[Closed] Alonso and ferrari

Shamelessly stolen but even if Hamilton did not plan the outcome he should claim he did just to wind Alonso up a little further

Alonso :-
[i]“It seems it was very difficult to watch a replay – it must take many laps,” he sarcastically railed in an interview with Spanish sports newspaper AS. “It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race."[/i]

He didnt say this after his team mate deliberately crashed his Renault & Alonso won the Singapore GP did he.

By the way I'm not or at least I wasnt anti Alonso but he does appear to be whining a load more than previously

Clearly things weren't very well managed by the FIA but it's no different to when Schumacher won a race for Ferrari while serving a stop/go penalty in the pits on his last lap.

From Wiki:

1998 British Grand Prix: Two laps from the finish, Ferrari driver Michael Schumacher was issued with a ten-second penalty, meaning he had to drive through the pit lane obeying the speed limit, stop at the penalty box (not the team's pit box), and remain stationary for ten seconds before leaving the pits and continuing with the race. On the final lap of the race, Schumacher came in to serve the penalty and in doing so crossed the finish line (which extends across the pit lane) before reaching his pit box and before Mika Häkkinen crossed the finish line on the race track

I do think it wasn't fair but Alonso is becoming a bit of a whiner and despite thinking he's brilliant as a driver, I'm getting a bit fed up of him as a person.

dont undeerstand or watch the [s]procession[/s] racing that is F1 but it reads like the plucky Brit cheated in order to get a better result where as that foreign guy obeyed the rules. Can you really not see why he is cross? Are you just laughing because a British cheat has benefited.
Shame that winning at all costs has become the norm in all sports and cheating is ok as long as you cheat and get away with it and only wrong when we are cheated afagainst - see the Lampard non goal if you are confused by "fairness"

I think everyone is also forgot that if lewis had been 1 metre in front of the line, rather than 1 metre behind, he wouldn't have even got the drive through. Possibly could have won too, that would have really, really peed them off!

A fair point junkyard but you do need to understand it in the context that whenever anything goes against Ferrari, they cry foul (double deck diffusers, f-duct for example) but will happily apply the same sorts of tricks themselves without complaint (sprung floors for example).

He didn't cheat at all, just missed the cut off point by about 1 metre. He hesitated because he was unsure what to do.
How does alonso think he was going to win when he got mugged by kobayashi in a far far weaker car?

look at the helicopter footage taken:

Junkyard did you watch the race? How can you say Hamilton cheated when he clearly hesitated and slowed down as not sure what to do. Leave the guy alone he is the most talented driver we have had in this country for as long as I can remember.

Alonso has got real issues and I would most probably have issues with someone who has been kicking my arse so consistently. The truth is Alonso is a nasty piece of work he certainly has talent but so has everyone else on the grid. Hamilton is an out and out racer and will rack up world titles for fun, Alonso is just an embarrassment for Ferrari who have a lot of pride and who would jump at the chance if they could get Hamilton.

TheFunkyMonkey - Member

He didn't cheat at all, just missed the cut off point by about 1 metre. He hesitated because he was unsure what to do.
How does alonso think he was going to win when he got mugged by kobayashi in a far far weaker car?

Yep, spot on.

The radio transmission where FA's engineer had to inform him that Hamilton hadn't lost any places was brilliant 😆 Could just sense his widdle boiling

The in car radio chatter between Alonso and his engineer was absiolute class. Alonso moans to his pit crew that Hamilton cheated. Hamilton is then given a penalty. Alonso then has another moan to his pits that Hamilton's punishment wasn't harsh enough as he didn't lose any places. Alonso's engineer tells him to stop worrying about Hamilton and get on with his race!

I didn't see Alonso moaning in China when the saftey car worked in his favour after he had to serve a penalty for jumping the start. Can't remember him moaning about safety cars in Monaco when he had to start from the pits and early saftey car let him catch up the field.

He is a petulant, big eyebrowed, moaning faced child and he does F1 and his own driving ability no favours when he rants like this.

Highclimber the helicopter footage was from TV cameras not from FIA in fact they only acted after Ferrari complained.

but it reads like the plucky Brit cheated in order to get a better result where as that foreign guy obeyed the rules

Hamilton didn't cheat & I don't think anyone thinks he did
If he wanted to he could have [should have] crossed the 2nd safety car line just in front of the medical car - meaning he could have scooted around for a free pit stop

He obviously still did go around for the pit stop but ended up with a penalty for his troubles - he really didn't do anything wrong after he passed the car - the FIA were just a bit slow in sorting it
In the past the FIA have certainly appeared to favour Ferrari so maybe they feel more agrieved these days?

Yeah, Hamilton was in the wrong but was punished to letter of the law, Alonso was just too slow to make anything of it.

Hamilton wasn't going to bow down to Alonsos when he was a rookie, he certainly isn't now!

ALONSO: "Sir, sir, there's a bottle on the track. Hamilton just throw it out of his car. I SAW HIM DO IT."

While Lewis is undoubtedly a very quick and talented driver I still think his tactical race-craft isn't up there with some other drivers (Button, Schu & Alonso for instance). I expect that had Alonso been in front he'd have been 100% aware of the tactical situation and would have ensured that he crossed the line before the safety car and that anyone following him didn't. I think Lewis just wasn't sure what the rules actually said about the safety car, hesitated and just got the wrong side of it. Next time he'll do it on purpose tho!

As for the delay in investigating the incident, I expect they were quite busy getting the track back into race condition when the incident actually happened, maybe weren't aware of it until Ferrari reported it and then seemed to review it and apply the penalty in reasonable time.

Junkyard did you watch the race?

dont undeerstand or watch the procession racing that is F1 but it reads like

Leave the guy alone he is the most talented driver we have had in this country

He left when he was rich to become a tax exile so born here but not resident here so you support him as one of “ours” if you wish

God I am bored at work today just ignore me I dont care

I expect that had Alonso been in front he'd have been 100% aware of the tactical situation and would have ensured that he crossed the line before the safety car and that anyone following him didn't. I think Lewis just wasn't sure what the rules actually said about the safety car, hesitated and just got the wrong side of it. Next time he'll do it on purpose tho!

that's the only way i can see that lewis could be deemed to have manipulated the situation. if he can think that fast, then kudos to him. it's not like Alonso is whiter than white; i think he's doing his credibility no favours. ferrari did get done over, but that's the way racing is sometimes.

delays with handing out penalties like that happen all the time - deal with it.

although how MSC avaioided a 5 sec speeding behind the safety car penalty i'll never know - if you saw his in lap, he was *caning* it in.

oh, and:

dont undeerstand or watch the procession racing that is F1

yawn. thanks for contributing then.

I think Lewis has actually shown much improved race craft this season, and even seemingly managing his tyres better than "smooth" Button.

Can't imagine how dominant he'd be if they hit the ground running with the car like in '07/'08 again...

Been expecting this

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84876

Much more to come no doubt.

This is why the overwhelming majority absolutely hate ferrari.
A mate of mine that i've know since I was 11 works for ferrari through shell. Since working there, he's turned into a self riteous nob. He's stopped talking to anyone who doesn't agree with him on anything ferrari loads of times.
Was a really nice guy before too, the ferrari mentality really does brain wash people.

Alonso (and Schumacher) could have done much better if they'd not bothered trying to take advantage of the safety car by taking a pit stop.

People don't seem to have realised that without the need for re-fueling this year, there's no where near as much advantage in stopping under a safety car, since unless your tyres are really bad there's no actual [i]need[/i] to stop. The problem of coming out in/behind the traffic makes the whole effort pointless in many cases.
You wouldn't lose that much time being out on older tyres in comparison to being stuck behind slow cars (see Kobyashi this weekend).

Of course, the whole problem (including the other issues this weekend like 9 drivers being penalised for speeding under the safety car after pitting) could be solved by just banning pit stops under safety cars. Simplz 🙂

Yeah, the rules on safety car haven't quite caught up with no refueling though it could be argued that you'd end up with a situation where a car has to pit (or the tyres will pop because they're worn out) where the driver would then be penalised which was the problem that we had previously.

The fact is that safety cars will always distort the result - just as it did in Alonso's favour this year after his jump start...

it could be argued that you'd end up with a situation where a car has to pit (or the tyres will pop because they're worn out)

That is highly unlikely at safety car speeds though, since tyre wear will be pretty minimal.

Yeah a fair point I guess though punctures would still be an issue (though could easily enough be excused since you can't easily fake one!)

True, punctures could be an issue, but at least no one could be accused of cheating - it would just be very bad luck for anyone affected in such a way, but that's racing.

Actually thinking again, you'd still have the same issue - when's it defined that the safety car is out - if Webber's crash had happened then anyone savvy near the pit entrance would be able to pit (knowing that a safety car would almost certainly be deployed but hadn't been yet)while another car who'd just passed the entrance wouldn't be able to which isn't fundamentally different to what would have happened with Hamilton/Alonso if Hamilton had been just a fraction further down the road. So it'd still distort results.

That's a fair point, and your right, it's almost impossible to remove some distortion of the results, but again that situation would just be down to luck (and probably fairly unlikely to occur in most cases if race control are careful, since they can generally tell pretty quick if a safety car is needed of not and the drivers and teams will know straight away via the electronic messaging systems).
However, not allowing safety car pit stops would undoubtedly make things simpler and fairer in the majority of cases, now there is no re-fueling.

Of course, the whole problem (including the other issues this weekend like 9 drivers being penalised for speeding under the safety car after pitting) could be solved by just banning pit stops under safety cars. Simplz

So if cars are involved in an accident they then cannot limp round the track then pit for repairs? 🙂

I agree *something* needs to be done though.

Damaged cars could pit no problem. They would rejoin at the back, just as they would if involved in any minor accident in the early laps of the race - tough luck!
What I think needs to be addressed is people deliberately trying to take advantage of a safety car situation, leading to all sorts of shenanigans as seen this weekend.

No pit stops?

Or get rid of the stupid rule that says they have to do a proportion of the race on a crap tyre?

If you can win the race by doing 70% of it on a hard tyre and 30% on a soft, but another team picks 2 medium sets and runs them for 50% of the time each then we'd have some interesting racing.

Or limit pit crew numbers, if a stop took a minute or two like they do in series where your only allowed 3 men and 1 air wrench, gravity fed fueling etc we'd see more disparity in tacitcs as teams might considder only changing the front or rears and run harder compounds etc.

Unfortunately we're reduced to a series where its 99% down to the car and the remainder is luck.

Unfortunately we're reduced to a series where its 99% down to the car and the remainder is luck.

Clearly not. If it was every race would finish as a procession of each team (eg Team A 1st, 2nd, Team B 3rd, 4th, Team C 5th, 6th and so on).

The car has always had a large influence in F1 and it's unlikely to ever change.

Unfortunately we're reduced to a series where its 99% down to the car and the remainder is luck.

Alonso is falling into the trap of letting his frustration come out. Which has, infamously, happened before and is just about his only weakness. I still think he will prevail over the course of the whole season.

Hamilton has always done his talking on the track though. What is going on with Alonso? Did he trip and fallover onto his head? Hes passing his talent-window and is obviously frustrated.

Should Massa crash for him to help him win a race?

Wasn't it calculated that everyone would be withing .something of a second of each other given identical cars?

Button: mid pack anonymity and no wins, new(ish) team, new car, world champion.

Hamilton: world champion, new car, mid pack anonymity

This year: Hammilton and Button are pretty even.

Did they/the rest fo the field really get that much better or worse over the winter breaks? IMO more needs to be done to make the cars the same but introduce more variables to the race.

No wings, no difusers, then we'd have some proper raceing.

I wonder if Alonso will blame Pixies next?

Got to love the way Hamilton has got into Alonso's head and really ****ed with it.
IMO Hamilton didn't have a clue what he was doing and lucked into the situation, then when the penalty was announced he got the hurry up from his engineer to put 2 fast laps in before having to take the penalty which kept him in front of Kobyashi and probably button as well. When he is on form he is a brilliant driver on raw talent but does not seem able to make the right decisions without being told what to do by his race engineer/team.

but does not seem able to make the right decisions without being told what to do by his race engineer/team.

Ferrari team principal Stefano
Domenicali says he would be
happy to clarify Formula 1's
testing rules in the wake of the
controversy over a filming day
his team used at Fiorano ahead
of the European Grand Prix.

Rival outfits were fuming that
Ferrari was able to put some
miles on its new exhaust blown
diffuser at its official test track
under the guise of a promotional
event.

Following calls for the
regulations to be clarified,
Domenicali has said he would
welcome such a move - but said
he was unhappy his opposition
had complained to the press
rather than speaking directly to
him.

"I think that a lot of people like
to speak,"
said Domenicali when
asked by AUTOSPORT about the
testing situation.

"If I have a
problem I use my mobile phone
and I call personally. This is my
style; I don't use you to say
something.

"But, I think that the filming day
was pretty clear. If the people
want to be more comfortable
then I know there are discussions
in order to tidy up the wording,
and I have no problem with that
100 per cent."

Domenicali is adamant that
Ferrari did nothing wrong in
taking footage of its car at
Fiorano – something that is
allowed under the testing
restriction regulations.

"A filming day is something
related to the fact that we
wanted to use our possible 100
km in order to produce filming
for the customers, our network,
our dealerships," he said.

"If you want to do some filming
then you have to pay and this is
what we were doing. And if
someone has a problem, they
can call me and I can explain."

😯

Agree wholeheartdly with dibbs. I am actually warming to Button however its obvious than one holds a precious and fierce raw talent and the other is gifted behind the wheel who now understands and thinks more.

Hamilton can go one of two ways- lets hope he matures his stunning talent rather than spend many years in the wilderness being bitter before he starts to learn.

I expect that had Alonso been in front he'd have been 100% aware of the tactical situation and would have ensured that he crossed the line before the safety car and that anyone following him didn't. I think Lewis just wasn't sure what the rules actually said about the safety car, hesitated and just got the wrong side of it.

+1
Ferrari got rinsed but that was just the way the chips fell on that occasion- you'd have to try pretty hard to read FIA manipulation into it. I actually quite like Alonso but he's made himself look a bit silly and petulant with this one.

Hora, i think hamilton has started to learn, I think if he didn't have such a bad car last year, he would of wondered aimlessly for years, but after the exerience he gained last year going from hero to zero, finishing last year strongly after working closely with the team, and no doubt his team mate, means that this year with button he will shine taking nothing fro granted and working well with button.

I think hamilton and button are by far the best team combo in the field, possibly the best line up ever that I can think of.
They're both level headed, easy going, world champions, extremely good drivers.
You've got hamiltons almost do or die approach, constantly pushing button.
Then there's button, very experienced, been there, done that. A real thinker this year too. Still on top form.
I have had a real dislike of button from when he very first started. All style and no substance. Took him over 100 races to win one.
Only won the title last year because he had by far the best car at season start.
This year however, he seems to have totally changed at mac. I really thought he would be totally outclasped by hamilton, but that's not been the case.
He's much more laid back, is not moaning and blaming everyone but himself when things don't go his way. He's really getting on with the job and leading the championship more or less with vettel and hamilton. I'm really impressed with him for the first time ever and think it's the first time in his career that he's properly earning his paycheque.

I think they're the perfect partnership for each other and hope it stays this way!

TheFunkyMonkey - pretty much what I thought/am starting to think as well.

There's definately friction at redbull, massa and alonso couldn't care less about oneanother and shumacher is starting to loose it too.

Ha ha Lewis twists the knife a little bit more

quoted off Planetf1

Asked if Alonso's comments were a case of sour grapes, Hamilton replied: "Yeah.

"I even saw him overtaken by a Sauber on the big screen (referring to Kamui Kobayashi's pass on Alonso on the penultimate lap).

"It's very unlike him to be overtaken by a Sauber so he must have been completely in another world. But I don't understand why I affected his race so much.

"Everyone has a right to their opinion, and he must be disappointed with his own result, but I didn't do anything to him."

"I even saw him overtaken by a Sauber on the big screen (referring to Kamui Kobayashi's pass on Alonso on the penultimate lap).

Jeeesus, what next? He makes a mobile call to his friends in Stevenage to get the beer on whilst going through an S-bend?

Only won the title last year because he had by far the best car at season start.

I like the fact Lewis was watching the big screen while driving he must have nearly pi**ed himself laughing.

There was a story about Fangio (I think) at Monaco who drove around a crash at Mirabo because he realised on the way into the hairpin that all the spectators were not watching him drive into the corner but at something around the corner so took precations before he knew what the problem was ... must be nice to be switched on enough to take in & process that much info.

a few years back Kimi Raikkonen at Spa - he stayed flat on the throttle though Eau Rouge & up Raidillon even though it was obvious that there was an unsighted incident at the top & smoke covering the circuit

He later claimed that that it was never a risk as any crash would be off the tarmac by the time he got there 😯

Clever man or loony?

I have a feeling that Raikkonen is actually the Finnish word for loony