A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

Yes, yes, but what tyres for Spain?

Best of luck to Sierra Cycling.
Tough crowd round here.
I’ll certainly look them up when I intend to visit there.
Let he who never rides cheeky trails or break a road rule post the next negative post.

Which bit of Spain?

I never ride cheeky trails or brake road rules.

I’m never impressed by the court of STW, hence my suggestion a number of pages ago.

I think this is the wrong way to settle this kind of thing, and I am not convinced that it is a fair forum for companies to have to enter to defend themselves.

Ultimately you are looking at a holiday that did not live up to expectations vs someones livelihood…

hugor – Member

Let he who never rides cheeky trails or break a road rule post the next negative post.

I ride cheeky trails; I don’t take paid groups down them on organised tours. And if there’s any truth to what’s been said here, that the individual guests could be punished as well as the guide, that’s bang out of order (tbh it’s bad enough even if it just disrupts a day’s ride)

I think this is the wrong way to settle this kind of thing, and I am not convinced that it is a fair forum for companies to have to enter to defend themselves.

That does actually raise an interesting point. If a company is willing to sell themselves over the forum, surely they accept that they can and will receive negative feedback over the same forum if they make mistakes, in the same way that they are happy to receive the positive feedback, no?

I ride cheeky trails; I don’t take paid groups down them on organised tours.

Have you not ever joined an organised ride or actually organised one that involves a few cheeky trails?
I certainly have.
Not much difference IMO

I think it was sarcasm hugor.

I think this is the wrong way to settle this kind of thing, and I am not convinced that it is a fair forum for companies to have to enter to defend themselves.

I’m not entirely sure that you are correct though. Lots of people scour the internet before making a big trip to be sure it is right for them. Negative reviews are just as valuable as good ones, and in fact possibly more valuable as they give you a more accurate viewpoint than the effusive over the top ones. The trick is to be able to read them and balance them again the good ones. If the owner had used his opportunity to reply well it would have worked really well in his favour, unfortunately he didn’t

hugor – Member

Let he who never rides cheeky trails or break a road rule post the next negative post.

OK.
Sierra Cycling don’t sound like an outfit I’d like give my hard earned money to.

I’ve certainly never ridden a “cheeky trail”, whatever one of them is.

I think it was sarcasm hugor.

Yeh I know it never translates well when written does it?

Crikey Nope. Disagree. The issue here is not so much what actually happened but the response of SC at the time, and more crucially their response in this thread.

The thing which will put most people off is alan’s response. If this were a court he has convicted himself with his own evidence.

Threads like this, from people who have a track record of posting here on a variety of subjects are useful. If MC had just registered to whinge that would be a different matter

Northwind +1… I’m honestly not sure I would do if a guide I was with stopped, looked at me and said “So…. the next sections a bit cheeky”.

From the OP’s post this situation was even worse in that they weren’t even made aware of the cheekiness (that can’t be spelt right but anyway) of the trails until they were caught. I would be seriously unhappy with that situation no matter what else occured.

If a person’s livelyhood is based on organizing people’s holidays,surely it’s not too much to ask they be competent at doing so.
I ride only cheeky trails,but it doesn’t pay my bills.

That does actually raise an interesting point. If a company is willing to sell themselves over the forum, surely they accept that they can and will receive negative feedback over the same forum if they make mistakes, in the same way that they are happy to receive the positive feedback, no?

A valid point, but as the previous 8 pages show, it seems to be the case that it is not about the OP vs the company, it’s the OP plus the righteous feckers of STW against a company who have already been painted in a poor light.

It seems to be a no win situation for a company who, up until now, seemed to have a reasonable reputation.

I’m just unconvinced that this is a fair or satisfactory way to resolve the problem.

You all ride the odd cheeky trail day to day cause they’re usually better or the best way of linking non cheeky sections.
Why is it different just because you’re in Spain?
You paid to be guided to the best trails in that area not to go to a designated mountain bike park.
I acknowledge that they probably should let the riders know that a section is a little bit cheeky but hey its no big deal really.

It seems to be a no win situation for a company who, up until now, seemed to have a reasonable reputation.

I disagree in that the company can’t salvage anything. 8 pages of nagativity isn’t going to be read by someone looking for reviews so they will speed read an come to their own conclusion.
Again it’s back to my point, Alan is well aware of how the forum works as he pops up with a certain regularity and almost always when Spain appears in the thread title, therefore he must be aware of how the witch hunts work and that if one is to use the forums for their benefit they must accept and deal with it when it goes pear shaped.
I still think that Sierra Cycling can come out of this positively.

hugor – Member
You all ride the odd cheeky trail day to day cause they’re usually better or the best way of linking non cheeky sections.

I really don’t.

crikey – Member

I’m just unconvinced that this is a fair or satisfactory way to resolve the problem.

A decent reply and a promise to sort out the issues would have helped greatly

hugor – Member

Have you not ever joined an organised ride or actually organised one that involves a few cheeky trails?
I certainly have.
Not much difference IMO

Selective quoting ahoy… And yes, there’s a difference. If I go for a ride and get kicked off the hill, I’m not paying hundreds of pounds for the pleasure, let alone getting fined for someone else’s choice of trail.

hugor – Member

You all ride the odd cheeky trail day to day

Nope.

Oh well I’ll add my experiences. I’ve been with Sierra Cycling twice and had a great experience both times and found Alan a pleasant chap and enjoyed the accommodation and local facilities. I’ve also been with both Freeride Spain and Seasonally Unadjusted and had problems with both of them but I know many liked them so assume I was unlucky.

Why is it different just because you’re in Spain?

The difference is that the cheeky trail in question is, I belive, in a National Park and is not any old cheeky trail. Cheeky trails don’t really exist in Spain.
It would be better to make a comparison to a guide company taking a group of paying customers up Snowdon during the closed season.
FYI, I have never ridden a cheeky trail or been witnessed breaking a road rule.

Wow. What a completely tedious, yet typical STW thread.

I’m impressed and very surprised by your law abiding habits.
I’m an Aussie an 99.9% of mtb is illegal there for conservation reasons that are daft but a reality.
I guess I have become comfortable with illegal mountain bike riding.

My bad sorry.

In the state of WA where I lived there are 5 legal mountain bike trails which amount to a total of prob 50kms. This area could hold the entire UK probably 5 times over. In Aus if you don’t ride illegally you don’t ride much!

Off topic sorry. Now back to bagging Sierra!

hugor – I’ll let you in to a secret. Scotland has right to roam. we can ride almost anywhere.

YAWWWNNNN

I will make one and one only response to Alan so this doesnt descend into a snipefest,

See i was thinking “fair enough” with the OP but once he said the above and has just continued to post it has made me think.. off stop bleating and move on with your life…

😯

Let he who never rides cheeky trails or break a road rule post the next negative post

OK I will. 😀

You are not comparing like-for-like. It’s not illegal to cycle off Bridleways in England and Wales. It is (AFAIK) illegal to cycle in that Spanish National Park. 😛

cynic-al – Member
I never ride cheeky trails or brake road rules.

POSTED 47 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Whats a cheeky trail? never heard of them up here…….

Whats a cheeky trail?

you can tell if it’s a cheeky trail as Lembit Opik will be trying to bang it

cynic-al – Member
I never ride cheeky trails or brake road rules.

Riding a bike that does not comply with CEN? Is that legal?

9 pages…

Well done everybody!

I think that there will always be clashes of personality and difference of opinions, some obviously love SC’s ways of running things and others less so.

Sadly Alans response was not very well thought out. An enormous slice of humble pie and a load of kissing under the saddle would have sorted this.

It is still not too late for Alan to step up to the mark and be the bigger man.

Damage limitation really…

Now I am going back to my popcorn to continue following this thread.

Hammer.

FWIW if you ride switchbacks you do ride in the national park on what i assume are illegal trails (I have the gps track if you want to check).

I found out on the plane on the way home this assertion and that when challenged Mike said he had a “special relationship” with the National Forest Police (or whatever they are called). I never found out if he is “sharing the shower” with the chief constable or what…

on the subject of guiding: I haven’t met a MTB guide yet that hits the level of professionalism that I would expect from a mountain guide. I’m not knocking the guides I’ve met personally (all perfectly lovely people, one of them very lovely). However when I use the term ‘professional’ I have very high expectations and most have had a degree of kit and/or preparation which has been left wanting.

I’m not gonna name names as all companies seem to be in the same situation, so prolly my expectations are too high.

http://www.sports-tracker.com/#/workout/adders/6n1hkea4ffns0dtc

There’s the route. is it illegal?

This is “kiwi” Dave I worked as a guide for Alan for 3 seasons Feb to July and Aug to Dec 2009 and Feb to July 2010. A friend of mine put me onto this thread, I don’t follow this, or any other forums, no longer work as a guide and doubt if I will ever again. In fact, the job ruined my love affair with mountain biking and I haven’t really been on a bike since (other than a DH day at La Molina which I can thoroughly recommend)

There’s been a couple of comments about me and Sierra Cycling. This has been fascinating for me as its been over a year since I worked for Alan and two and a half years since my first day as a guide. My life is completely different now and it all seems like such a long time ago and a different person. I’m not taking any of this personally, have no axe to grind, not here to pass judgment, pick fights or even give a definitive opinion, my experience as guide, as with this post is a bit of fun and quite cathartic. I think this an interesting thread and as I have an insiders view I thought I’d give my two cents on what it was really like “living the dream”

Oh and I’ve also been a dive master…

In a nutshell it seems the poster is upset about six things

1, Mary wasn’t very friendly
2, They had to squeeze in a van for one uplift/downlift because the other had broken down
3, A bike got damaged during loading
4, The guide didn’t have a pump (and/or other equipment)
5, One of the guides was sick and there wasn’t any cover
6, One of the trails wasn’t legal

Have I missed anything out? I hope not, here we go….

1, Mary is perhaps the unhappiest person I have ever met, I don’t think she has been friendly to anyone in her life! So don’t take it personally. She was responsible for ruining many a good mood, myself, guests and the other guide Jonny included. I should make it clear that I never got on with her and I believe she is a liability to Alan’s business (probably his health, sanity and sex life as well) but she really has very little to do with the overall experience of the riding, other than a negative personality occasionally wafting around. Most guests commented on the Alan and Mary dynamic. I used to encourage a bit of piss taking. It helped deal with her constant bad mood and often lightened the tension. I completely understand how it would be a bad start to a holiday, it used to piss me off as well but maybe it should all be taken for what it is, which is……and my girlfriend will kill me if I finish this sentence….

2, On the van thing It seems like Alan had the choice of making two trips or one. I’m guessing guests are hanging around while the van goes back down and comes back up. For the sake of one person? Its not surprising Alan encouraged the trip. I would have explained the situation and given guests the option to wait or to share the van. I’m not sure if he did that. Maybe he should have hired a van but maybe there wasn’t enough time to arrange it and maybe he just couldn’t afford it? Either way, I find this a bit petty really, its not like anyone planned for the van to break down, one person jumps in a van for a trip or two….its a mountain biking holiday not a QE2 cruise.

3, Damaged bike? No excuses there BUT, yeah another but…bikes do get scratched, dinged and manhandled. Loading and unloading bikes is a complete pain in the arse, but its also a bit of an art, it takes time and practice to get right. If Alan loaded them then I can almost guarantee that there would be damage. I never used to let him load the vans as he did such a bloody awful job of it (though I think it was a secret ploy to get out of having to do any work, and he had the gall to call me lazy) A trailer may be a better solution and I know it works for some companies but if the bikes are packed properly and with care there shouldn’t be any damage. Unless of course you are one of these silly tossers who brings their GBP10,000 bike over and can’t ride it up a curb. Then you deserve everything you get…..

4, OK. I don’t know Dave but having equipment is a big deal. After a comedy ride where every thorn in Andalucia developed a rubber fetish I run out of tubes. After attempting to fix punctures on the side of the trail, I rang out of patches and eventually had to give the guest my bike while I walked the hire bike down to meet Alan, who then proceeded to tell me off for interrupting his tea. After that I made sure that I carried at least four, sometimes six to eight (depending on the size of the group) spare tubes. However, I still used to run out occasionally and borrow off of a guest. There was also only so much I could carry, my pack weighed between 8 and 10 kilos (more than 10% of my bodyweight) I now have lower back problems because of that pack. I don’t think this excuses Dave but on one occasion I also had both my main (and my spare pump) pack up on me and I had to borrow a guests pump. I don’t think this made me a bad guide. Spain is a nightmare with thorns and I changed more tyres and fixed more punctures in a week than most riders will do in a lifetime. We had a joke, mountain biking is what you do in-between punctures. If a hire bike got a flat we would fix it, if it was a customers bike then it would depend, I can fix a flat pretty fast and I would change it if the group were being held up, sometimes though that was the worst thing to do as the guest’s manliness would be questioned. My assessment would be that if three people are fixing a flat they certainly don’t need me to come over and tell them what to do, best to leave well alone….

5, Sick guide? I also don’t know full story here, but it happens. In my last season Jonny had a massive stack and I was the only guide for three weeks while he recovered. I rode quite cautiously (as some of my frustrated guests can vouch) so I was out only once from a fall and had to take a day to recover. I also got sick with a throat infection, from breathing in all the cow and goat crap on the trails, and had to take a week off. As some of you may know, it can really hurt when you crash a mountain bike. If I couldn’t ride, I didn’t get paid so being off the bike is a big deal. Again I don’t know the details but I agree that a guide rides with the group. It seems like Alan had some cover but made the error of splitting the group, four guides could have easily handled a mixed group even if two of them didn’t know the trails. The largest group I managed on my own was 19, its a pain and means lots of stops to regroup, lots of explanation and a good knowledge of the trail but it can be done.

6, Legal trails? Bro, its Spain, everything and nothing is illegal…its just if you get caught that matters. I never got caught riding that trail, Jonny did. I think you were unlucky, but lucky that they didn’t confiscate your bikes and ask for a “fine” to return them. This could happen on almost all singletrack in Spain (the 3m rule is correct) so all trails are pretty much “cheeky” and its not just Alan that rides that trail.

As for what makes a good guide? I had guests tell me I was awesome and they had a great time, some tipped (most didn’t even buy me a beer) and few became and still are friends. I also had guests tell me that the trail was sh*t, that the weather was sh*t, the food was sh*t, that their bike was sh*t and that I was sh*t. I agree Jonny was a great guide, much better than me, but he was also a bit of an odd fish and had had trouble adapting to the “real” world. After more than two years in Fuengirola he had made no friends, he lived breathed and slept that job. It was a lifestyle for him, he worked constantly and had very little social life. Its awesome that he met a girl, fell in love and is now in NZ, not guiding as far as I know. Personally I think Alan should have bought Jonny into the business as a partner, he isn’t getting any younger and seems unable / unwilling to work as a guide, which as we know is rather important for an mtb company. For me it was different, as a “corporate dropout” I was finishing an MBA and taking some personal time out from a very stressful few years. I wanted to do a good job, I wanted my guests to be happy but it was a working holiday for me not a proper job. I think thats fair to say of most guides, I don’t know anyone (who doesn’t own the business) who is guiding in the long term. At the end of my last season I was absolutely ready to leave and do something else and I didn’t mind telling anyone that would listen, it’s a social sport and I’m a social person. I don’t believe me talking about leaving would make any difference to anyone’s holiday or my ability to guide, I’d done three full seasons by then and was pretty experienced, I’m more surprised that no-one has complained about my driving!

I’m also going to mention that the living arrangements were untenable. I shared a house with my boss, a crazy woman and a judgemental, monastic colleague who I spent every waking moment with. The accommodation was ok, I had the choice of a single or double room, shared a bathroom and didn’t pay for it. But, and its a big BUT…the atmosphere in the house was appalling. I was discouraged to cook my own food and/or socialise with Alan and Mary. I had the choice to either be shut in my room or to go out. I went out, and was subsequently accused of partying too much. If had a friend over it was very obviously not welcomed by Mary. In fact if I said hello to Mary I would be lucky to get a response and don’t even get me started on the debacle that was “breakfast” I was 16 again and living with my parents and none of the benefits (we even secretly called them “mum and dad”) Jonny was pretty good with it all, but he was a hermit anyway. Mary took an instant dislike to me and I realised that this was a”no win” situation, it didn’t matter what I did right, it would always be wrong. So I did what I thought was necessary, which was the bare minimum to get by and make life bearable for myself when I was on the bike. Not a good attitude, but induced by Alan and Mary’s behaviour towards me. I expected a reasonable living situation, if they had provided it my work ethic would have been very different. After 9 months of this I moved out and got my own apartment. This cost me more than 50% of what I was paid, an expense that I feel would not have been necessary if the living arrangements had been more sociable. I’m lucky, 10 years working in Asia made me financially independent but with rent, bike parts, clothing, guest responsibilities and travel I would say that it actually cost me money to have that job.

I’m not complaining, it was my choice and overall it was a wonderful experience but the lifestyle is not how people imagine it. I worked 6 days a week (sometimes 7) rode 5-6 hours a day, socialised with guests in the day (often the same conversation over and over again, no I don’t give a crap about the new shimano bling bling) and often in the evening. Then there is the maintenance of the bikes (normally a welcome day out of the saddle) This is fine for a week or three but I did it for months at a time. We had long seasons in Spain, its not like the Alps where normally the guiding is 3/4 months and then you do something else. In 2009 I rode pretty much every day for 9/10 months.

That sounds wonderful to some but I had very little down time, I got very fit but I was always exhausted. I was riding a LOT but it wasn’t trails I would ride personally and even the best trails got boring. I wasn’t riding for myself, or even with my friends. I got to meet a lot of people, most of whom were great, but like anything, this sport attracts bores, geeks, crazies, weirdos and arseholes. Group dynamics are a funny thing, you can have a great group comprised of total **** and a crap group comprised of really great individuals. After a while it gets to be a complete grind. The guests who you are lucky enough to become friends with eventually leave to be replaced by another set of strangers, and the cycle continues.

I think Jonny and I worked well together, mostly when he wasn’t trying to be the boss and let things work themselves out for themselves. He could (and did) criticise me for not taking enough responsibility, which I think is fair enough, but really this should have been directed at Alan rather than me. It’s was his company, not mine and very early on I was designated the junior guide, even though often when Jonny was away I would end up running pretty much the whole shebang on my own. I didn’t mind, Its not rocket science. I think I was a better guide when it was just me anyway. Jonny and I are not friends but I have nothing but respect for him as a guide and a rider. However, he upset guests with his stubbornness and combative attitude as often as I upset them with my laid back, don’t give a damn demeanour. I grew up in NZ, he is a Scot. Most people like me, but not everyone. I’m aware that I can come across as laissez fare but I think also that there is sometimes a cultural difference. What can I say? I don’t take myself too seriously, try my best with people and attempt to be open, honest and true. I was 100% myself, good days and bad, how else can I be? Ultimately, if people do not like me I don’t really care……I have enough friends….

Despite all of the above, Alan’s rather undiplomatic reply to this thread, and my limited exposure to only one MTB company I would still say that Alan does a pretty good job, he’s USP is that its 20mins from Malaga airport, on the beach but still close to the trails. Fuengi has great weather and some fantastic nightlife. He’s cheap as well. The trails are good and there is a lot of great stuff in the area, I met Nathan Rennie on our trails. I think the real struggle is with mixed abilities. In my experience Alan didn’t always verify people’s fitness / skill requirements before they arrived. Often we would have to sort that out as we rode with them and that can lead to mixed expectations. It didn’t bother me as I would always end up with the easier (?) group, which meant generally more chat and less testosterone, I was good at that. Jonny had to work hard with some of the more advanced guys but he was good at that too. Big groups I think we worked well together. To be fair to Alan though, its hard to asses people before they arrive as they will say they are experts and fall off when the trail gets loose, others will be closet roadies that kill you on climbs and whine when you have to go down on dirt, a few have all the gear and really, no idea, others just want to beat the guide up or down a hill (I hated those guys) , some have a genuinely amazing experience riding a bicycle and sharing that with you (they were the best).

Alan sometimes oversold what we had, but he’s in business, you can’t blame him for that. Its also up to the guest to express what they want, we always did our best to provide a good experience and choose the right trails, I’d say we got it right most of the time, often it worked despite itself, occasionally we got it wrong.

One thing I learnt about guiding is that ultimately it isn’t really about the trails, the guide, the location, the price or even the company you use, its actually about you the guest, and the attitude you bring to the table. If you decide you are not going to have a good time, then you are not going to have a good time. I had guests and groups that I would bend over backwards for, fix punctures, fix their gears, change itinerary, be their new best friend, drink with them, take them shopping, listen to their problems, laugh at their jokes and they still wouldn’t be happy. It would not make an ounce of difference what I did, they had already decided they were not there to have a good time. With other guests, I’d rock up late, hungover as ****, hardly talk to them, serve them an inedible breakfast, mooch around some crap trails in the rain, take them to hospital, completely take the piss out of their bikes, their riding and their stupid accents and they would absolutely love me, love the trails and love Sierra Cycling, some even warmed to Mary….amazing….

Guides aren’t superhuman, they aren’t doing it for their ego (mostly) or the money, they are doing the job coz like you, they love cycling, so if you go on an mtb holiday (with any company) go with a good attitude, it’s the only thing that really counts.

*tops up kettle, nips to shops for another pack of biccies*

Wow this thread just keeps on giving!

pack of biccies? Reckon you’ll need more than that!

And most of the tea in China…