Anti-semitism

JHJ you’re stuff is too “western-centric” of who/what is happening in the Mid East, you need to broaden your horizons, chap.

Can you explain to me the supply chains to Arms to Israel?

How about Saudi Arabia?

Who funds and exports the most extreme form of islam?

How did the current situation in Iran develop?

Have there been any junctures in modern history when MI6 and the CIA didn’t have a presence before or during significant conflict?

Can you explain to me the supply chains to Arms to Israel?

Lizards

How about Saudi Arabia?

The Queen

Who funds and exports the most extreme form of islam?

The BBC

How did the current situation in Iran develop?

Jimmy Saville

Have there been any junctures in modern history when MI6 and the CIA didn’t have a presence before or during significant conflict?

Dont know as its a secret.

I’ll take that to mean you can’t answer…

saxonrider +1

jimjam – what you said was straight forward antisemitism. Sorry and all that.

It’s complex isn’t it? Centuries of prejudice and dislike against the jews, blood libels, lies, conspiracy theories of which JHJ would be proud…

And then they start treating other people, the way they have been treated and on one side you see a US lobby resisting any criticism, and on the other side a desire by some arabic countries to drive them all into the sea…

Complicated and nuanced.

I’m Anti-Semitic for saying this, but I do feel “Anti-Semitism” as a phrase or word is discriminatory. Everyone else on the planet has to deal with racism but one group however has an elevated crime of Anti-Semitism that’s worse than racism, because, well I’d really like to know why.

Of course, racism is treated as against a race. Anti-Semitism is against a religion. Or is it? http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/02/antisemitism-is-racism-malky-mackay-david-whelan-mario-balotelli

There are many debates that Anti-Semitism is racism and if that is so, then isn’t it just racism. Why the need for a distinction, and in some countries laws with harsher penalties than just plain racism?

Point I’m making is racism is racism, whatever the race, colour or creed.

errr…. are you sure all Jews are one race?!

errr…. are you sure all Jews are one race?!

Well, they have been defined as one in (‘merican) law, but actually, it’s fair to say that even jews themselves don’t really have a good answer to that question.

Stoatsbrother
saxonrider +1

jimjam – what you said was straight forward antisemitism. Sorry and all that.

It’s complex isn’t it? Centuries of prejudice and dislike against the jews, blood libels, lies, conspiracy theories of which JHJ would be proud…

And then they start treating other people, the way they have been treated and on one side you see a US lobby resisting any criticism, and on the other side a desire by some arabic countries to drive them all into the sea…

Complicated and nuanced.

Well, lets look at what I said again.

“They don’t do themselves any favours by hoarding all the gold.”

Since the thread was about the historic roots of anti-semetism, which I had alluded to, I decided to sign off with this as an example of one of the ridiculous stereotypes frequently leveled at the Jews in times gone by, much less so now.

I chose this because to my mind it was so hyperbolic as to to be obviously tongue in cheek. Or so I thought. Something which wouldn’t be out of place in say, The Merchant of Venice but absurd today.

“mutilating small boys penises”

Something Jews actually do which has no place in the modern world. I decided to included this to juxtapose the first part of the sentence as there are things which the Jews still do which don’t win them many fans. Small boy penis mutilation and genocidal slaughter being two examples.

Complicated and nuanced you might say.

I was under the impression that Arabs were one of the Semitic group, so being opposed to Israel for what they are doing to the Palestinians is hardly anti-semitism.

“Something Jews actually do which has no place in the modern world. I decided to included this to juxtapose the first part of the sentence as there are things which the Jews still do which don’t win them many fans. Small boy penis mutilation and genocidal slaughter being two examples.”

More anti-Semitism. That you don’t realise just how anti-Semitic your remarks are, shows the depth of the problem facing our society.

“Complicated and nuanced you might say.”

There’s nothing ‘nuanced’ or ‘complex’ about anything you’ve said; it’s just downright ignorant and xenophobic.

which don’t win them many fans. Small boy penis mutilation and genocidal slaughter being two examples.

Is circumcision justification for hating Muslims as well?

As for genocidal slaughter – population of Palestine has risen by over 100% in the last quarter century #Worst.Genocide.Ever!

Reading a lot of ‘theys’…I never knew Jewish people were a homogenous group.

With the same logic I guess we’re all the same since we ride biikes…

Oh my god imagine that… Nifan and I are the same…all his behaviours are the same as me cos we ride bikes…

Well we are homogenous in terms of we cycle, so we are cyclists, like all Jews are Jews

Is it impossible to differentiate within either group – NO.

Not quite the same definition i’d use for homogenous JY…only alike in a label has been applied..we don’t have the same characteristics…also, i’d never call myself a cyclist…

Anti semitism is real and abhorrent as is any form of racial or religious persecution.

However, there are cases of people crying anti semitism when someone criticises Israel. Most prominent example I can think of is when the Guardian published the cartoon of Benjamin Netanyahu building the Israeli / Palestinian wall using the blood of Palestinians as mortor.

There was a huge outcry that the Guardian should publish such an anti semetic cartoon when in fact it was nothing of the sort – it was political satire (and in my opinion spot on).

It’s a very fine line and a deeply devisive issue…

To look at it another way. In the various apparently “anti-semetic” remarks here where the word Jews is used, replace the word with Christians. The same sentence then seemingly becomes inoffensive or far less so, and certainly there isn’t an “anti” word specific to them.

i’ve often had the same thought as the OP….

i went to the Nürnberg City Museum years ago before i could speak and understand German. on the top floor they had a massive, ~3mx3m wooden carving of Nürnberg made in the 1930’s. myself and a few other tourists who couldn’t speak German hung around for the English “tour” of this minature city. various areas or locations were lit up with a spotlight and some woman babbled on about something “interesting”.

i remmeber one area being lit up and the audio saying something like:

“und hier in sirteenhunderedundsirteetoo zeer vas ze synagoog of ze jews. it was burned down”

“hier was ze neew synagoog of ze jews. it was burned down in sixteenhunderedundneintyzwree”

“zis was ze last synagoog in Nürnberg. it vas burned by ze nazis in neinteenhunderedundsirteenein”

it left me wondering why the jews just didn’t job off after the first round rather than coming back for more…

as an aside, why do Jews generally have big noses? i’m not being funny, but they do. i was going out with a girl from north london for a few months a long while ago. when meeting a new group or people on a night out it was kinda obvious who’s group of friends they were, if you know what i mean.

Christians. The same sentence then seemingly becomes inoffensive or far less so, and certainly there isn’t an “anti” word specific to them.

maybe we should invent one?

mutilating little boys penises

That’s not anti-Semitic. I’m afraid it’s a fact. There is more than one religion seeming to be a bit fixated on removing infant foreskin… With modern hygiene – there is a very slim case for removal and the case there is is more about reducing HPV transmission.

What does both interest and concern me is the way we focus almost singularly on one act of genocide from the last 200 or so years. Globally, we seem far more concerned with the Jewish holocaust than we care about ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, the wholesale destruction of Native American people’s or the very recent attack on the aboriginal peoples of Australia… It may be just my perception but we seem to spend a lot of time, effort and money appeasing the state of Israel and not a lot helping other (Direct and descendants of) victims of similar actions.

Quick point.

Many British males pre WW2 were circumcised as a matter of course.
It was pretty common practice and had been for years.

.

Done in the name of health, rather than in the name of god.

A lot of what was done in the name of health, moral or common sense has been perverted over the years to be the word of god.

Rusty – where did you get your info from please? I did a quick search and came up with the following link which disputes your claim:

http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=7&id=72&Itemid=51

EDIT: It seems to say that at the end of the 19th Century and early 20th it was more common.

I’m not against circumcision per se (indeed I’m a ‘member’ [ho ho] of the club myself). However I strongly believe that it should be the individual’s choice, which means ‘adult’. The creepy thing about religious circumcision is the sucking of the child’s cut penis. A couple of infections have happened in the past.

I deleted that bit because it was irrelevant to the point, just for clarification.

But if people are going to use circumcision as a criticism of Judaism, best to be aware of the bigger picture.

Theres reduced transmission of HIV in circumsised males (antigen presenting cells on the inner lining of the foreskin take the virus in to illicit an immune response, but that’s just what HIV wants)

That said, it’s still genital mutilation (results in loss of sensation) and should be treated as such, regardless of religious or cultural bullshit. Condoms are much better protection.

Biggest…tangent…ever…And I have been here a fair while!

From talking to people who were around at the time, mostly Adam.

My dad was born in Sheffield in 1916 and raised as a Catholic.
He recalled that the vast majority of his generation were routinely circumcised.

It was discussed then as we’re discussing it now, religious aspect and all.

I’ve also worked with lots of blokes from the same generation from the Manchester/West Yorkshire area who reported the same thing.

It’s an issue in care work for obvious reasons, with many older folk unable to take care of their own personal hygiene.
It appears to be very prevelant in that particular generation.

Theres reduced transmission of HIV in circumsised males

This makes it sound like the reason for circumcision is because they’re spreading their seed a little too widely amongst the flock.

Theres a certain irony to a discussion about an important racial and religious issue being reduced to bell ends

🙂
It’s for the best.

jivehoneyjive – Member
I’ll take that to mean you can’t answer…

Hey, your’re the one with all the answers!

as an aside, why do Jews generally have big noses? i’m not being funny, but they do. i was going out with a girl from north london for a few months a long while ago. when meeting a new group or people on a night out it was kinda obvious who’s group of friends they were, if you know what i mean.

That’s a trait of many of the North African and Mediterranean peoples, Jews and Arabs are the same ethnic group, as are the early Christians because they’re all Abrahamic, the People of Abraham.
I believe it may possibly be to do with increased surface area of the nasal cavities due to living in hot climates, but I’ve not done any research to back that up.

Woah, back up there a minute…

the sucking of the child’s cut penis

Erm, what?

There’s also the small matter of the Catholic church blaming the Jews for betraying and killing their Christ, omitting, of course, that Christ was a Jew himself.

Notwithstanding that, isn’t Jesus being killed kind of critical to what Christianity is all about?

Theres a certain irony to a discussion about an important racial and religious issue being reduced to bell ends

Good work 🙂

As others have already said, anti-Zionism (criticism of Israel) and anti-Semitism (hatred of Jews) shouldn’t be considered one and the same.

But, it is convenient for pro-Zionists to conflate anti-Semitism with criticism of Israel because it instantly shuts down debate.

Norman Finkelstein; The Holocaust Industry, a book worth reading.

nose size is a function of sinus cavity size and thats all about climate, humidity, temperature etc.
There are certainly regional clustering of nose shape, but the aquiline profile isnt just limited to Jews, native amrican, some african, Roman…

Close religions/cultures dont like marriage outside the community so traits are less likely to be diluted out, could just have help preserve it

also interesting that genetic studies have suggested that Ashkenazhi Jewish populations may have originated in prehistoric Italy, before becoming established in the middle east (at least the women), maybe its a pre-roman Nose!

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

@devash-that is the most succinctly worded summary of the issue I have ever read. Good work – permission to steal it…

Not really my comfort zone, but here goes: male circumcision is not limited to Jewish boys, it still happens in Colonial countries, caught on in NZ and Oz after all the troops came back from the desert campaigns in WWI and WWII. Certainly in mine and my parents generation it was prevalent, I understand it was considered to be cleaner in some way.

Proud round head.

Cavaliers are weird

Not Jewish but I am a Yiddo

C’mon you Spurs