and put peace keeping troops in.

flashfart – anti-semitic equals the inability to discuss anything – discuss

Troll – you all know me already…..

if hamass or wot ever they are called , would stop lobbing missiles

“Like any occupied people, the Palestinians have the right to resist, whether they choose to exercise it or not. But there is no right of defence for an illegal occupation – there is an obligation to withdraw comprehensively.“

ernie_lynch

yes mate
as would most germans .

BTW – I have no issue with God’s cursed people.

Its a pretty troll-ish thread title tbh.

If this was happening in the UK, with home made rockets being fired onto UK homes, the press and public opinion would be totally different. It counts as a significantly more important and justified war than the UK/US invading Afghanistan or Iraq.

You can’t elect a terrorist group, allow them to operate and then complain when civilians are killed trying to stop them.

I don’t hide behind a troll, although I see where your coming from.

I thought your thread about vegetarians was probably a troll, but this definitely is.

Yeah no-one complained when we carried out air strikes against Ireland did they? Oh hang on…

If this was happening in the UK, with home made rockets being fired onto UK homes, the press and public opinion would be totally different.

You wouldn’t support resistance to a foreign power ?

like the germans in ww2 did

Yeah no-one complained when we carried out air strikes against Ireland did they? Oh hang on…

Different situation are different tactics required. I’m afraid politics will NEVER work with the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, it has been on going in various forms for thousands of years. It is unfortunate but I can’t see a method other than brute force to remove the terrorist elements.

It’s a bad family argument but going back to before Christ. They’re all related.

Violating international law, ignoring the United Nations, illegal conquest and occupation, punishing civilians……..

Not really any better than we and the Americans do……

Nixie – that’s the point really. What’s right? What’s wrong?

I can’t see a method other than brute force to remove the terrorist elements.

And I can’t see a method other than brute force to remove the American and Russian Zionists from Palestine.

Quote from a Palestinian commander :

“We can’t do anything (to hurt the Israelis) but fire the rockets and hope they enter Gaza,” he said. “We are praying for the tanks to come so we can show them new things. We have made many preparations for the coming battle and all of our fighters wait for the chance to kill them.”

This level of violence simply makes more martyrs and creates more problems for our forces in ‘other’ Islamic states. FACT

Truth is the Zionists don’t give a sh1t bout anyone but themselves.

Imagine if Iran or anyone else outside Israel and the United States was doing what the Israeli military is doing in Gaza. There would be global condemnation, not least from Israel and the United States, resolutions passed in the UN Security Council and talk of the need for sanctions or military intervention to ‘save the innocent’.

I do not agree with Palestinians in London telling us ‘shame on you’ they need to remember they live in Britain where they are free to express an opinion – that said what’s happening is wrong on all fronts FWIW

Hmm, a good deal of ignorance here.
Although I don’t condone Hamas firing rockets indiscriminately into Israel, I understand their reasoning for doing it.
I don’t condone Israel’s heavy-handed tactics and targeting of civilians, but understand their reasoning for defending their citizens.

I have no ideas for the solution, though. Anyone who thinks they do, has probably underestimated the complexity of the situation.

BM – don’t think anyone especially me has underestimated the ‘complexity of the situation’

This can hardly be classed as a ‘hearts and minds’ excercise?

I do not agree with Palestinians in London telling us ‘shame on you’

Why not ?

We should be ashamed of the British governments’ position.

You’re probably right about it being counter-productive though, from yesterdays’ news quote :

Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was national security adviser for US president Jimmy Carter, told CNN television that Rice’s remarks “clearly show that the US policy right now is completely bankrupt” and the Israeli offensive “will further radicalize the Palestinians.”

But as if the Bush administration cares.

.

Nothing “complex” about the situation bikemonkey.

The foreign Zionists which have entered Palestine believe that they have a 2000 year old claim to land which isn’t theirs.

They are wrong. Simple as.

oh boy. The Palestine/Israel conundrum.

we in the west are in no position to lecture either side about this particular ‘problem’; hell, Britain ‘created’ the problem in 1948 with the partition of what was then “Palestine” to create a homeland for the exiled survivors of the Holocaust. IIRC this was sanctioned by the newly created United Nations.

Had the Nazis not come to power in 1933 & set about their attempted extinction of the Jewish population of Europe, then perhaps we might not be seeing the problems we see now.

But why did the Nazis come to power?
A political – and democratically elected – reaction to the economic reparations against Germany resulting from the First World War, which can in turn probably be traced back to the Franco-Prussian war of the 19th century and back beyond that again.

But go back further to the Crusades. “The Holy Land” has been a battleground of sorts for over a thousand years – do we think we can change that now, especially in light of the current political situation? No, I don’t think we can.

And while this goes on, there will always be conflict between the “west” and the Islamic world.

I wish there was a way out, but I can’t see one.

You can’t elect a terrorist group, allow them to operate and then complain when civilians are killed trying to stop them.

Is the Israeli government a terrorist organisation? I didn’t know that…

I have no ideas for the solution, though. Anyone who thinks they do, has probably underestimated the complexity of the situation.

At last, a bit of sense.

brute force to remove the terrorist elements

Good idea but the Israeli army is too strong to be easily removed.

Seriously, Hamas rockets, however annoying, do not pose any threat whatsoever to the existence of Israel, and to claim otherwise is to abuse the memory of the Holocaust victims. Every time the Israelis pull this stunt it cheapens the suffering of their ancestors.

“Nothing “complex” about the situation bikemonkey.

The foreign Zionists which have entered Palestine believe that they have a 2000 year old claim to land which isn’t theirs.

They are wrong. Simple as. “

up for reasoned debate then? or just trolling? or just tring to shout down everyone who doesn’t think Hamas is a democratic organisation?

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Nato/ UN refused to go into Georgia why on earth would they go into this disaster area, its cheaper to throw money at the situation when it all calms down (which then somehow never seems to reach the people)

balanced article here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/4077213/Even-Obama-cant-solve-the-Middle-East-problem—and-hed-be-foolish-to-try.html

its a mess, just pray it doesn’t go nuclear

up for reasoned debate then? or just trolling? or just tring to shout down everyone who doesn’t think Hamas is a democratic organisation?

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Umm … whatever Hamas’ charter may say does not alter the fact that they were elected in a process that would be lauded as a model of democracy if it happened anywhere else in the world.

1 isreali killed for every 100 palestinians was a figure I read this morning….. seems somewhat 1 sided…..

it’s like shooting fish in a barrel… the palestinians have over the years been forced into the west bank and the gaza strip… and with the west bank now encircled with a huge funk off wall (berlin style) it makes the invading jews jobs easier….

as for anti semetic I don’t give a……. nobody feels as sorry for the russian or chinese people to the same extent as the jews… and more people have been killed by the leaders of either of those countries…..