Or how about vaguely intellectual, or just wearing glasses (and Russian) – 20 million of whom sent to Siberia under Stalin just in case they had a vaguely seditious thought.

Perhaps there are evil **** in all corners of the world?

Well worth giving them a poke to see if they know why they care about this in particular.

Yes I agree. The Palestinian/Zionist issue and the passions it arouses is an interesting one.

I think one of the reasons for this, is that we are officially told to support the wrong side.

Which is clearly always going to cause some problems.

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And of course unlike the Sudan, one side often speaks English with an American or Australian accent.
They also sometimes have light coloured hair.

Which makes the foreigners that are killing each other, somewhat more interesting.

Grudges are bad but very powerful

Your comment Hairychested, certainly applied to the Boers.

Brutely repressed by the British, thousands died of starvation and disease in the concentrations camps which the British invented especially to incarcerate them in.

Finally free from British oppression, the Boers/Afrikaans became the new oppressors. Using the full might of the Apartheid State, they subjugate the South African people in complete defiance of the whole world.

Of course the Apartheid State eventually collapsed, and it is no more. Even with some of the the most advanced weaponry in the world, including nuclear weapons, it was always going to be doomed.

As indeed is the Zionist State.

No idea if this has been posted in this thread

* Warning – the link contains some potentially upsetting footage *

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3b3_1230864719

Epic fail from Hamas. Got to love the way they ignore the women and kids and try to save the clowns in uniform 😕

Oh goodie – the Lebanese have decided to use their pointy stick now too.

Cue them whinging when Israel retaliates.

nickc- thank you for that. Robert Fisk is brave with that piece. That is proper Journalism.

5thElefant – Totally agree. If your black and your country can’t offer anything strategic or mineral then you are a second class Citizen.

Hairychested. You assume that the 5million agree that the murder of innocent women and children not linked to Nazism in anyway is ‘in their name’?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3235155.stm
and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/1444033/Peace-activist-shot-by-Israelis-is-%27brain-dead%27.html

I wonder if there is a policy of shoot to kill on any Foreigners getting involved who may uncover anything that would give Israel a bad name?

Oh and just for the record, I am not anti-semitic. My thoughts on Islam though..

druidh – Member

Oh goodie – the Lebanese have decided to use their pointy stick now too.

Cue them whinging when Israel retaliates.

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I don’t know where you get your information from druidh, but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident. The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah – an organisation which is much more heavily armed than Hamas and which they now fear.

The whole point of the Israeli government’s pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak.

I am also unaware of Hamas particularly “whinging”. In fact I find the statements and military communiques issued by the Information Office of the Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) to be factual and pretty unemotive, check them out for yourself :

Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades

On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been “whinging”. Repeatedly whinging that Israel has been violating international law and the Geneva Convention.

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hora – Member

I wonder if there is a policy of shoot to kill on any Foreigners getting involved who may uncover anything that would give Israel a bad name?

.

One of the things which Israel fears the most is the truth. That is why whilst some countries have journalists “embedded” with troops during military operations, Israel does the complete opposite and bars them, illegally, from Gaza. Israel simply does not want the war crimes which they know, will committed, covered.

Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006. Even though for many hours the UN was in communication with the Israelis informing them that they were shelling UN observers, the Israelis continued to shell until all the observers had been killed. The UN observers had almost certainly observed the Israelis targeting civilians. The Israelis claimed that the shelling was just a big mistake.

With reference to the link, the Israelis have a long record of shooting children. They also have a record of shooting journalists who film or take photographs of them killing children.

We in the West only see a sanitised version of what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. The people of other countries see quite different reports. Here is a news clip showing very young Palestinians children with small calibre bullet holes in the their bodies – there appears to be no other serious injuries.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yFgtk-9tVK8

Now I don’t know the details behind that story, and the truth might not be as horrific as it would appear, but there can be no doubt the many members of the IDF have no respect for the lives of Palestinian children. Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents. Something which was described as a war crime.

.

But why would Israelis soldiers kill children when it does them so much harm in the eyes of the world ? Perhaps the Zionist upbringing which teaches them that they are “God’s chosen people” fills them with so much hate towards Palestinians that they consider Palestinians to be sub-human. Perhaps when they enter areas with the specific task of killing Palestinians, they engage in such a killing frenzy that they lose all sense of what is right or wrong and fail to see a problem with shelling UN schools or UN relief convoys as they undisputedly have in the last two days. Perhaps the Israeli airman and sailors who are bombing and shelling 1.5 million unarmed civilians, can only do so if they can convince themselves that they are sub-human.

Who knows ……

Just as an aside ..
Theres a large jewish comunity near to me, and a large muslim one.
Jewish leader… “we are praying for the victims..”
Muslim leader… “we are praying for the victims on both sides…”

ernie_lynch :

…but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident.

Eh? Playing down the incident? WTF! You mean they should let journalists broadcast their affairs? When is media, highly commercial, allowed to dictate the interpretation of war?

“The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah … which they now fear.”

You mean everyone welcome death?

“The whole point of the Israeli government’s pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak.”

Crikey. A pre-election campaign … so does that mean because they are weak they have the rights to fire home made “fireworks” towards their neighbour?

“Information Office of the Ezzedeen Al-Qassam Brigades (the military wing of Hamas) to be factual and pretty unemotive …”

I think North Korean is far more factual with their Dear Leader being the living god.

“On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been “whinging”.”

Eh? So they should go in with their guns blazing instead? They are supposed to whine as that is their role in war.

“One of the things which Israel fears the most is the truth.”

Now this is beginning to sound like “the god will strike down upon thy with all his/her might”. The basic truth is very simple, you shoot as many of your enemies as possible until their succumb to your will which is applicable to both sides. Ya, truth. The truth is that striking the Europe Million jackpot is much harder than Lotto.

“Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006.”

Yes, the UN observers should have a TV remote to press the “pause” button to stop the shelling before they went in.

“With reference to the link, the Israelis have a long record of shooting children. … Here is a news clip showing very young Palestinians children with small calibre bullet holes in the their bodies – there appears to be no other serious injuries.”

Who keeps the record?
The death of children is tragic but how do they know they were killed by the Israelis?

“Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents.”

Perhaps the Israeli soldiers were too busy fighting? Or perhaps it was a no go area due to fighting for the past four days?

“But why would Israelis soldiers kill children when it does them so much harm in the eyes of the world ?”

North Koreans’ eyes? China’s eyes? Whose eyes of the world exactly do you represent?

“Perhaps the Zionist upbringing which teaches them that they are “God’s chosen people” fills them with so much hate towards Palestinians that they consider Palestinians to be sub-human.

Eh!? Stone him! You mean there is another god?

😯

The death of children is tragic but how do they know they were killed by the Israelis?

There are Israelis (and Jews) against what is happening to the Palestinians. Some speak out but many don’t just like in Germany..

If 7/7 didnt happen how would the UK feel about what is happening now? In a way we are all complicit in Israels actions.

Once the ‘Refugees’ are removed from Gaza then ‘everyone’ will be happy.

Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.

I wonder if the house had some nice capacious shower rooms? Perhaps a few bunk beds. Who knows, maybe even a little sign over the gate saying something like “Work will set you free”………………………………………

“Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital,” the report said.

O.K. so reports are reports but you can not use brute force on a civilian population to eradicate terrorists.

And before everyone gets on their high horse saying ‘well what is the solution?’ The solution is not simple. The solution is to create a wealthy Gaza strip – Poverty and terrorism are normal bedfellows, by long term investment in Gaza by Israel as apossed to isolating itself from all states on it’s borders, is the only solution. In the short term this will not stop Hamas. This is a long term strategy of rebuilding infrastructure and lives. Don’t get me wrong I hate terrorism and with good reason. But the issue remains that dealing with the root causes of terrorism is the best way to eradicate it.

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Thank you for your response chewkw. I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout fascinating, in much the same way as I found the bollox spouted by racist supporters of the Apartheid State intriguing.

The ability to stand truth on it’s head is truly impressive. Of course we all know that it is important that a lie should be quote :

“so ‘colossal’ that no one would believe that someone could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously” – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.

A minor example of this was when after shelling a UN school, the Israelis not content with lying about the presence of resistance fighters at the school, expanded on the lie by releasing what they claimed to be the names of the two dead Hamas fighters. The UN dismissed this as absurd as the Israelis had not even visited the site, nor they claimed, did the Israelis keep records of Palestinian casualties.

Let’s wade through some of your lies chewkw …..

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…but as I understand it the Israelis are very much playing down the incident.

Eh? Playing down the incident? WTF! You mean they should let journalists broadcast their affairs? When is media, highly commercial, allowed to dictate the interpretation of war?

The claim that the Israelis were playing down the incident was made by the BBC World Service. The BBC World Service is neither ‘highly commercial’ nor does it have a reputation of misinterpreting comments made by the Israeli government. The Israelis are not noted for ‘playing down incidents’ on the contrary, they are noted for ‘playing up incidents’ in an attempt to justify their invariably disproportionate responses.

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“The last thing the Israelis want right now is a confrontation with Hezbollah … which they now fear.”

You mean everyone welcome death?

I mean that Israel targeted Gaza because the risks to themselves were negligible. Gaza essentially represents 1.5 million unarmed refugees, had they been able to fight back as Hezbollah would have done, they would not have been attacked – especially just before an election.

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“The whole point of the Israeli government’s pre-election stunt, was to attack Hamas because they knew it to be poorly armed and very weak.”

Crikey. A pre-election campaign … so does that mean because they are weak they have the rights to fire home made “fireworks” towards their neighbour?

The ceasefire was broken by Israel on the 4th November, not by Hamas. Hamas has a good record of complying with ceasefires. The ceasefire was due to expire on the 19th of December anyway, so Israel could have waited until then to resume hostilities. However, Israel needed to escalate the situation so that the onslaught on Gaza could be well under way before their elections next month and before the new US president took office. The Christmas break was also useful because many of the world’s governments would be on holiday and unable to meet to condemn Israel. The 4th of November was chosen because on that day all of the world’s eyes were on the US presidential elections.

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“On the other hand, the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have indeed been “whinging”.”

Eh? So they should go in with their guns blazing instead? They are supposed to whine as that is their role in war.

It is not the role of the International Committee of the Red Cross to “whine”. On the contrary it is the role of the Red Cross to remain neutral, say nothing, and just provide humanitarian aid in conflict zones. I don’t think I can ever recall the Red Cross condemning the actions of one government as much as they have condemned the Israelis.

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“Who can forget how the Israelis shelled and killed UN observers in Lebanon in 2006.”

Yes, the UN observers should have a TV remote to press the “pause” button to stop the shelling before they went in.

I don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about – and I suspect that you don’t either. How about finding out the facts before making moronic statements ? From The Times :

UN observers begged Israelis to stop shelling their position

” UN monitors made ten phone calls to military commanders before the air strike that killed four of them”

.

“Only today the Red Cross reported that Israeli soldiers had left for four days, wounded small children to starve to death next to the bodies of their parents.”

Perhaps the Israeli soldiers were too busy fighting? Or perhaps it was a no go area due to fighting for the past four days?

There’s no “perhaps” anything. The Israelis refused to allow Red Cross ambulances access.

In an unusually blunt criticism, the Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross said it had been seeking access to shell-damaged areas in Zeitoun in the east of Gaza City since Saturday but the Israeli authorities granted permission only on Wednesday

Of course perhaps in your fantasy world chewkw, the Red Cross are all liars and the Israelis are just deeply misunderstood.

I reckon you must inhabit an alternative universe similar to the one inhabited by those who claim that the Nazis never did all those horrible things to the Jews.

muppet.

its not worth arguing with chewkw, even if he personally witnessed an Israeli soldier massacring children, he would see it at the terrorists spawn flung themselves onto the heroic soldier bullets in an act of aggression.

If a bunch of chavs keep taunting and chucking stones at a lion and then it finally turns on them, is that the lion’s fault?
Neighbourhood bully in the words of Bob Dylan.

ernie_lynch

“I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout fascinating, in much the same way as I found the bollox spouted by racist supporters of the Apartheid State intriguing.”

Yes, fascinating & intriguing for me too to think that people try to find moral in wars. i.e. to kill discriminately. When is war without civilian death?

“The BBC World Service is neither ‘highly commercial’ nor does it have a reputation of misinterpreting comments made by the Israeli government. The Israelis are not noted for ‘playing down incidents’ on the contrary, they are noted for ‘playing up incidents’ in an attempt to justify their invariably disproportionate responses.”

BBC world service unbiased? Tell that to the Russian and again it your view. Which nation in war does not “play down incidents”? I bet all of them will claim to be the victim or hard done by.

“I mean that Israel targeted Gaza because the risks to themselves were negligible. Gaza essentially represents 1.5 million unarmed refugees, had they been able to fight back as Hezbollah would have done, they would not have been attacked – especially just before an election.”

You do not enter a war if you cannot win. Unarmed? Are you blind? Watch BBC lately? No guns in Gaza? I bet AK-47 is the bet seller there.

“The ceasefire was broken by Israel on the 4th November, not by Hamas. Hamas has a good record of complying with ceasefires.”

Both sides claim the other broken the ceasefire. Hmmm … interesting.

“On the contrary it is the role of the Red Cross to remain neutral, say nothing, and just provide humanitarian aid in conflict zones.”

Then why the hell did they speak out on BBC last night? Don’t they know they are supposed to pick up human bits & pieces when they enter the war zone? Are you saying the standard of war has deteriorated to the point even Red Cross (actually moon not cross because cross means Christians coming to help them) has to comment on the gruesome reality of death?

” I don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about – and I suspect that you don’t either. How about finding out the facts before making moronic statements ? … ” UN monitors made ten phone calls to military commanders before the air strike that killed four of them”

Why on earth do they have to be there in the first place? Monitor the war? Are you saying they are the referee in war? Oh ya, the UN should send them to monitor the Taliban too.

“The Israelis refused to allow Red Cross ambulances access.”

Okay, Red Cross were refused so are you saying the military should listen to their request?

“Of course perhaps in your fantasy world chewkw, the Red Cross are all liars and the Israelis are just deeply misunderstood.”

In my fantasy world they are all secret lovers.

richc:

“its not worth arguing with chewkw, even if he personally witnessed an Israeli soldier massacring children, he would see it at the terrorists spawn flung themselves onto the heroic soldier bullets in an act of aggression.

Honestly, I did not witness with my own eyes on all the death except from TV as I sit in the comfy of my lounge.

My question to you, did you see that with your own eyes in the killing fields? You mean you were there? Or do you sit, just like me, in the comfy lounge watching it on TV?

You guys do have a twisted mind you know. Wish I could be as good as you.

😯

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ernie_lynch – Member

Thank you for your response chewkw. I always find the complete bollox which supporters of racist Zionists spout fascinating……

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I am now finding your responses rather tedious and boring.

my point was hypothetical chewkw, which I thought was obvious, mind you with your ability to miss the point and misinterpret reality it doesn’t surprise me that you couldn’t work that out.

On the old forum Chewkw was just another of Hora’s alternate logins….. is someone else using it now or has Hora developed a split personality and started arguing with himself? Bizarre.

I am fairly certain they are different people, Hora might be a prat, but he isn’t a xenophobic facist prat.

The one thing I have leant from this thread is, just how different Hora is to the person which I had perceived him to be. Going by his previously offensive comments about Muslims, I have been quite frankly stunned by his fair, sensible, and humane comments, on this thread.

Live and learn, eh ?

Yup, even for this form, chewkw has managed to exibit a bewildering level of stupidity. I’d had thought that level of sticking your head in the sand (or up their own rear end) could result in a serious neck injury!

Chewkw – War, any war is wrong. I’m not opposed to a good scrap myself but is it not always the case that the ‘first casualty of war is innocence’ the issue as I continually repeat is that Israel is simply making things worse through the amount of force excerted. To ignore a UN mandate is totally wrong of Hamas, but for a pseudo civilised nation it’s abhorent.

This is not the end this is only the beginning, those idiots seem hell bent on setting the Middle East alight and leaving us to pick up the pieces.

When I watch the news I find myself longing for someone to fight back against Israel.

Not only their aggression, but their arrogance in the aftermath will hopefully bring down on it the retaliation it deserves.

The UN should start holding back on Iranian nuclear inspections.

Papa, no offence but you should live in Israel for a while before making such a statement. If you don’t remember it read up about the 6 day war.

Why are you lot bothering with this? It’s done to death. Nobodys going to bring anyone round. Most of you are talking nonsense anyway, with some sort of pretence that you are really well informed. Most of you havn’t spent any time in the region, don’t know much history and like having an argument on the internet, after reading a couple of articles in publications of various note. I can’t believe theres been 265 posts on this or so, why you all wasting your breath?

colnagokid – Member

Just as an aside ..
Theres a large jewish comunity near to me, and a large muslim one.
Jewish leader… “we are praying for the victims..”
Muslim leader… “we are praying for the victims on both sides…”

What a silly silly thing to post.
Why dont you lot all shut the **** up. Are the Israelis the new Nazis? No. I think its a distasteful comparison.

I agree Joe

Papa_Lazarou – Member

When I watch the news I find myself longing for someone to fight back against Israel.

Not only their aggression, but their arrogance in the aftermath will hopefully bring down on it the retaliation it deserves.

The UN should start holding back on Iranian nuclear inspections.

Another fantastically stupid post. I’m amazed. What a naive, stupid, ignorant, exceptionally poor taste post. It’s ill informed, its ridiculous.

Why dont you lot all shut the **** up. Are the Israelis the new Nazis? No. I think its a distasteful comparison.

It may be distasteful, but the actions of the Israelis invite it upon themselves by their brutality. They themselves cheapen the memory of the Holocaust by using it as a pretext for every vile abuse of the weak and frightened people that they are so happy to dominate.

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If it’s the opinions of the people in the region which count tyger, we best start listening to what the Palestinians have say.

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Or isn’t that what you meant ?

Does anyone who isn’t Jewish or reliant on jews for political influence actually support Israel?

Dr J is bang on there – the way israel is behaving at the moment is making the whole world hate them.

Well, me for starters, Papa.

The title of this thread is inflammatory in the very least and has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments from those who have never lived out there. Sure, it’s easy to quote ad nauseam and link to this and that but unless you’ve actually been there what gives you the right to judge? Opinions yes but that’s not what I’m reading.

I think the title is a distasteful comparison to make of anyone – you really have no idea at all of the hurt that you can cause just in this alone regardless of the current situation.

I’m saddened by what is happening at the moment, I think it’s tragic.
Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it’s also weaving it’s way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.

has encouraged some very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and just plain wrong comments

And I find your comments very hostile, ignorant, self-righteous and wrong.

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Hatred is ruling the day for sure but it’s also weaving it’s way through this thread and I would ask that it be closed now.

You need a reality check fella.

There’s no “hatred” weaving it’s way through this thread. Although there’s plenty of people who are appalled by the slaughter of Palestinians.

Shame on you for wanting to silence them by requesting that the thread be closed.

Joe,
it was just something that was in the local paper-silly editor!
Not that I need to defend myself to you, you if dont like what is being discussed/argued about look at the bike stuff!
“what tyre for the middle east” try that one!

Perhaps if both sides stopped indoctrinating their populations and more importantly their children with hate for each other then there may one day be a glimmer of hope, I can’t see anyone coming out of this favorably.

Personally I think its a bit over the top leveling residential areas, schools etc just because something not that far removed from a glorified firework lands in your rose garden or onto of your SUV.

I can’t help wishing the whole region would suffer a catastrophic earthquake followed by an enormous flood to level it all out and make them all start again!

personally I blame the Swiss! 😛

Mr Nutt go back to mtbrider mate 😆

oh, I should add that I was horrified to here that blond lass from the Israeli Army refer to their activities as part of an “ultimate solution” on the news yesterday/the day before, I genuinely could not believe my ears!

I’m the Daddy! 😮

tankslapper, only if you’ll come with me 😉

O.K. Big Boy!