Am I being unreasonable? Employee wanting holiday in lieu of teambuilding event

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  • Am I being unreasonable? Employee wanting holiday in lieu of teambuilding event
  • Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    If it is not compulsory then its not work as I see it. So no toil etc. Its a jolly the boss is paying for. I would not like to try to argue that is was work as defined in law if they do not have to go.

    You said it was “team building” before, isn’t that work (optional or otherwise)?
    So now they’re not working (but they’re ‘on call’), the company is paying travel and other expenses… WTF are you lot actually doing in Milan?
    I’d like to see you argue it’s not a BIK or additional remuneration for you and your team (apart from one poor sod)…

    tjagain
    Member

    If its not compulsory then its not work. Its as simple as that IMO

    A team building event that you have to attend – then yes its work with all the legal requirements that entails. If you can choose not to go then its simply a jolly organised and paid for by the boss. Same as a works night out.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Is the individual habitually awkward or is it a one-off?

    Do you suspect they just didn’t wnana go? (which is totally fine, obvs)

    Anyway, good compromise you’ve reached I think.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    paid for by the boss

    What personally out of his/her pocket?

    Premier Icon chrismac
    Subscriber

    Assuming Saturday and Sunday are non working days then those not going should be in work Monday. If anything those going should get paid or time off in lieu for working on non working days. 2 days team building is definitely working

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    If its not compulsory then its not work. Its as simple as that IMO

    If it’s team building it’s work related. Unless this just all a ploy for a bender in Milan?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    ignoring the contractual bits.

    if you are prepared to fund the trip, and write off how ever many man days for the travel back on the monday, then what is the impact of giving the non-attendee the the monday off? financially **** all, but in terms of long term motivation of that staff member it’ll cost you way more than than giving them a day off will.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Take it you have a lone worker policy if billy no mates is at work alone on the Monday

    scuttler
    Member

    <stares longingly>

    I miss the paid for ski trips and me plus one holidays to Hawaii and Jamaica.

    </stares longingly>

    Sounds awful – big bunch of spineless suckups going to Milan with the boss on a pointless weekend. I’m with the one who has the nerve to say no to this “yes boss, sure thing, whatever you say!” tosh. However, they also need a good long look at themselves – the whole office is away….. that’s a day off in itself.

    tjagain
    Member

    Drac – its just a jolly unless its compulsory attendance. Its not work if you don’t have to go

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    So from a legal and financial perspective the company has sent several people on a mini-break (incidentally will they be covered by the company’s insurance policy for this trip?), How much roughly per head is a weekend away in Milan? got to be at least £500ish right with flights and hotel?
    Sort of starts to feels like a bonus/additional remuneration. But of course one, apparently awkward, person can’t attend for personal reasons. I assume that individual contributed to whatever performance earned the rest of their team this little jolly?
    And the majority of the team are not in work on the Monday because they’re on a free holiday paid for by the company… Will you all be claiming leave or calling that Monday “travelling for work”?

    I don’t know, all of a sudden that extra day off doesn’t sound quite such an unreasonable request TBH…

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    Aye next time, just add the 500 quid to every ones pay packet. Job jobbed, team built! 😆

    Premier Icon weeksy
    Subscriber

    Poor bloke was trying to do something nice for his workers and somehow he’s now the big bad boss dragging them away from an hour’s swimming lesson for his kid followed by sitting drinking cans of cheap bitter arguing on the internet about whether a winter bike is just for winter or whether soul and funk are different things.

    Miserable sods

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Drac – its just a jolly unless its compulsory attendance. Its not work if you don’t have to go

    Then the staff need to pay BIK and Johndoh can’t claim the tax back as apparently it’s not work related.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Bloody hell. Alternatively the boss could sack off the whole idea, take himself and a few friends away instead, and roll in when he bloody feels like it on Monday.
    Edit: weeksy+1!

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Poor bloke was trying to do something nice for his workers and somehow he’s now the big bad boss dragging them away from an hour’s swimming lesson for his kid followed by sitting drinking cans of cheap bitter arguing on the internet about whether a winter bike is just for winter or whether soul and funk are different things.

    He still can.

    ElShalimo
    Member

    What about travel insurance?

    brakes
    Member

    are you all accountants or auditors?

    can I come to Milan? you won’t have to pay me a salary and I’m not bothered whether I’m insured / taxed or MOT’ed.

    can I come to Milan? you won’t have to pay me a salary and I’m not bothered whether I’m insured / taxed or MOT’ed.

    As long as you can provide at least 10 positive suggestions for the future of the company, and a willingness to dress up in an animal suit, I don’t see why that would be a problem.

    As long as you can provide at least 10 positive suggestions for the future of the company, and a willingness to dress up in an animal suit, I don’t see why that would be a problem.

    I’m in.

    I have my own outfit.

    Premier Icon kneebiscuit
    Subscriber

    ….and this is why we cant have nice things anymore. OP, you sound like a mint boss-wish my employer would take me on a trip to Milan

    ElShalimo
    Member

    It’ll end up like this:

    tjagain
    Member

    Well you know me as a boss baiter and I do not think he is doing owt wrong – even said it would be declared as a BIK for tax. An extra bone to the non attendee would be generous but whats offered is not a bad second best

    I have no issue with what I have read that Johndoh has intended.

    By the sounds of it, don’t take the boring suck ups as paid sad mates – give the ballsy person a paid day off and a mini promotion, take perchypanther instead as that would be a ball. Job done.

    nealglover
    Member

    If its not compulsory then its not work. Its as simple as that IMO

    Thanks, I will remember that and not pay anyone next time I ask for volunteers to do some weekend overtime 👍

    “Sorry, TJ said it’s not work because it wasn’t compulsory, take it up with him”

    Well you know me as a boss baiter

    You’re a master at it.

    ElShalimo
    Member

    Perchy is not a real person, it’s an AI comedy-bot.

    Rumour has it that it is a B&Q website help-bot gone rogue after too much machine learning

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Perchy is not a real person, it’s an AI comedy-bot.

    Here I am, brain the size of a planet….

    TiRed
    Member

    Whatever you do, be sure to visit the Alfa Romeo museum. Even non-petrolheads like my wife loved it.

    And it’s work. Otherwise it’s a benefit in kind. The ones travelling are entitled to time off in lieu (or over-time) if they do not normally work weekends. When I travel of a weekend for business, I claim the time as work – OK seven hours sat in business class isn’t exaclt hard, but I normally am working – even on the Sunday corporate bus to PHL.

    You aren’t being unreasonable. If the person can’t attend for personal reasons, but would have liked to (caring for a relative for example), then I’d be nice to them and bring them back something meaningful. If they like Alfa’s – even better!

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    Rumour has it that it is a B&Q website help-bot gone rogue after too much machine learning

    PurchasePlanter

    You aren’t being unreasonable. If the person can’t attend for personal reasons, but would have liked to (caring for a relative for example), then I’d be nice to them and bring them back something meaningful. If they like Alfa’s – even better!

    Any kind of Alfa memorabilia would lead to an almost instantaneous breakdown in your working relationship.

    PurchasePlanter

    Hi! It looks like you’re trying to buy Paint for your Porch….Would you like to me to bollocks it up for you?

    freeagent
    Member

    I work away from home a fair bit, and would not be particularly interested in a ‘team building’ event over a weekend anywhere, i’d rather spend it with my wife and kids.
    If i did go, i’d view it as work and would expect TOIL for the days i worked over the weekend.
    As for the guy who isn’t going – its a normal working day for him, as the others are travelling in working hours.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Subscriber

    ….and this is why we cant have nice things anymore. OP, you sound like a mint boss-wish my employer would take me on a trip to Milan

    This. Cheeses cripes! 😐

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    PurchasePlanter

    PaintyPunter

    As for Milan, sounds like my last work trip. An EU funded ‘cultural and learning exchange’ combined with ‘transnational meeting’ for 6 days in Florence with a group of teachers.

    TeamScotland has me sworn to secrecy and no online pictures of the ‘team debrief’ each evening – done with Aperol Spritzers, TeamSlovakia has a hotel with roof terrace which they used to watch sunset and sunrise with a home made made bar… We won’t divulge anything about TeamSpain, far too Catholic.

    ElShalimo
    Member

    Given the recent revelation, I think it’s more PorchyPainter than PerchyPanther

    Tallpaul
    Member

    Asking the employee to work the Monday is not unreasonable.

    Asking your team to give up their weekend to visit a hell-hole like Milan probably is though 🙂

    As for the BIK comments, I’d assume the company is making a voluntary settlement on the employees behalf as I doubt the annual £150 exemption is going to cover it!

    If the rest of the “team” aren’t working on the Monday why should this bloke? If the rest of the team aren’t doing any productive work which aligns with their job role why should he?
    I don’t understand the need to stay at office and answer phones, if he went on the jolly who would answer them then?

    I can’t think of anything worse than a weekend away watching my work colleagues get drunk 24hrs a day, sounds like misery. And I bet they won’t be doing anything worth travelling all that way for eg museums, countryside stuff, historical buildings etc.

    I’d rather spend the time with my family and friends, and I get on with my colleagues really well. I don’t understand this need to have work nights out all the time. If you can build a team without needing to go out on pub crawls you need to take a long hard look at yourself/company.

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