I’ve been waiting in this airport for nine hours now and I’m tired. It’s really hot in this animal suit.

Are we going or not?

TJ^^^ in fun sponge shocker. Narrow and strict legalistic views which suggest a degree of envy.
NHS SLTs undoubtedly ‘endure’ team building events – but maybe not in Milan – which are denied to ward staff but….get real.
Most people see these non-working events – and this one is clearly not work-based bonding – as a bit of a ‘thank you’ from the boss and treat them as as such; you know, give a little on both sides.
Those who attend will all find a way to get something out of the weekend.
As for the individual in question, by all means take a days leave on the Monday but it will be deducted from annual entitlement.
By their actions, the individual in question could cause the management to re-think/cancel any future events.
OP not being unreasonable.
Kelvin^^^ the individual has got a free weekend; isn’t that enough for them?

A free weekend? I’ve misunderstood then. I thought they were being asked to work all the days they normally work, which is fair enough… but if the company is spending money on all the other staff, and they won’t be in the office that Monday… cut the guy some slack and do something for him… might not be the day off, but doing something for them might go someway towards to making them feel part of the company as well. The morning off? A lie in?

Most people see these non-working events – and this one is clearly not work-based bonding – as a bit of a ‘thank you’ from the boss and treat them as as such; you know, give a little on both sides.

Including TJ.

Kelvin – there’s no I in team; employee in question either turns up on the Monday (but who will know) or takes a day’s leave.
Drac – discussion closed, no?

there’s no I in team

But there is a me

Frank conway – how do you work that out from what I have posted? Or just your ideological hatred of anything to the left of Gengis Khan getting in the way again?

I think the actual issue is the definition of the Team Building you’ve provided.  The rest of the team are not working together in an urban jungle environment, nor building introspective sales solutions.  They are being paid flights and hotels to go and see sites and get pissed over a nice lunch.

Now, said employee isn’t entitled to a day off no.  But, if they cant attend for personal reasons they are missing out on the reward that the rest of the team is being provided vis a vis you are alienating them and they are missing out on the reward.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest you’re investing time and money into the other members to enjoy themselves whilst this employee is unable to do so, and should be allowed a small token of their representative share.

Give them the day off and offer for them to expense a nice lunch with their SO whilst the rest of the team is doing the same in Milan.   Theyve saved you a hotel and air fare after all.

Jeez – when did everybody get so damn ungrateful and ungracious?

If I could go, I’d go. Even if I wasn’t keen on one or two of my fellow employees surely to goodness I can’t dislike them all? (and if I do, then maybe the problem is me, not them?) Go, have a look around, enjoy some culture, sleep in a hotel for a night or two – what’s not to love? And as a bonus maybe you get to think of a way to “better the company” or one of it’s processes.

If I couldn’t go – I’d turn up for work and, as mentioned above, enjoy a quiet day on my own in the office. Again, what’s not to love? And as a bonus maybe I’d spot something that could improve the way the company works when everyone is not around…..

The Boss sounds like a decent guy.

Note: I don’t blame the “lone remainer” for asking – if you don’t ask you don’t get, and the boss might have just said “yeah, why not” and that would have been that. I am suggesting though that if the answer was “It doesn’t really work like that” then the lone-remainer should have said “OK Boss, no worries” and enjoyed the day on his own with his feet up pretending to be the big cheese.

Everyone could have scored here, and that’s really the aim in Life isn’t it?

Happy Days 🙂

Everyone could have scored here

With Tracey from accounts?

Fandango in Milan.

Whether it’s enjoyable or not, a team event is a team event – work. The guy misses his work, why should he be rewarded with a day off?

Whether it’s enjoyable or not, a team event is a team event – work. The guy misses his work, why should he be rewarded with a day off?

Its not “work” though is it, its a piss up / sight seeing in Milan under the guise of “Team Building”.    We shouldn’t he have a boozy lunch on the company as well?

And like I said, he’s saved the company a couple of hundred pounds by default of his circumstances, just offer him a paid lunch and some down time, just like his colleagues are getting.

Or just your ideological hatred of anything to the left of Gengis Khan getting in the way again?

Genghis frequently organised foreign mini-breaks for his team. Don’t think he ever made it as far as Milan, but I recall some rowdy behaviour in cities right across Asia. Work hard, party hard.

Lol @ Martin

What time is the return flight?

I don’t want to miss it due to overindulgence. Me, Perchy and Martin from IT are a bit tipsy already

What happens in Milan, stays in Milan…..

Its not “work” though is it, its a piss up / sight seeing in Milan under the guise of “Team Building”.

Maybe it’s team building under the guise of a nice trip? No rule that says work can’t be fun !!

Split the difference and offer it as unpaid leave?

Is it normal to get paid your hourly rate on team building days? I’ve never been on one.

Is it normal to get paid your hourly rate on team building days? I’ve never been on one.

IME it’s not normal to have them outside of work days. When we have them of an evening, karting etc, pub, its unpaid.

Is it normal to get paid your hourly rate on team building days?

For IR35 purposes I’d question whether hourly-paid employees qualify for teanbuilding-type activities?

I think people need to stop seeing it as ‘team building’ (I accept I said that in the title but it is clouding the picture). It is a social event which, by definition of getting the team together without the distraction of work, helps build team morale. We are doing it before Christmas and I guess that in a previous life it could be called a Christmas party however, as I have mentioned, our younger workforce don’t go for the partying and much prefer a relaxed social event (we have asked and this is universally the case. In the past we have had overnight trips to the Lakes (with walking, team cooking evenings and boating etc) and overnight theatre trips to London but the last two years we have pushed the boat out a bit more to do something more memorable. All our team are happy to do this as an unpaid event as they enjoy it (would you pay people overtime for going to a Christmas Party at the local Best Western)? If people started to ask for overtime or paid leave in lieu (disregarding this one occurrence of the request due to different circumstances) then we would stop doing such events and revert to a more conventional Christmas evening out. Fortunately our team accept that we are genuinely trying to be nice to them and always show genuine gratitude that we do it for them.

It is a social event which, by definition of getting the team together without the distraction of work, helps build team morale.

In which case, if one of your team can’t make it on the jolly due to young children, other family commitments, fear of flying, whatever, then it seems a bit harsh to make him/her work when the rest of the team is clearly not working (unless they are taking the Monday as part of their holiday entitlement).

Unless the underlying aim is to penalise them for not being able to join you. I can’t imagine the cost of the temp to answer the phones is more than the cost of the travel package for that one person.

In which case, if one of your team can’t make it on the jolly due to young children, other family commitments, fear of flying, whatever, then it seems a bit harsh to make him/her work when the rest of the team is clearly not working (unless they are taking the Monday as part of their holiday entitlement).

Thats my view.   It feels like “hard luck chump, get to work” rather than “I’m really sorry you can’t experience our trip but in recognition of your contribution to the team and everyones else enjoyment, please go and have nice lunch on us”.

I’ve never gone on one of these types of work trips and come back thinking better of my colleagues. Normally I find I genuinely can’t stand 50% of them and the other 50% are just really boring.

In the interests of team morale I avoid these things like the plague now.

It is a social event

In which case, I’ve changed my mind also. Give them the day off, spin it as “the office is closed on Monday” maybe, but make it clear that this is an exception rather than setting a precedence and the same may not apply next year.

young children, other family commitments, fear of flying, whatever

The reasons are complicated and I would rather not go into them, but it’s none of the above and they attended last year.

If it’s a social event then matey should get Monday off the same as the rest of the team.

Normally I find I genuinely can’t stand 50% of them and the other 50% are just really boring.

Aother IT nerd yeah ?

It is a social event which, by definition of getting the team together without the distraction of work, helps build team morale.

Well I’m in the wife will moan but let’s bring it on but can I be in party group not the museum group please.

It would be nice to offer something to the person who can’t make it though.

The reasons are complicated and I would rather not go into them, but it’s none of the above and they attended last year.

ah – so it’s your view of their reasons that mean they don’t get a day off work alongside everyone else (who’s not missing out on the reward trip)?

Kryton57

Now, said employee isn’t entitled to a day off no. But, if they cant attend for personal reasons they are missing out on the reward that the rest of the team is being provided vis a vis you are alienating them and they are missing out on the reward.

It’s amazing how many people can’t understand this simple point.

The reasons are complicated and I would rather not go into them, but it’s none of the above

I think ‘whatever’ probably covers most angles. 🙂 Does the employee need a valid reason not to go on what is effectively a three day Christmas party? I can understand the distinction when it was being presented as a teambuilding exercise, ie work-related, but basically you’re giving everyone in the office except him/her the day off on Monday.

but basically you’re giving everyone in the office except him/her the day off on Monday.

We are not – they are all available for work during the day (with the exception of when we are flying). For the employee staying back, they are simply being asked to be available to answer phones and triage support tickets which we have said they can also do from home if they prefer.

Fortunately our team accept that we are genuinely trying to be nice to them

You’re not being very nice to “can’t go/won’t go” guy. 😆

You’re not being very nice to “can’t go/won’t go” guy.

He’s not.  And there probably a “bullying” or “discrimination” HR case right there. The employee is effectively being discriminated based on his/her personal circumstances outside of work hours.  As the Milan trip encompasses working hours it is therefore by extension under HR remit and working practise / employee guidelines.

OP should be fired IMO 😉

The employee is effectively being discriminated based on his/her personal circumstances outside of work hours.

They are not being discriminated against – we are asking them to be available for work just as the rest of the team are on the Monday.

It is a social event which, by definition of getting the team together without the distraction of work, helps build team morale.

Now we are getting somewhere.
Its not ‘work’ its a jolly. Its being called a “Team Building” event to, lets be honest, have the company pay (no problems, good on you for looking after your staff) and with ‘creative accounting’ write it off for tax reasons (unless I misunderstood this bit? I also think there might be word for this starting with F?)
While you haven’t said why they’ve said they cant go,you have said they cant instead of wont so they are missing out on this social event that the company are paying for, perhaps, for reasons beyond their control?
So the Monday is part of this jolly (not work) yet the staff going aren’t expected to use a days leave for travel back? So why should the individual in question.
If I’m correct about those tax purposes I spoke about above, then this weekend is work. Then those going are working the whole weekend and their Monday working day is travelling for company business. This is where the TOIL or O/T issues crop up…

Opinions on a forum don’t matter. It needs to be company policy. So write it, stick it in there and be done!
You know, once, I worked for a place where the team would’ve all happily gone away for a weekend team building/jolly together, cos we all liked each other. Except the boss. We hated the boss.

I’m off for a ride – obviously I’m available for work the entire time, except when I’m out of mobile range. 🙂