An uncomfortable health question CIRCUMCISION CONTENT

For the record, mine was for medical reasons not because a voice told a bronze age shepherd.

If I had a son, I’d not get it done unless for medical reasons. As I have daughters, I don’t have to worry about a penis; instead, I have to worry about all the penises.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

… because they get paid to do it, one would assume.

I could go through those points one by one but I can’t be chuffed. Suffice to say, there’s a lot of misinformation and a number of very poorly conducted “studies” kicking about.

Culturally, it’s a very American tradition. Last time I looked at stats for this (a couple of years ago), it was something like 90% of American men were circumcised, versus 90% who weren’t pretty much everywhere else in the world (IIRC anyway). It’d take a brave American surgeon to stand up and say “hey, you know this surgery we’ve performed on 40% of the population? It’s utterly pointless!” So, on the topic of circumcision, I’d take anything an American Academy of Anything has to say with a pinch of salt.

Well youre definately wrong on one point, I was knocked out for mine.

I’m only wrong because you took half of my sentence out of context. I said “… unnecessary genital surgery on non-consenting infants without anaesthetic.” Yours was, presumably, necessary (and you were older than an infant?).

Raises a good point though. They felt it necessary to knock you out, yet some belief systems (the Jewish faith is one, not sure about others offhand) expressly forbid anaesthesia beyond a bit of antiseptic cream afterwards. The pain is part of the ritual, apparently. And people volunteer their week-old babies for this? Words fail me.

I was bored.. I opened this thread… I saw

Just teach them to peel back and wash it in the bath

WTF? Not serious, I hope. Terrible advice.

They felt it necessary to knock you out, yet some belief systems (the Jewish faith is one, not sure about others offhand) expressly forbid anaesthesia beyond a bit of antiseptic cream afterwards. The pain is part of the ritual, apparently.

i was done in a hospital and was knocked out too…all i remember is being given the anaesthetic and then told to stare at the Mr Men painted on the ceiling…

i cant comment on how its done in Judaism but in Islam circumcision is also known as tahara, meaning purification.
The main reason given for the ritual is cleanliness. It is essential that every Muslim washes via ablution before praying and part of this act of cleaning includes having no urine left on the body.
In Islam there is no fixed age for circumcision. The age at which it is performed varies depending on family, region and country.
The preferred age is often seven although some Muslims are circumcised as early as the seventh day after birth and as late as puberty.
There is no equivalent of a Jewish ‘mohel’ in Islam. Circumcisions are usually carried out in a clinic or hospital. The circumciser is not required to be a Muslim but he must be medically trained.

i accept its not for everyone and some of you dont agree with this especially when its being carried out on young children, but when my son was done after being anaesthetised the surgery itself lasted only 20 minutes. the bell fell off after 5 days and the wound had healed by the following week…the only time he cried was when he was being injected with the anaesthetic.

some belief systems (the Jewish faith is one, not sure about others offhand) expressly forbid anaesthesia beyond a bit of antiseptic cream afterwards

indeed, as the Torah says:

“Then dress Aaron in the sacred garments, anoint his bleeding glans with Sudocrem and consecrate him so he may serve me as priest”.

The main reason given for the ritual is cleanliness. It is essential that every Muslim washes via ablution before praying and part of this act of cleaning includes having no urine left on the body.

Whilst I can see the reasoning behind this in ancient times, we have extensive washing facilities these days.

The main reason originally given for the ritual is cleanliness; the actual main reason these days is tradition. You do it because you always have.

we have extensive washing facilities these days.

i know…i use one of these to keep it clean… 😛

but seriously though…cleanliness and hygiene is the main reason and the reason is simple to understand when put in the right context.
i’ve not had a foreskin for nearly 30 years but i am assuming that when peeing from a non-circumcised “ahem”, there is a chance that some urine may not pass and can collect under the foreskin.
if i were not circumcised and were to carry out my daily prayers i have to cleanse myself before each prayer but technically my body would not be clean due to the trapped traces of urine…but being circumcised reduces the chances of trace amounts of urine being trapped.
if my body is not clean, i cannot perform my prayers

Whilst I can see the reasoning behind this in ancient times, we have extensive washing facilities these days.

The main reason originally given for the ritual is cleanliness; the actual main reason these days is tradition. You do it because you always have.

You say that, but how many people on this thread have 1st/2nd hand experience of it being infected. Quite a lot. I’ll quote this one as an example:

I’d never had a single problem prior to this and came totalyl out fo the blue, I spent an incredibly uncomfortable 2-3 weeks with problems down there, resulting in the doubly uncomfortable combination of both a swollen, red, itchy dry foreskin, but also temporary phimosis due to the problem, meaning it was a bugger to keep clean and since it had lost all elasticity the surface of the skin split and cracked (!) when trying to retract to clean and apply ointment.

It’s the same argument as vaccination, do you put the child at a slight risk now for the sake of avoiding problems in the future.

Quite a lot.

While I can understand that people can get infected anywhere this is the first time I have heard of a lot of people having this. I call ‘bull’.

It’s the same argument as vaccination, do you put the child at a slight risk now for the sake of avoiding a very slight risk of problems in the future.

FTFY.

Anaesthesia is always risky. Unless you’re one of those creepy priests who suck the end of the willy after chopping off the foreskin which may cause infection and/or death?[/url] Eww.

wow, bad enough that I shared that little episode of my life, now TINAS has quoted me 🙁

For the record, I still have my foreskin and the advice from Dr’s was that they would only consider circumcision if it was necessary and the problem could not be cleared up via conventional medication and treatment.

I certainly wouldn’t/won’t get my (future) kids done without a valid medical reason, chiefly because I don’t think it is necessary but also because I think that’s the kind of thing that they should decide for themselves.

but how many people on this thread have 1st/2nd hand experience of it being infected. Quite a lot

Could that possibly be that we have a self selecting sample going on though?

Naturally the people most likely to post on a circumcision thread are those that have first hand experience of being circumcised, and the two main reason you will have had it done are either

A> a medical reason
B> belief that it is a sensible thing to do to prevent medical problems

Which means group A people are distorting your sample distribution, and group B people are here re-enforcing their viewpoint by pointing out how many group A people are here!

what about group C?

C> not circumcised, no history of problems and no interest in this thread

cleanliness and hygiene is the main reason

It may well be the main reason cited. An uncircumcised is no more dirty or unhygenic than a circumcised one, assuming you wash occasionally. You seem to be under the impression that a foreskin is some sort of urine sponge. It isn’t. And even if it was a pee trap, that means you’ve just got a small area to fret about cleaning rather than worrying about anything that might have dribbled down your leg.

i am assuming

There you go, then.

If you’re that bothered about it, you could simply roll it out of the way whilst you pee. Mine’s the same as yours, then.

if my body is not clean, i cannot perform my prayers

Oh, you really can, you just [choose / are told]* not to.

(* delete where applicable.)

It’s the same argument as vaccination

It would be difficult to be a more different argument.

One is a ritual practice often passed off with ill-supported hand-wavey health “benefits” to justify it, the other is a near-painless routine procedure which in a very real way can save the lives of not just yourself but those around you.

the two main reason you will have had it done are either

A> a medical reason
B> belief that it is a sensible thing to do to prevent medical problems

You missed religious / tradition reasons, which I’ll bet my own foreskin is the main reason the vast, vast majority of people have had it done (whiny white middle-class cockbag STW skewed demographic aside).

C> not circumcised, no history of problems and no a car crash rubbernecker interest in this thread

FTFY

This would be me

C as per wombat here

Didn’t realise for my 36 years I was carrying a urine trap in my pants. As mentioned above, if you’re worried that some fictitious character out of some story book won’t listen to you because you may have a tiny, tiny amount of urine on the tip of your manhood then just peel it back. It’s not hard (snigger)

Why don’t you get a bottle cleaner and ram it down your urethra too, I’m sure there’d be an odd drop left in there.

FFs!

It would be difficult to be a more different argument.

One is a ritual practice often passed off with ill-supported hand-wavey health “benefits” to justify it, the other is a near-painless routine procedure which in a very real way can save the lives of not just yourself but those around you.

Leave asside the religious angle for a moment. Or at least accept that a lot of religious stuff is just the use of religion as a convenient way of spreading and conserving knowlage.

They’re both pretty painless (with anastetic)
They both prevent future infections (knob cheese, HIV, herpes)
They both prevent those infections spreading

Its not 100% immunity, and its probably higher risk than most vaccinations. But it is the same reasoning.

Unless you’re one of those creepy priests who suck the end of the willy after chopping off the foreskin which may cause infection and/or death? Eww.

Its one thing to debate whether circumcisions of medical benefit. Its another to insinuate that anyone who thinks its a good idea is some sort of peadophilic sadist!

They’re both pretty painless (with anastetic)
They both prevent future infections (knob cheese, HIV, herpes)
They both prevent those infections spreading

I’ve never had an infection, keep my knob clean and no one has cut a bit off. I call that a win.

Houns & Wombat +1

Its one thing to debate whether circumcisions of medical benefit. Its another to insinuate that anyone who thinks its a good idea is some sort of peadophilic sadist!

Good attempt to smear, but it doesn’t work. *some* of the religious nutters do this, if you saw the link. Baby died because of herpes infection caused by this.

Also as I mentioned – anaesthesia is not a minor thing especially in a child. You seem to think it is an easy walk in the park.

They’re both pretty painless (with anastetic)

As I’ve said more than once, some beliefs expressly forbid pain relief (Judaism forbids it in infants but not in adults, work that one out). But ok, let’s assume anaesthetic, which of course is totally safe to use with infants. Why not whip out the appendix whilst you’re at it? That’s far more likely to spontaneously kill you than a spot of chelmet header.

We could totally wipe out breast cancer at a stroke by removing breast buds in girls, and that’s something which affects, what, one in 10 women? Shall we add that to the list?

They both prevent future infections (knob cheese

So does washing, and I’m not aware of any fatal cases of smegma.

HIV, herpes)

a) no it really doesn’t, this is a myth based on poorly conducted studies.

b) condoms provide protection against most STDs in a high-90s percentage of cases (and most of the failures there are down to user error).

They both prevent those infections spreading

No, they don’t, they’re not even remotely comparable. Vaccination has in some cases completely eradicated previously horrific diseases. Ironically, we’re now seeing a resurgence of some of them due to the anti-vaxer assclowns.

On the other hand, the single biggest difference that circumcision makes in the prevention of the transfer of STDs is that immediately post-surgery blokes aren’t likely to want to stick it in mucky women for a while.

Here, read this.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/more-circumcision-myths-you-may-believe-hygiene-and-stds

The related articles are worth reading too. Going full circle, it perhaps explains the OP’s issues and the “I had to be circumcised because I kept getting UTIs” comment earlier as well.

if i were not circumcised and were to carry out my daily prayers i have to cleanse myself before each prayer but technically my body would not be clean due to the trapped traces of urine…

I think you should reread what you wrote, take a long sit down, and reflect on what a stupid pursuit you’re engaged in if it requires you to have your children’s genitals altered to comply with some medieval notion of cleanliness.

The key is in the word ‘might’. I ‘might’ grow an extra set of arms so I can play multiplayer Destiny by myself but it is unlikely to happen.

You’d also be able to cosplay as a Fallen Vandal…

There are worse things than circumcision… Not for the squeamish…here

there are worse things than being poked in the eye repeatedly with a cucumber, doesn’t mean there’s a queue forming for it though…