Advice most definitely needed – OH has been threatened with Court action!!

Long story, hopefully kept short!

My OH (vet nurse) used to work at a vet practice 5 years ago for 12 months. As part of employee benefits, all medicines/surgery for family pets was at cost price. Nearing end of employment our cat broke its leg – one of the vets offered to do the surgeras ended to develop her orthopaedic skills, with us just paying the drugs cost. Obviously agreed. Following on our cat also had to have a course of antibiotics too.

Over 4yrs ago, following a strong personal disagreement between my OH and the practice manager, my OH was let go on the spot with 10mins notice to collect her things and given gardening leave for her notice period. Unfortunately this was prior to the usual monthly staff billing.

A month later we received an Invoice from a debt collection agency – a bill of £1000!!! The costs should have been £120, maximum. In this letter the costs were stated to be “estimated”.

My OH calculated all costs of drugs that we had agreed to pay prior to all the other hoohar and paid that in full to the collection agency pretty much straight away, alongside sending a letter to the collections agency (no copy now as so long ago) stating that she has paid the monies that she actually owed and now considers this case closed.

Anyway, the payment was accepted in that it went from our bank account and we didn’t hear anything from the vet clinic or debt collectors for about 4 years – until yesterday…

The practice manager called my OH’s current workplace yesterday leaving messages with various colleagues for her to call back urgently. My OH didn’t yesterday as she wanted to speak to people first regarding whether she should make direct contact. This morning however, the practice manager has called back and left a message WITH HER CURRENT BOSS (!!!!!) saying she owes money, hasn’t paid anything, is cheating the practice out of money and if my OH doesn’t pay in full by Friday, then her old employers will take her to court! What a message to walk in to work to find!!

My question is – what should we do?? Who do we contact for advice on things such as this??

My OH wants to get this resolved ASAP, but with the amount of harassment the practice manager has given my OH’s current place of work, we are completely against giving away any of our current personal information. Also due to upset from what happened 4yrs back, she doesn’t want to speak to the practice manager directly either. Especially following the message this morning.

I am at a loss at how we should move forward?

If she told them it was in full and final settlement and it was accepted (ie. banked) then she’s in the clear.

I’d contact a solicitor – you coudl probably get an initial consultation for ‘not much’

In the meantime you should phone the practice manager and queitly explain that you’re seekign legal advice and that any further attempts to contact her via her place of work will be considered harrasment and be reported to the police.

From a legal perspective (re the “debt”), you’re in a reactive stage at the moment, not much you can/need to do until they take further action (unless your OH wants to speak to them, but it’s perhaps not advisable given their previous conduct). Make the current employer aware of situation and try to get a record (phone notes will do) of any further calls to her work.

I’d speak to a litigation solicitor to help you get some peace of mind, and to make sure everything is in order in case you do need to act.

If she told them it was in full and final settlement and it was accepted (ie. banked) then she’s in the clear.

I’d contact a solicitor – you coudl probably get an initial consultation for ‘not much’

In the meantime you should phone the practice manager and queitly explain that you’re seekign legal advice and that any further attempts to contact her via her place of work will be considered harrasment and be reported to the police.

This
And sue …

Is there a statute of limitations, (time limit) in cases like this? 4 years seems like an awfully long time for action.

WTF. Dont take this the wrong way, but that does sound very odd and I wonder if there is more to it than your side of the story.

There has to be a trigger that has made the PM start demanding after all this time, esp. since a DCA was clearly engaged by them at the time.

FYI acceptance of payment is not waiver of right to claim – if you send a cheque for part of claimed amount stating that it is tendered in full and final settlement and they bank it, your F&F statement is irrelevant, they can still come for the rest. What you need is something in writing that they DCA accept the payment as settlement.

On face value, the PMs actions are now probably into harrassment territory and before dealing with the money issue I would be sending a businesslike but firm letter stating that you consider yourself harassed and that any further contact other than in writing to your home address and you will without warning be engaging a solicitor to get some kind of court order with costs against the PM etc.

And sue …

What are you planning on suing for?

If she told them it was in full and final settlement and it was accepted (ie. banked) then she’s in the clear.

Unfortunately this is very common but incorrect misconception

Pet pee in their shoes

😉

Ah well, I was nearly right on the harassment bit.

and I did suggest talking to someone who might have a clue what they were talking about.

Ask them to prove the debt

On face value, the PMs actions are now probably into harrassment territory

+1

Just chilling out with a mate of mine who is in his final year of Law at Oxford University….he agreed with this. There’s all sorts of potential legal issues issues this could throw up but he’s pretty hung over at the minute.

Although the OP’s initial post is a little disordered and hard to follow in places.

Good luck anyway.

Practice manager – female ?

Although the OP’s initial post is a little disordered and hard to follow in places.

gettinmg some sort of timeline with even rough dates of events and conversations would be worth doing if you do go and see a professional.

Name of the company the money originaly went to etc if you knwo if would be good too.

Send in the Talib to slice off some body parts … err … okay not being helpful here but this sounds like the vet practice intentionally forgets all payment received and is demanding more to hurt others.

[/quote]acceptance of payment is not waiver of right to claim – if you send a cheque for part of claimed amount stating that it is tendered in full and final settlement and they bank it, your F&F statement is irrelevant, they can still come for the rest. What you need is something in writing that they DCA accept the payment as settlement.

+1 this and DON’T GO TO A SOLICITOR. Go to the CAB first and go form there.

The solicitor’s first hour for free is just a lure to get you hooked, before they empty your wallet for god knows how long.

Again, CAB first and good luck.

OH was let go on the spot with 10mins

If this is correct, and it was over 12 months, then it is automatically an unfair dismissal. If that were the case and you had taken it somewhere within 3 months its pretty much certain she would have won hands down.

As part of employee benefits, all medicines/surgery for family pets was at cost price.

Anything in writing to that effect, or any evidence to support it? If so there is no question of them being able to then turn round and charge over the odds. (NB: Employees are entitled in law to receive full written terms and conditions of employment within 2 months of employment commencing, so if not, then whoops thats another one against the practice manager).

is cheating the practice out of money and if my OH doesn’t pay in full by Friday, then her old employers will take her to court

Read up on the Harrassment Act and then go and see a brief. Normally the first half hour consultation is free. Pre-prepare, take along all records and documents that you can and preferably a statement from the current employer as to what is happening at work. Alternatively, take a look at county court online. Thats where they’ll take her if they do go to court. From experience, if theres a valid dispute between the parties, the beak will normally just say go away and sort it out between yourselves. So as long as your OH behaves reasonably its unlikely, from what you say, that she’ll get done.

EDIT: PS you’ll do well to get into CAB, they’ve had all their funding cut and nowadays will only deal with the most serious of cases.

I’d have paid in full and then sued them – just to get rid of the debt collector aspect.

As part of employee benefits, all medicines/surgery for family pets was at cost price

Got this in writing?

Funny that it has taken 4 years. Have you moved house or anything? Is there any reason why there should be such a gap?

Get down to the CAB, that is what they are there for.

Or post he cat back and tell them you no longer want the surgery / drugs.

Is there a statute of limitations, (time limit) in cases like this? 4 years seems like an awfully long time for action.

Six years.

A few thoughts. First, do not deal with them over the telephone. Insist that everything is done in writing. That way, a) you have an audit trail and b) you don’t blurt out something which makes it worse.

If you dispute the debt, tell them and ask them to prove it or do one. Try something like this.

You have contacted me regarding money which you claim is owed by myself.

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (company name).

I am are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading debt collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question. I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive and / or unfair methods.

Furthermore ignoring and / or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical / psychological harassment.

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and will be informing the OFT of your actions.

My friend just waffled something about defamation in a still semi-drunk stupor. Had friends round last night and he ended up passing out on the floor.

Not read all the subsequent but that aside I’d say you have a pretty watertight unfair dismissal case there as well, you just can’t do that without due process which involves warnings, witnesses and procedures as I know only too well from trying to fire folk.

As to the debt, if you can prove the full and final settlement thing with something written you have nothing to worry about.

Funny that it has taken 4 years.

Funnier that he’s suddenly dealing with it personally when it’s already been passed to debt collectors.

You know, I’d be very tempted just to refer him to Arkell v. Pressdram and say “see you in court, then.” He sounds like a stone bonker.

Not read all the subsequent but that aside I’d say you have a pretty watertight unfair dismissal case there as well, you just can’t do that without due process which involves warnings, witnesses and procedures as I know only too well from trying to fire folk.

Heh

seems like you could potentially end this guys career. Eye for an eye? Those that are telling the truth tend to go on the offense when faced with accusations….so as they say, why go on the defense when the best form of defense is to attack? Hit him where it hurts.

I’d say you have a pretty watertight unfair dismissal case there as well

Nope, there’s a time limit for claiming unfair dismissal, 3 months IIRC

I’d be very tempted just to refer him to Arkell v. Pressdram

*googles*
ROFL
*files for frequent use in the future*

called back and left a message WITH HER CURRENT BOSS (!!!!!) saying she owes money, hasn’t paid anything, is cheating the practice out of money

If this is an untrue statement, as you say, then this is clear defamation.

Whether or not you’d actually pursue on these grounds is dubious, but it’s a nice one to add to any note to the PM asking him/her to cease harrassing you. Copied to the former practice partners, obviously.

I’d be very tempted just to refer him to Arkell v. Pressdram

*googles*
ROFL
*files for frequent use in the future*

I’m always astonished that more folk don’t read Private Eye

Is her old boss using Sue, Grabbitt and Runne as her solicitor?

Attempt to cover hole in the books by desperate threatening of former employee?

I would say that the one thing no one has pointed out is that the former employer is in breach of the data protection act.

In digressing the nature of the debt/dispute to a third party that is not involved they will face prosecution and a heavy fine.

I would quietly advise them that they will stand to lose their business if they push the claim as the breach of the DPA will cost them a lot more than the money that want from you.

Far out there’s some terrible advice on here. So far we have the OP’s wife suing her old boss for unfair dismissal, harassment, defamation and war crimes, and sending error-laden cut and paste screeds to debt collection agencies. And the best citation so far is “my mate’s a law student”! I’m surprised we haven’t had some freeman of the land stuff suggested.

As Peterfile says: until you actually see something more significant than some mad ex-boss from four years ago whining, just relax. And ignore any legal advice from anonymous smartarses on the Internet (including this).

Is her old boss using Sue, Grabbitt and Runne as her solicitor?

Either that or he’s got Carter-**** on the case..

EDIT – Unfortunately this doesn’t work given STW’s automatic editisation of the F word!

Sue for what –
Data protection, defamation, and harassment at a first guess

How supportive is the current employer?

If something like this was happening to me, my boss would get the company solicitor involved, not in the personal debt, but to stop any harassment.

Get proper legal advice asap. It’ll cost you hundreds but isnt the stress and harrasement costing you more?

sending error-laden cut and paste screeds to debt collection agencies.

Not that it should matter, but it’s cut and pasted (and yes, hastily edited, have a biscuit) from my own thread from when I was dealing with something similar.

As Peterfile says: until you actually see something more significant than some mad ex-boss from four years ago whining, just relax

From a debt point of view sure, however I suspect she’d quite like the harassment to stop.

Debt collectors after a month?
They clearly didnt have a Court order for the debt, so you shoudlnt have paid them originally.
You had an Invoice for the amount, broken down into constituent parts?
Presumably you dont have this?
Firstly, wait until there is a written claim.
If phone calls happen again, write and say they are harrassing you, and to put their claim in writing, with a break down of costs.
When you have that, you can decide on the next step. Which will be likely to be that you deny most of these charges, you state why you are disputing them, and say you will be defending yourself if the matter goes to Court.
They are most unlikely to take this to Court. If they do, they are very likely to lose.
Debt collectors are the fly in the ointment. They are supposed to follow guidelines about trying to collect debts. As most know, their interpretation of the rules would not be the same as a normal person. They will believe the Claimant, rather than you. You may have to threaten Legal action yourself to get it stopped, if the Claimant doesnt see sense.

The debt doesn’t exist. Pimp slap her old boss and put some poo through their letterbox

Tell ’em to bring it on, you look forward to seeing them in court, but remind them that you will be seeking to recover your legal costs from them in the very likely event that the court finds in your favour.