Another war in Palestine

Well all I can say is I just wish people would stop being such arseholes to each other.  this world is feeling more and more unstable.  seems people are thinking nows the time to settle old scores.

I just hope it stops quickly and casualties on both sides are as minimal as they can be.

Are you really are that desperate to justify Israel’s murderous tactics that you have to drag up events which occurred 50 years?

The most potent propaganda that Israeli right-wingers have is that the world doesn’t care about Jews being killed. Attacks on Israeli civilians have been happening for many decades, that’s exactly the point that Israeli right-wingers make. Dismissing them because they happened 50 years ago is just confirming the claim that nobody cares about the killing of Jews. Cheering on the events of today is the best propaganda that right-wingers could possibly ask for.

<em style=”box-sizing: border-box; –tw-translate-x: 0; –tw-translate-y: 0; –tw-rotate: 0; –tw-skew-x: 0; –tw-skew-y: 0; –tw-scale-x: 1; –tw-scale-y: 1; –tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; –tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; –tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; –tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); –tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000;”>Israel killed five times as many Palestinians in 2022 than it killed in the same period in 2021

Was that in retaliation for Entebbe?

Sadly likely to be higher again in 2023 but not retaliation for Entebbe. You seem to have a total hard on for the murder of innocent Israeli civilians. I’m guessing you’ve never been in a conflict zone but happy to pontificate from the comfort of your armchair.

Does @FlyingOxs post not give you some pause to reflect?

I just hope it stops quickly and casualties on both sides are as minimal as they can be.

Unfortunately an escalated conflict will suit the leadership on both sides.

Unfortunately an escalated conflict will suit the leadership on both sides.

This is sadly true.

You seem to have a total hard on for the murder of innocent Israeli civilians.

Classy stuff mate.

I can’t comment on whether it is sexual but you seem to have a total and callous disregard for the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians.

I posted this but you are obviously completely dismissive of such things:

“The Israeli politicians bear full responsibility for the killings of Palestinians, especially those unarmed women and children killed in cold blood without posing any threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers.”

It is not be what FlyingOx has said but it is what a United Nations agency has reported.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-killed-five-times-many-palestinians-2022-it-killed-same

Suddenly it becomes a serious issue because Israeli civilians are dying, as long as the only civilians dying are Palestinians then it isn’t anything to be too concerned about.

Ernie – simple question – kidnap of Isreali civilians last night – is that OK with you? Yes or no?

Of course he isn’t, what a dumb troll question.

Would you ask that sort of question in response to those who wrote this article in the Guardian?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/israeli-settlers-attack-palestinian-villages-following-deadly-hamas-strike

I don’t recall a thread concerning that development back in June, why? Civilians definitely died. In fact they were murdered.

But presumably those particular civilians don’t matter, eh?

But presumably those particular civilians don’t matter, eh?

What a stupid thing to say.

Okay, what then is your explanation to why there wasn’t thread on that incident, Palestinian civilians do matter but not quite as much as Israeli civilians?

I don’t expect a thread every time civilians are murdered in a conflict but it is alarming imo how it suddenly becomes a particularly sensitive issue when the civilians are Israeli.

Okay, what is your explanation to why there wasn’t thread on the incident,

I assume because you don’t care enough about Palestinian civilians. As you said yourself, they don’t matter.

I have just pointed out “I don’t expect a thread every time civilians are murdered in a conflict”.

It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.

The idea that Palestinian and Israeli civilian deaths are treated with equal horror is frankly ridiculous.

It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.

Something you are free to alter, but perhaps you’re more interested in an argument than the plight of Palestinian civilians.

perhaps you’re more interested in an argument

He says after posting:

As you said yourself, they don’t matter.

Yeah, you’re not just looking for an argument at all, I really did say that the Palestinians “don’t matter” 🙄

Yeah, you’re not just looking for an argument at all, I really did say that the Palestinians “don’t matter” 🙄

Yep, when you impugned the motives of another poster on the basis of no evidence whatsoever. On the other hand your mealy mouthed excuses for the targeting of civilians are instructive.

It appears to me that only time there is a thread on stw concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict it is when there has been several Israeli casualties or the Palestinian resistance launches a significant attack.

Just to be clear that ^^ wasn’t aimed as a criticism of what is posted concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, this latest development is undoubtedly a huge news story which clearly deserves a thread.

The comment was in relation of what is perceived to be newsworthy. The day to day repression and murder of Palestinians gets relatively little coverage, if any at all.

‘Do you agree with this ? No response

Retort – ‘Do you agree with this ? No response.

Can we stop this pointless roundabout ?

Just to be clear that ^^ wasn’t aimed as a criticism of what is posted concerning the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, this latest development is undoubtedly a huge news story which clearly deserves a thread.

Give over. You were replying to wbo then quite clearly questioned their motives.

Can we stop this pointless roundabout ?

Perhaps they are trying to represent the conflict via forum messages.
Each side blaming the other and claiming they have to respond to the last atrocity ad infinitum.

You were replying to wbo then quite clearly questioned their motives.

You think that dragging the thread into the gutter and talking about “hard ons” is acceptable? Really?

Edit: Ah I see the problem, a mod appears to have deleted his post, I will assume that you didn’t see it ransos.

The irony of this thread mirroring the conflict…

…an absolute **** shitshow.

Well this is edifying…..

Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.

What message does that send out to the Palestinian people?

Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.

You said you don’t expect a thread on it, and didn’t bother to start one, yet criticise others for the same. I find it difficult to believe that you are posting in good faith.

But as others have said, this is unedifying, so I’m getting out of the gutter

Anyway I reckon the one thing that we can take away from this is that the world (and stw) only starts talking about Palestine when the Palestinians launch an aggressive attack against Israel.

The day to day low level conflict does become background and ignored by the media after a while. After all its no longer news so only a major change gets the headlines.
If the Israelis launched an all out attack first it would have also got the news.
It is clearly a problem and it does look like Hamas are at least partially responding to the normalising of relations by Saudi Arabia and others. Unfortunately that pushes them pretty much into Iran sphere of influence and given the Iranian government doesnt give a toss about its own citizens let alone Palestinians and definitely not Israeli that is more likely to result in an aggressive posture.
Its depressing but outside of a Mandela being elected in both Israel and Palestinian national authority at the same time there doesnt seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.
The Israeli approach mostly keeps a lid on things (this being an obvious exception (edit for stupidity)) but at the cost of leaving a bunch of young Palestinians, especially males, not being able to see a normal future and hence being prey to the promises of extremists offering status via alternate means.

I fear both the Palestinians and the Israeli right wing government need another conflict to be able to get attention/support for their respective causes. One being infinitely more worthy than the other.

What a **** disastrous mess. Again.

Well, when Shireen Abu Akleh, an Al Jazeera reporter, was shot in the face and killed by Israeli troopers while reporting on an Israeli Army incursion over a year ago, I was tempted to start a thread about the incident. The way this one has developed has only underpinned my thought process at the time. It would have been asking for a pile-on. I absolutely despair about the hypocrisy on show in the Middle East.

The world has ignored incursions by Israel, in fact outwith Al Jazeera it isnt going to make the news, So the lack of condemnation is tantamount to encouragement. So support for the Palestinian people is a natural response.

However, Hamas is clearly a brutal terrorist organization, which doesn’t appear to care about the Palestinian plight and are just bigots like other fundamentalists, and what this has done is set back the support anyone in the western world has had for the Palestinian people.

Both sides appear to be currently targeting civilians. Or rather I should say having no thought for civilians caught in their crossfire.

What I find puzzling is how despite global public opinion slowly but relentlessly shifting more and more in favour of the Palestinians, as a direct result of Israeli government behaviour, established Western political parties, well certainly in the UK and probably the US, are becoming evermore intolerant of any criticism made against Israel.

The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs has actually been strongly critised for this post on twitter:

Deeply concerned by reports from Gaza and Israel. Civilians must be protected, I am especially horrified to hear about hostage taking, and all violence condemned. This is a significant escalation. I can’t see how it ends well for anyone.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/07/israel-gaza-rockets-hamas-tel-aviv-palestine-layla-moran/

I have witnessed so many people slowly change from a staunchly pro Israeli position to one of outspoken criticism.

For me by far the most remarkable conversion was that of onetime staunch Zionist Gerald Kaufman. And Kaufman was no leftie, he was firmly on the right of the Labour Party and if he was still alive undoubtedly a Starmer supporter.

“It is time to remind Sharon that the Star of David belongs to all Jews, not to his repulsive Government. His actions are staining the star of David with blood. The Jewish people, whose gifts to civilised discourse include Einstein and Epstein, Mendelssohn and Mahler, Sergei Eisenstein and Billy Wilder, are now symbolised throughout the world by the blustering bully Ariel Sharon, a war criminal implicated in the murder of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila camps and now involved in killing Palestinians once again.”

Kaufman in a speech given to the House of Commons, during Israel’s military operation codenamed Defensive Shield in April 2002

I can’t imagine that speech being given today in the House of Commons. Or if it was Kaufman would be expelled from the Labour Party for antisemitism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Kaufman

Totally agree, well said.

However, Hamas is clearly a brutal terrorist organization, which doesn’t appear to care about the Palestinian plight and are just bigots like other fundamentalists, and what this has done is set back the support anyone in the western world has had for the Palestinian people.

Partially agree. Politically it’s going to be harder to support them but I don’t think anyone is going to change their minds on Isreals track record.

As with Isreal the state =/= the people.

“all violence condemned”

When one group launched an attack that intentionally targeted not just civilians but children. Abductions and executions. Parading and defiling the bodies of the murdered.

Damn right she got criticised for it.

That’s your opinion. The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.

The killing of Palestinian children by Israeli forces, who have a completely limitless access to weaponry, is well documented – see the link to United Nations agency article further up the page.

The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.

It wasn’t an  accident

The idea that the Palestinian resistance deliberately targets their extremely limited resources at civilians, rather than useful military assets, is daft in my opinion.

Over the years there have been hundreds of direct attacks on Israeli civilians by Palestinians. Suicide bombings on buses, schools, restaurants, mass shootings, car bombings and stabbings on randomly selected civilians.

There are reports coming out of Sderot today of people being being dragged out of their cars randomly and having their throats slit.

I deplore the Israeli blockade of Gaza and their disproportionate retaliatory violence directed at its citizens. I support a Palestinian state and complete Israeli withdrawal from the settlements. But to say Palestinian armed groups don’t also target civilians is just wilful ignorance.

There are reports coming out of Sderot today of people being being dragged out of their cars randomly and having their throats slit.

videos too

@ernielynch these were executions of children, you ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist. 

you ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist.

Well it’s obviously impossible to have any reasonable debate over the issue.

Twice previously I have posted this link

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-killed-five-times-many-palestinians-2022-it-killed-same

Which includes:

At least eight field executions were recorded under the pretext of suspicion or attempted stabbing, as the Israeli army left all the victims to bleed to death. The injured were not provided with any first aid in flagrant violation of the rules of international humanitarian law.

The Israeli politicians bear full responsibility for the killings of Palestinians, especially those unarmed women and children killed in cold blood without posing any threat to the lives of Israeli soldiers.

I can’t see that you have condemned that. Would it be fair to call you a ghoulish, morally-bankrupt terrorism apologist?

I really don’t know enough to comment on the rights and wrongs of either side, but what is quite eye opening is my instagram feed being bombarded with pro Israel posts tonight. Not like my usual posts are the kind of thing that would drive that kind of content to my timeline and other than this thread I haven’t clicked on anything else to do with the subject. Virtually every recommended post is some random person with a post or video condemning Hamas and supporting Israel