am i getting crapped on at work?

sorry this is a bit long but here goes….
i started working at my current place 5 years ago…initially things started off well but got worse as my line manager turned out to be a monster who would bully and harrass me constantly…it eventually got to the point where HR got involved and decided that i should no longer work in that role…they couldnt sack me so they offered me another role for a different team within the same division…upon being offered the post the director of the division assured me that as the role was new and yet undefined, i would play an instrumental role in defining the role and how it contributed to the division as a whole…
the head of the new team was on maternity leave so didnt have a say in my new role but upon her return she has been very frosty about my appointment…as i am the only member of her team who hasnt been appointed by her…she then went on maternity leave again soon after and since her return last year i feel my role and responsibilities are slowly being eroded away by her.
while she was off the first time i was given great support by the director and my line manager and was always encouraged to develop myself professionally by taking any courses etc…but since her return this seems to have dried out whilst its still available for other staff members…she seems reluctant to put me on any training courses…during that time she has also seemed to show a general lack of professional courtesy towards me or my work and will make snide or sarcastic remarks in front of others…often to make me look small…no-one else says anything as they are too scared and want to stay in her good books…those she likes she helps to progress and those she doesnt like dont…
since her return last year after her second child, she has instructed my line manager that any work that i am asked to do has to go through my manager and not come to me direct…all of a sudden my work has to be monitored but previously it has been fine…now it seems i get given all the crappy jobs..up to the point where other staff members are asked to do things that i should be doing as in its in my job description and my role is defined by this work…
what’s made things worse is that my line manager suffered a stroke 2 months ago and will be off for some time so she is now managing me and is being even stricter with what work i am given…seems the element of trust is not there…but what makes things worse is the fact that i made a request for flexible working and she reluctantly agreed…
my old hours were 8.45 – 4.45 and i asked to change them to 10 – 6 so i can drop the kids off at school…she said that she does not agree with 10am starts and 9.30 is the latest i could start, after more negotiating we agreed on 9.45 – 5.30 with 45 mins for lunch…i informed her this would only be until the summer term ends as my son is in reception and he is too young for the breakfast club so i can only drop him off at school at 9. previously this was not an issue as my wife was on maternity leave herself but she returned to work last month…
but the thing that really pissed me off was that a few weeks ago we had an event at work, the normal practice is that everyone mucks in and as the event finishes quite late…any extra hours done can then be claimed back as toil…i had 2 hours owing to me so i put the request in to her to claim them…i got no response so i asked her this morning about it and her response was “i was a bit disappointed you asked for those hours back considering we are being very flexible with your current hours”…so long and short of it is she denied me my 2 hours but is willing to let me claim back an hour as a gesture of good will…bit of a piss take if you ask me…i think the reason she is playing hard with me over this is that i think she has found out that i have applied for another job…and maybe pissed at me for trying to leave as that would mean that both me and my line manager are missing from the team so there will be no-one to do our work…
i’m not even bothered about the 2 hours but more about the principal of it all…why should i not be entitled to the same as other staff members…some of whom also have flexible working arrangements in place…or am i being paranoid?

Tell her you will take a three hour lunch break and that you will feel disappointed if they dont want to pay you for this…see if she reacts the same way.
It is a formal relationship with rules you stick to them and so do they.
it is that simple/complex when it is contractual.
TBH your big problem is she does not seem to want you there
How you manage that is the real crux and I have limited advice to offer on this front.
Have you tried just discussing this with her in the manner you have here?

Ps have all correspondence y e-mail and send a copy to an offsite e-mail account

Have you tried just discussing this with her in the manner you have here?

i did that this morning and the answer was 1 hour as goodwill….but ist ok for everyone else to claim back their full hours….

she does not seem to want you there

that bit is definitely true but very hard to prove…she cant get rid of me so it seems she is trying to force me to leave…which i am trying to do now because the job has become so crap now…they dont care about the development of any of the workers except a few chosen ones who they think the world of, the rest of us a just a bunch of skivvys to be crapped on…
i cant complain to the director as she has his ear and has an influence on him…that’s the reason why he backed off being supportive of me upon her return…
i’ve tred to discuss this with my line manager but when she has tried to help me she has been put in her place…her responses now usually go along the lines of “she’s our boss so we have to do as she instructs” or “you have to pick your battles and this one you’ll lose so youre better off dropping this one”…

to make things worse…my car broke down yesterday on the way to work so i phoned her to tell her i’d be late as i needed to be towed to the garage…i managed to borrow another car to get into work…i was 2.5 hours late, but she told me i would have to book it as half a days annual leave…normal office hours are 7 hours plus 1 hour for lunch and taking half a day off equates to 3.5 hours…
i pointed this out to her this morning and that technically i was owed a further hour…went down like a lead balloon with her…

i did that this morning and the answer was 1 hour as goodwill….but ist ok for everyone else to claim back their full hours….

Tel her you ill make your lunch break 2 hours as a goodwill gesture- 😉
If this is the case and you can prove it I would ask her to explain her managerial decision as to why everyone else got their contractual obligations and you get less for the same work. I would also quote my contract tbh and by e-mail.
You do your hours you just do them at different times

IME [ Union rep] it will be very hard for her to defend this as it is clearly “personal” and not what your contract of employment states
I very much doubt [ she has no right to violate your contract] she authority to do this tbh from the organisation never mind legally.

i’m not in a union so have no back up there…i’m a bit reluctant to take it up with HR as i get the feeling they will side with her due to her influence and level of seniority there…and that she knows quite a few senior HR people very well…
even if it was resolved i still dont want to be here any more…its a shit place to work…too many cliques are being formed and quite a lot of snobbery now goes on with some people thinking “i’m better than you cos i’m on a higher pay grade than you”…yet these are the ones who do absolutely naff all to earn their salaries apart from talk crap all day and suck up to those above them

Make a sexual harrasment claim against her 😀

I would not give them work for nothing anymore than they will pay me to sit at home. I would not care how senior they are the contract exists for both sides and their is no way they will let you ignore your half and pay you ot not work so why work for free?

FWIW I am not sure she can force you to take leave for this either but that would depend on your contract

Make a sexual harrasment claim against her

no but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted…but i wont as i dont think her treatment is based on race but purely on the fact that she’s never liked me and hates the fact that i was put on her team without her say so…the timing of my application for another job elsewhere probably hasnt helped either…the reason i say this is because i put her down as one of my referees and i said i was happy for them to contact nay of my referees prior to offering me an interview…the job is internal within the same organisation (university)

I’ve not read all that but let me guess, she finds your work overly verbose and your reports hard to read?

FWIW I am not sure she can force you to take leave for this either but that would depend on your contract

she’s done it with others and i think the university has a policy on this so i can accept that bit apart from her giving be back what i am owed which is currently 3 hours

Short term; what does your contract say about paid overtime? Is she breaching your contract?

Personally, I’m happy either to work to rule or for there to be give and take, but the door has to swing both ways. Where I am currently I’m happy to work an hour or two’s overtime and not claim it back, but then no-one would bat an eyelid if I rolled in an hour late the next day or took a long lunch to run errands. No way would I be working for free, unless it was a charity or something anyway.

WRT this:

she has also seemed to show a general lack of professional courtesy towards me or my work and will make snide or sarcastic remarks in front of others…often to make me look small…

This is bullying, and you absolutely need to put a stop to it. If it were me, I’d ask to see them in a side office and explain that public humiliation is unacceptable, and it stops immediately or you escalate the issue.

Long term: You need to get out of there. As Randall said to Dante, shit or get off the pot. It’s not clear whether the root cause lies with you or with management, but regardless it doesn’t sound like it’s going to get better any time soon unless you can get someone sympathetic in upper management / HR. Start looking for something else, the best time to get a job is when you already have one. Then go after them for constructive dismissal (-:

She does sound a bit of a bitch and there’s no easy (legal…) solution. Just find another job and only work the hours you’re paid in the meantime.
Although as a line manager myself I take a dim view on people haggling over the odd hour (and I’d also expect you take take a half day if you were 2.5 hours late). however in return I’m flexible if you need appointments, have to take an extra half hour for lunch from time to time, need to leave a bit early etc. Flexibility works both ways.

Could it be your fault too ?

You do seem to be whinging about the odd hour here or there, making things rather complex and trying to go over peoples heads because you feel badly done to ?

Irrelevent of everything else – So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late…

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I’m not surprised she wants you monitored.

Been there had the bitch from hell, all plausible to senior management, found out she was running a fiddle and pointed it out to a fellow worker who then imediately told her, got daggers for weeks,written warnings for nothing, and hated the job.

The woman i mentioned it to said i had more chance of a snowball surviving in hell than staying in my current job, that night things blew up i told her to stick her job after being given a final written warning, and walked out,went to gp next day, got a sick note for a month, walked home and a recorded delivery letter there saying i had been sacked for gross misconduct.
One of the happiest days of my life as i then sent one back to her saying i resigned the day before.

Just leave, she hates you and you have no chance.

Could it be your fault too ?

You do seem to be whinging about the odd hour here or there, making things rather complex and trying to go over peoples heads because you feel badly done to ?

why should i do 2 hours extra work for free when no-one else around here does?
they are pretty flexible given work hours i.e. if you turn up 30 minutes late then you leave 30 minutes late…we dont get overtime but are allowed to claim TOIL…so why am i being refused this when it is granted to everyone else?
there have been plenty of times when i have stayed later or have worked through my lunch and not claimed it back…but in this instance i would like to claim those hours back the same as others
also regarding the half day i took yesterday…others have also done this when they have taken half a day due to unforseen circumstances, have turned up earlier than expected and then been told we owe you x hours so take that as TOIL…so again why not for me?

So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late…

Yes those are the facts do you have a view on it ? Oh wait here it is

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I’m not surprised she wants you monitored.

Yes why can he not express his opinions so clearly and eloquently like you did and like I am about to

Hmm

Oh the ironing
There are threads to take the piss and threads to be supportive see if you can work out what type this is ?

Because sometimes you have to be more flexible fella… i’m reading your posts and not getting the impression you are…

It seems to me it’s only half her fault… Whilst i think she’s being out of order and a bit of a cow… i’m not getting the impression you’re helping yourself greatly.

All of that said… i echo the “leave” post, in simple terms it’s where you spend the largest majority of your waking life… it should be a good place to be.

so if everyone worked late and everyone got toil and you got half the toil of everyone you would consider that fair and any moaning as not helping yourself?

It seems clear he is being deliberately targeted and the response of be more flexible is a rather strange one

Irrelevent of everything else – So you were well late for work, as in turned-up almost at lunch time. She suggested you took a 1/2 day, and you responded that a 1/2 day is 3.5 hours whereas you were only 2.5 hours late…

Hmm.

Also tbh if you work like you write, I’m not surprised she wants you monitored.

i actually start at 9.45 but usually i’m in the office at my desk at 9.30…and i take my lunch at 2.15 so i can spend some of my 45 minutes dropping off the car to my wife so she can go and pick up the kids after she has finished work…

b r – maybe you should go sit under a bridge and wait for 3 goats… 😯

update: i’ve just got word that my father in law is in a bad way in hospital and she is going to give me some time off…whether its as compassionate leave will depend on HR but at least she has a heart…
depending on how things go i may not be able to add further comments to this thread…but i will on my return…
thanks for all the helpful advice folks!

I think I agree with Weeksy.

My team (with the exception of 1) work flexibly and I appreciate that. When they need a bit of “flexi” time (even though we dont do it as a company) as the head of a department I give it to them. The relationship is pretty good and when I need them to work harder they will.

If one of them come to me and told me they were owed 2 hours I think I would take a dim view!

It seems clear he is being deliberately targeted and the response of be more flexible is a rather strange one

Nope, not seeing it…

Well look at that, middle management baboons use a forum devoted to the new golf, who’d have thought it.

Nope, not seeing it..

You did read the thread didn’t you which also answers your question explicitly..granted you need to read the first three posts

Do you routinely single out one person to have less time for TOIL than everyone else present or would you consider this to be victimising someone?

You know sometimes I am ashamed to be on this site as no difficult personal issue seems off limits to trolling or half arsed reading if I want to be kind to you.
I am not bothering to feed any more of this
Pretty low IMHO so you can go OT and have a pop at me now as well 🙄

no difficult personal issue

So this is up there with the big “personal issues” then? an hour?

I think your a bit of a drama queen personally.

but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted

You sure she doesn’t have a point? Making false harassment claims could get you sacked ultra-quick with no recourse to a tribunal.

My team (with the exception of 1) work flexibly and I appreciate that. When they need a bit of “flexi” time (even though we dont do it as a company) as the head of a department I give it to them.

But his company DO have flexitime in place. So if its official why is he being treated differently than anyone else?

I can see where he’s coming from, I have moments like this. Like putting in 15 hours unpaid overtime over a fortnight and then being told the following Monday you “Owe” them 15 minutes because you were late this morning after dropping the kids off!

So if its official why is he being treated differently than anyone else?

OK so how is flexi time measured? is it some informal mental record or does the OP clock/sign in etc. If its formal there must be a record somewhere surely?

Unfortunately, having worked in a similar environment ‘being more flexible’ will end in the urine being extracted.

Get your head together, get your CV together, find something else.
Often these attitudes are corporate as much as one individuals, and no one should have to stick it, but the UK being what it is you’ll be in a better place quicker if you attack it yourself. You’ll feel better about yourself too, guaranteed.

I don’t think anyone needs to be told when they are working somewhere good, or at least fair, you just know. And then you don’t mind pithing whenever it’s needed.

It is a couple of hours, get over it. Sounds like you are being late, asking for flex working outside mot companies normal core hours and now asking for compassionate leave. You sound like a pita to manage so no wonder your relationship with your manager isn’t great. If you really don’t like it and think you can do better some where else vote with your feet and get another job…..

@gonzy – firstly I hope everything’s OK with your old man.

Secondly – I think you’re in the same position as me (university as well) we have a flexible working policy but it isn’t enacted in my dept. If i work earlier or later i get no credit for it, even just in banked up good-will. I set off at 6am for a meeting the other week then wasn’t allowed to leave at 16:50 the next day.
Clashes with boss are common etc. and unfortunately the general chatter amongst friends and colleagues in other uni’s is that good HR is like gold-dust across the sector.
You’ve made a good first step in looking for another job

Whilst I do understand that there are many factors to your OP. I do have to say that considering, and reluctantly or not, they have been a bit flexible with your hours,which is a significant benefit that for many is simply not possible. As your Manager / Boss the claiming the 2 hours thing would have pissed me off too.

EDIT: Being flexible has to work BOTH ways.

i started working at my current place 5 years ago…initially things started off well but got worse as my line manager turned out to be a monster who would bully and harrass me constantly…it eventually got to the point where HR got involved and decided that i should no longer work in that role…they couldnt sack me so they offered me another role for a different team within the same division

So there was an issue in your old role, and now in your new role too.

while she was off the first time i was given great support by the director and my line manager and was always encouraged to develop myself professionally by taking any courses etc…but since her return this seems to have dried out whilst its still available for other staff members…she seems reluctant to put me on any training courses

They’ve invested heavily into you…

she has instructed my line manager that any work that i am asked to do has to go through my manager and not come to me direct…all of a sudden my work has to be monitored but previously it has been fine…now it seems i get given all the crappy jobs..up to the point where other staff members are asked to do things that i should be doing as in its in my job description and my role is defined by this work…

And are still not happy with the quality of your work…

my line manager suffered a stroke 2 months ago and will be off for some time so she is now managing me and is being even stricter with what work i am given

The department is hit by serious illness…

i made a request for flexible working and she reluctantly agreed…

And you ask for flexible hours!

but the thing that really pissed me off was that a few weeks ago we had an event at work, the normal practice is that everyone mucks in and as the event finishes quite late…any extra hours done can then be claimed back as toil…i had 2 hours owing to me so i put the request in to her to claim them

And then for overtime for two hours!

To be honest, I’d have been a lot harder on you than she has.

Sometimes you need to look at yourself before thinking the whole worlds against you.

I can see where he’s coming from, I have moments like this. Like putting in 15 hours unpaid overtime over a fortnight and then being told the following Monday you “Owe” them 15 minutes because you were late this morning after dropping the kids off!

I had an a instance like this in my current employment. I replied with “are we working to the clocks now then?”
Boss (director) immediately choked and started going on about how great it was how flexible we all are. He knows full well how **** he’d be if I clocked on/off. I learned quickly that you need to stick up for yourself in civilian employment.

EDIT: I think wreckers neat phrase has it about standing up to employers

Employers will take the piss if they can get away with it and flexibility is one direction – try and get paid for not working if you think this is not the case or start coming in late and leaving early if you want to see what they think of “flexibility” and your contractual terms
Original post

but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted
You sure she doesn’t have a point? Making false harassment claims could get you sacked ultra-quick with no recourse to a tribunal.

you do realise that partially quoting someone allows you to distort what they said?

no but i could make a racial harassment claim if i really wanted…but i wont as i dont think her treatment is based on race

It was a response ato jokey sexual harassment point which surely you realised

It is a couple of hours, get over it.

Given to everyone but you

Perhaps he should take a three hour lunch and use that reply to the employer…it would be ok to do this ?

Being flexible has to work BOTH ways.

So they will also pay him for not working?
The hours he has worked have changed in terms of start and end not the total. The contract has not been changed and everyone else got it except the poster.
Flexibility is good from both parties but the contract exist for a reason and they are inflexible about paying you for not working so why should you [ and in this case only this employee as all the others got paid] get paid less?

As your Manager / Boss the claiming the 2 hours thing would have pissed me off too.

What adhering to the contract would piss you off as a boss…best rewrite the contract as I would refuse to do overtime [any work in fact] if you did not pay me

Al you lot saying this would it be taking the piss to take a three hour lunch break and still get paid ?Would you accuse the employer of inflexibility if they objected and suggest they were the ones with the problem ?

Sometimes you need to look at yourself

Indeed YOU do

So there was an issue in your old role, and now in your new role too.

Yup. As you’ll have read, HR agreed there was a problem in the first instance and moved him. He doesn’t feel comfortable involving HR now as his current manager has influence there.

They’ve invested heavily into you…

Yup. As you’ll have read, this investment stopped when his current manager returned to work, but continued for his colleagues.

And are still not happy with the quality of your work…

Yup. As you’ll have read, they were happy with it until his current manager returned to work.

The department is hit by serious illness…

Yup. As you’ll have read, the response of his manager to this is to further restrict the scope of his position.

And you ask for flexible hours!

Yup. As you’ll have read, the OP is also flexible in offering later hours and working lunches.

And then for overtime for two hours!

Yup. As you’ll have read, the OP is allowed to claim this as TOIL, in exactly the same way as his colleagues. Only their claim has been approved by the manager and his hasn’t.

To be honest, I’d have been a lot harder on you than she has.

Yup. If you’re as one eyed as your post suggests, it doesn’t surprise me at all that you’d completely ignore a whole raft of information and act entirely on your own agenda.

To be honest, I’d have been a lot harder on you than she has.

If you have actually read what’s been written, all it says to me is that you’re not cut out for managerial work.

1. HR will move people to avoid potential situations – easier than confronting. OP probably need to front up to the fact he’s being managed out.
2. Continuing to train the others – perhaps they were getting returns there and they were performing
3. Current manager has higher standards?
4. Man down, I would expect more from everyone
5. Hours flex to a point, departmental cover is important – perhaps him rolling in at 10 (though he agreed to 9.45) doesn’t fit with operational requirements. Or sets unwanted precedents.
6. Claiming two hours overtime is petty in any position toward any kind of responsibility. I would not expect a manager to be paid or claim overtime. Shop floor/factory people fine. I’m presuming this isnt a Saturday job in a bike shop.
7. I’m just putting an employers point across, one eyed or not, it’s clear you’re not exactly in a position to be considering from this angle.