Are you REALLY aware of your responsibilities as an employer?

Hope you have good insurance………!!! LOL

To me its obvious, jolly to say thank you to the team, no extra tax will be paid by anyone, creative accounting will write it all of. I bet everyone is gagging to go, I would and like perchy I have a costume (elephant). Maybe the non attendee genuinely can’t go and is gutted, so just give the poor sod the day of. Just make sure everyone takes loads of photos of everyone having a brill time and taunt them with them for the next couple of weeks.

Can we all come with you?

Grant them the extra day off, but with the stipulation that every waking moment of the day off must be spent with all of their colleagues, as this is what the rest of the team is getting.

I’d go in and use the day to subtly plant stuff in people’s desks to make it look like one or other of you is a thief to create discord and unpick all the good work from the team building weekend.

It’s a normal working day.  Technically there’s probably justification for giving those who did attend time off in lieu.  Just to piss off the one left out!

@swedishmetal- Tell me, have you read any of the responses on this thread?

I can absolutely see both sides.

I think they’re being a bit cheeky asking for the day off – everyone else is doing company related activities.

That said I can see why they’d be a bit narked if for personal reasons (duties or prior engagements rather than hating Brian from accounts, I assume) they can’t make what sounds like a nice weekend away and they feel they’re not getting rewarded like everyone else.

So I think you’re absolutely within your rights to just tell them to be in, but if you decide to let them have Monday off, make it absolutely clear it’s a reward in lieu of the weekend away not any sort of entitlement. It will make them happier, just like the weekend away will make everyone else happier.

The ones travelling are entitled to time off in lieu (or over-time) if they do not normally work weekends.

Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?

There is a theory about AI… Known as rampancy. Just sayin’…

There’s a real difference of opinion with regards to the actual weekend. Some think the idea of spending a straight 12 days with work colleagues an exciting and rewarding experience….. Personally I’d do everything to avoid such. Don’t mind seeing them during, you know, work but in my time off?? I’d regard that as punishment.

I don’t work in sales or IT…..

Wow, some of you really are amazingly skilled at making something that’s designed to be a bit of fun into something sinister or abject torture…

If your own boss had said ‘right, I’m having a party at my villa on the Rivera this weekend, all expenses paid, I’d like you all there/who wants to come?’ How many of you would start talking about BIK or travel insurance?

Motives could well be the same, just without ‘team building’ mentioned

How many of you would start talking about BIK or travel insurance?

I wouldn’t. I would say no thanks though.

It’s not a party though is it? A party is something entirely different. Can I bring the wife or my bike? No, you’re with Nigel, from accounts, or Brenda from sales. Or worse, somebody has to spend the weekend with me, and I’m truly awful company. Indeed if you took me away to Milan for the weekend, you’d not see me again until the airport on Monday, where I’d be very, very hungover. I’d be exploring for a solid 48 hours, not having forced fun with Brenda or Nigel

There’s an obvious answer

Let him have Monday off like he wants

Then let everyone else knock off early Tuesday because they had ‘worked the weekend’

His face should be a picture!

(And next year, make attendance compulsory without good excuse)

Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?

You can’t just make people work more hours. Of course this is not work and absolutely a holiday but for the tax reasons it’s a team building day.

You can’t just make people work more hours.

Well as far as if they want to stay employed with a particular company you can. If you are salaried and your T&Cs does not allow for overtime and there is a clause in there about working additional hours when required. Happens to a lot of people.

They sound like a dick. Not for rejecting the pointless cringey timewasting nonsense that is teambuilding. I full respect them for having the nads to essentially say FU to that as most fold, moan to each other & endure it. But to miss the opportunity to be in the office alone for the day? sounds like bliss.

Of course this is not work and absolutely a holiday but for the tax reasons it’s a team building day.

Teambuilding events can be fun y’know.

I know it’s a bit of a grey area but if it were a true benefit in kind the employees would just be sent to Milan with a partner.

Im amazed no-ones mentioned the carbon footprint / environmental impact of flying many people to central Europe for something that could be done within 30 mins drive what with this being the most virtuous forum in existence.

I shall report this wanton pollution to Greta Thunburg and watch her online army crush this company into oblivion with a tsunami of social media hate…

Though I can be silenced for a pair of Italian hand stitched loafers

@swedishmetal

Hang on, hang on. Who mentioned pub crawls? Who mentioned a man? Who mentioned getting drunk? And bet all the guesses you want. Last year we went to Berlin – nobody got drunk, we saw the sights, we went to the Holocaust Memorial and Brandenburg Gate, had nice food and saw Checkpoint Charlie.

Don’t judge others by your own standards matey boy.

Wow, some of you really are amazingly skilled at making something that’s designed to be a bit of fun into something sinister or abject torture…

I’m glad you’re not my boss.

Well as far as if they want to stay employed with a particular company you can. If you are salaried and your T&Cs does not allow for overtime and there is a clause in there about working additional hours when required. Happens to a lot of people.

We want you to give up your weekend to go away to Milan to visit some sites and have some food.

Am I getting paid for this or getting time in lieu?

No but we’ll call team building

No, thanks I’d rather have the weekend off with my family.

Can’t see how you can fire anyone for that

Are they? Depends on their contract T&Cs does it not?

Nope – if it is considered work ( and as I said under the circumstances I think not) then not only are the entitled to TOIL but also compensatory rest as they would have been “at work” 80 hours straight

Working time directive

and those people with contracts that say ” additional hours as required” still have rights under WTD. Many folk have Stockholm syndome 😉 and do not take up their rights but these are legally enforceable and cannot be opted or contracted out of.

Trip via airport with boss and colleagues you say?

I hear these are good fun.

https://www.gradko.com/forensics/products/detector-dog-training-aids/

Also, don’t actually do what you might be thinking.

johndoh

Member

@swedishmetal

Hang on, hang on. Who mentioned pub crawls? Who mentioned a man? Who mentioned getting drunk? And bet all the guesses you want. Last year we went to Berlin – nobody got drunk, we saw the sights, we went to the Holocaust Memorial and Brandenburg Gate, had nice food and saw Checkpoint Charlie.

Don’t judge others by your own standards matey boy.

You mean you are enforcing sobriety on this weekend? ffs this is getting worse by the minute. 😆

You can either give them the day off they asked for, or refuse in which case you’re likely to revive a 1-2 day sickness absence later in the year as payback.

Personally I’d give them them the day off and avoid creating a problem for later.

You mean you are enforcing sobriety on this weekend? ffs this is getting worse by the minute.

+1

needs moar coke and hookers – and cowbell.

Defo a case for cruel and unusual punishment here. 😆

Well, some of the responses on here are as expected and quite frankly are unbelievable.

The OP is taking his staff for what seems a very generous short break to Milan and yet it seems this is bad and staff should be given TOIL as it’s over the weekend when they shouldn’t be working? WFT? Really?

It’s not a holiday OP says it’s a team building event.

Team building as in spending time together without having our heads in our laptops. We aren’t doing anything silly like raft making as I mentioned at the beginning. I’d say it’s more of an extended Christmas Party but, as we employ lots of younger people that don’t drink to excess, these events are much more relaxed. It has never been compulsory and it has always been well received. This particular request caught us by surprise and if I thought anyone viewed such a weekend as a chore then I’d stop doing it and take the extra profit from the business for myself…

Do you have good insurance? Anything could happen………. LOL

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49662134

It’s not a holiday OP says it’s a team building event.

Team building, team bonding or cheeky short break – call it what you will. But ultimately it’s a very generous gesture but for some, it seems, it’s not enough.

as we employ lots of younger people that don’t drink to excess, these events are much more relaxed

**** young people these days.

I’d be firing them all and replacing them with people who have hung on to the floor at least once – you can’t trust them otherwise.

Is this self-entitled behaviour a one-off from this employee, or a pattern?

The idea that it’s a holiday is complete bullshit.

As an example, my employer pays for something similar. The very first year I did it, I ended up chatting to someone from a completely different department who I never normally saw about AWS bills. Between us we realised that a tiny code change I’d been trying to get through some QA process would save us a gigantic amount of money. In the end just that one saving was enough to pay for everyone who went on the trip from my office (about 20 people at the time).

If they won’t have anything useful to say or contribute at this event of yours, I would suggest they are not contributing much the rest of the time either.

The trip sounds very generous, and a great idea, and will benefit both staff and the company, I’m sure. If just one employee can’t go… it might be nice for them to feel they’re getting something as well… you don’t owe them anything, but if you’re treating all the other staff it seems odd not to do something for the one missing out.

If one person gets a holiday instead, then pretty soon everyone will decide they want a holiday instead.

It’s a weekend jaunt then indeed very generous but one person can’t make it. Maybe they don’t need the day off but maybe something like a vouchers for a spa day so they feel valued too might be an idea.

Young people who don’t drink in excess? How rare.