A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

(Mr MC now with my own account!)

I will make one and one only response to Alan so this doesnt descend into a snipefest, so if he replies again as is his right I will not follow up. In bold not because I am more important or shouting, but using the quote function got complicated.

To review your complaints:
Guides: We normally work well with 2 professional guides with total knowledge of all our trails with myself as backup. One had an accident so had to call up a fully qualified Spanish guide. Good but not much English and limited trail knowledge.
The other guide Dave unfortunately fell ill for the whole week and was out of the picture except as a driver for one day.
Ash our new fully qualified guide joined us Tuesday but had no knowledge of the routes.
Still, everyone got out riding each day.

Is that a positive? I would have thought that would be a minumum?!

We gave you an option of splitting your group by ability, something you declined, it would have been better to have 2 groups of 7 given the limited resources for that week.

I was never party to this conversation. Who was it with? The nature of the riding was never discussed so we never had the option of considering where/how to ride. You were asked on more than one day what the plan was and your reply was “oh I dont like plans they have a habit of going wrong”. Dave was repeatedly asked about the trail and was completely unable to describe them so we couldnt assess who would ride what

Buses: Picked up a brand new bus in September thinking that would solve transport problems but second bus broke down with broken alternator. Could have rented another bus but as we were only doing local hills – multiple uplifts with one bus with a short wait seemed the solution to go for.

Why were we only doing local trails? Convenience? Again we were never offered a choice or an itinerary of going further afield. And the one day the guides (you and Ash) were left to load the vans (lunch stop by the mad walkway) one our our groups lovely carbon frame came back with gouges in the top tube. Ash was very careful to pack his bike first out of harms way (and who can blame him)

There was 14 bikers out that week there was never an option of 10 persons in a 9-seater something which in any case we would not allow.
When the second bus broke down whilst I was away waiting for the repair vehicle your group of 9 insisted in taking the new bus back with a driver making an illegal 10 persons because, once again you wanted to be together.

on the friday YOU drove 10 of us (9 clients and you) in a 9 seater bus. You could have made 2 trips but chose not to. Or hired a second bus given the other was out of action long term. We weren’t desperate to stay together and didnt insist on it, we were happy to ride together. How you chose to accommodate that was up to you.

The others came back in a half empty bus, bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

Again not sure this reflects well on you or warrants a reply. I didn’t realise it was our job to manage the transport and juggle clients needs?

All our guides carry full medical kit, enough spares to get off the mountain and always carry a pump. We expect you to at least bring a basic tool kit if you bring your own bike. Each of our staff is in contact with each other and with the bus for instant response to any problems..

How could dave solve problems sat in cafe when we were riding? Did he call you to tell you he had lost a client? What was your response? You never came to see he had made it home okay? I also know Ash had recommended walkie talkies as there is no reception in places. Dave borrowed one of our pumps to fix Huw’s flat, so where was Daves comprehensive kit. I also overheard your conversation with Ash at the trail head outside “tonys place” where you asked him what kit he had (maybe a conversation to have before you leave) and he replied “one tube and some plasters”. When we told him how many flats we were having with thorns he replied “oh dont tell me that!”

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.

not surprised given they were a group of at most 5 with 2 guides. I know they have never ridden overseas elsewhere for comparison and during their 2 week stay were re-riding routes as they helped Salvo with route finding.
Posted On Sierra Cycling facebook page this morning
“Hi big Al thanks to you and Mary and our brother Salva dont forget the boys Danglewood Dave and Gash for a great 2 weeks biking and beers we will be back next year long drive home but we got here see you soon Dave Dawn Steve and Sue”

should I get the other 8 in our group to post up negative replies, or are we just getting immature?

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

again not sure this is worth a reply? Only met him the once in Morocco 2 1/2yrs ago, on a holiday we still rave about

You also came with 3 in the group who obviously liked us well enough to come out for a second visit.

..and were bitterly disappointed this time around, apologetic to the rest of the group, and useful in filling in gaps in guiding and finding lost riders. The key seems to be the loss of the old guide and Dave his replacement.

We are now back to full strength so hopefully no more problems.

Apologies for the unavoidable problems of last week, avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation and bookings but hopefully the 99% silent majority will still enjoy their time out here with us.

I hope so for their sakes. Your poor service damaged your reputation with a large group of seasoned bike travellers who’ve used a range of companies. The bare facts are you overloaded a bus, ran a too-large group with one guide who didn’t guide and didn’t have basic equipment, never communicated any itinerary or options with us, and you took us on illegal trails (which you havent commented on). Others have replied here that they were also underwhelmed with SC. At least future punters can realistically manage their expectations beyond only positive reviews in a guest book. I personally made my feelings very clear to Ash on his first day with us (assuming he hasn’t told you about the conversation in the van you might want to ask him). Feel free to maintain a defensive stance and ignore critical feedback, your in your 20th year so obviously you and the majority of your clientele are content with the status quo.

working with a large group of such mixed ability was going to be impossible …………..split the group

Looking at it another way.

If I went on a surfing* holliday with Miss Spoon, our abilities are slightly different, I’d be peeved off if the guide said we had to go in different groups if we’d paid as a group for a group holliday, not a singles holliday.

*she’d not want to go on a cycling holiday

A bit of a peace offering could have really sorted this out. I read the response as “bollocks you weren’t our favorites anyway”.

That’s exactly how I read it too. Customer relations and damage limitation obviously not a strong point or even considered.

I would be willing to put myself forward as an impartial assessor of their services, I’ll only charge £25 / hour plus ex’s.

I’ll report back pon my return 😆

I used to be a dive guide and in my experience you plan things so you can cope with problems. Expected ones and unexpected ones, likely ones and unlikely ones. You have back up plans, back up guides/routes/vehicles etc.

I had to plan for various equipmnent failures/weather changes etc etc, so it is possible to do. We would plan for everything and even the impossible, it was good practice.

You keep your guests informed and treat them like royalty. You dont act in a laid back shambolic manner, you act in a very professional manner. You seek out feedback all the time day by day. You do not make do. You do not wait for complaints. If a problem arrises you fix it, that your job and that what the guests pay for.

If the group is mixed you cater for it with extra guides / smaller groups / some training etc. You make the suggestion before hand.

Its not up to the guests to do any of this, a good organisation will sort it and ensure the guests have a good time.

If you have to provide a substandard service you do it free and apologise there and then and make it up the next day.

That is how we used to run our diving company, we had to or we would loose out to our competitors because divers use a forum and talk to each other. Just like mountanin bikers.

This company seems to have failed on all counts.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

I’ve been on courses with Cycleactive and they ARE excellent, professional and ultimately offered a great serivce.

I’m sure any professional organisation that offered holidays based around “guided cycling” would be gutted if their customers only got a hour or so’s riding while a member of staff who they are paying just sat in a cafe.

A reply to a customer who is disputing that your service is far from good should never contain anything that makes you look unprofessional:

Ouch! That hurt! Maybe you could have said something during the week?

bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

Loved all the other companies jumping on the bandwagon!

Probably because they are disgusted by the actions of a business operating in their industry.

Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i’d be gutted. I’ve gone on holiday with them not some randoms.

Interesting case study of how social media can be used to counter unhappy customers in a professional manner. Or Not.
Andy@crc worked out how to do this
Alan clearly has not and has IMO dug himself a much deeper hole with that tone of response. he comes across as defensive. Attacking CycleActive/Rich Barnard come across as very immature and irrelevant. For the record, as someone who IS a friend, Mr MC’s view of Rich is accurate…

Ill be out there over Christmas and despite all your rambling moaning about the trip, I can still see me and my friends having a cracking time.

And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

Ill let you now how we get on.

broess its a good point, I had expected a short apologetic reply along the lines of “sorry, I had not realised, oversight, half price next year.” Even if inside Alan@Sierra was boiling it makes good business sense to kiss arse.

Can’t help but feel this is karma for Alan almost leaving me jobless a couple of weeks back, just a shame someone else had to suffer. Wasen’t the Spanish chap a temp or does he not know that yet!

Sounds awful and with the large array of competing companies a very unwise response.

The dave hinde of holidays!

The dave hinde of holidays!

Ouch!

Only comment I will make is I spent a long time e-mailing Alan asking about the holiday. He was clearly informed about huge disparity of riding ability in our group. I was informed it could be catered for, in that 2 groups would head out in am, all meet for lunch then maybe separate riding in pm, which we wouldn’t have had a problem with. We have been mtbing as a group for 15 yrs so we know each others riding ability and wishes very very well and don’t have issues with doing seperate things and meeting up later. Just my comment on riding ability.

Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed.

Personally, I’d have avoided S.C. after the original post but could have been turned round by a professional well considered response. The reality is that I wouldn’t touch S.C. with a barge pole now.

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for ‘Sierra Cycling’, if I was S.C. I would try some damage limitation fast. (I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

See now this thread is near the top on google. I’d say that immediate compensation and much kissing of butt would have been a better bet all round.

(I hope that does not mean getting STW towers to kill the thread as a total loss of face would result)

Nothing to add really, apart from the observation that the fact the thread has gone on for five pages probably gives an insight into the thinking at STW Towers. That said, they’re swift enough to shut down completely disappear innocent threads when a big company gets all lawyered up, as I’ve discovered…

This thread is already on page 2 of Google for ‘Sierra Cycling’

It’s interesting because normally stuff on this forum makes it to page 1 shocking quickly. I suspect it shows how Google are now not counting bad reviews as highly after all the spectacles debacle last year

Trimix hits the nail on the head with regards to customer service.

Sancho – Member
And re-reading your complaints, its still nothing that would have bothered me on the trip.

You’d be happy with one hour’s guided riding and being left to fend for yourself for the remainder of the day on the same loop?

Or perhaps it’s not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area – yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.

So not a problem.

Good evening Scruff!

Or perhaps it’s not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

yep

I used Sierra Cycling last year for a weeks holiday, two guides with very different outlook on how to treat a group. Jonny was great, very professional and did his best to ensure everyone was kept happy with the trails. Dave (Kiwi) – useless, couldnt be bothered and spoke more about leaving and getting a “real” job – his words.

I found Alan and his partner very unfriendly, I tried talking with both and I found Alan to not really care, he had his money from me I guess and his partner even less bothered about chatting with people.

The riding was actually pretty good, when Jonny was guiding. We had a pretty mixed group but rather than split the group we had to all go out together, something I raised and two others in the group also raised this. One person got a puncture and Dave couldnt have been less interested when they were having an issue with it. It was fixed by me, the rider and another rider. Dave commented that we hadnt rented the bike from them so he doesnt have to fix it – nice.

I thought the week overall was very poor, the only highlight being some very nice trails (what we went for I guess) and the guide Jonny who is a top bloke. Personally I will never return to Sierra Cycling, if I go back to Spain biking I have heard good things about Ciclo Montana and would probably try them.

I have also used Trail Addiction and Bike Village, both I thought were great, possibly enjoyed the Bike Village week a bit more but that was a pretty awesome week and was my first time biking abroad which probably influences my view a bit.

I have read Alan’s reply to the OP so if he reads this fully expect the same sort of denial, up to him I guess, whatever he says it wont change my opinion that he is living off being around for a long time and occasionally getting it right with guests. I doubt he would last long if he was a new start with that attitude.

@aP

10 years ago we had a wonderful holiday with MountainBeach, I think that it was fairly obvious that we would not be returning or recommending them – to the point where one of the guides took me to one side to apologise for the other guide and his girlfriend.

Was this in Cham by any chance?

Id be happy to go ride stuff in the area – yes.
I dont need to be led around
and looking at the cable car descent Id have sessioned that for the rest of the day.
In fact I hope that is what we do in December.

So not a problem.

They why not just rent a place on your own and save the money on paying someone else to tell you something you already know.

Didn’t want to fork out for a hire van then?

@JimSu – Italy.

I dont know the area so will want guides for showing us some routes.

So having a guide makes sense.
but then then adapting to the day is something that will make the holiday better.

Also if I booked a holiday with my friends and we where split up because of ability i’d be gutted. I’ve gone on holiday with them not some randoms.

I’ve been to Canada and on a couple of days I didn’t ride with my mates as they are more skilled they rode some trails i’d have struggled to ride and probably not enjoyed as i’m not into big jumps or big drops but enjoyed the more flow’y singletrack that I rode with smaller drops.

Sometimes I guess you have to split the group for safety/ability reasons.

Read this thread with interest, as I had a very bad experience with a well known, and it seemed at the time, universally well liked MTB business in the Alps. The experience was so bad, it put me off mountain biking for ages so I feel the OP’s pain. Think you’ve done the right thing by posting that last time and moving on…

.

Or perhaps it’s not climbing google as fast as some threads do because folk are writing SC instead of Sierra Cycling?

Does google count every time someone writes sierra cycling when it searches? Every single instance of sierra cycling on the internet?

“Sounds like very poor service. What is equally poor is the failure to accept responsibility for a paying customer being left disappointed.”

Agree with the above comment for any business. SC is not the only company out there that provides poor value, have been to a few myself. It’s not often you find the owner being the one that lets the company down. Have had guides who don’t come close to living up to what is expected of the company they guide for, when a complaint has been made the owners have been suprised and shocked (sometimes).

Lesson for all business owners with this sorry tale. You did the right thing Mr MC.

One thing we should remember is that there are some really good guides/companies out there who are a pleaseure to ride with and provide brilliant service.

having been on 7 guided holidays, and worked at one of the better known companies this summer, sierra cycling’s operation sounds shoddy as hell, tbh.
if my boss/guides had acted in that way i’d have been mortified, and would have said something myself. as a guest, you pay good money to be looked after, and thats what you should expect.

even when guests are ‘challenging’ (and not in any way suggesting that mrMC was that), the owners and guides HAVE to go to great lengths to be reasonable, friendly and put a lot of effort into making the holiday a success. its their job.

the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn’t compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.

The dave hinde of holidays!

I’ve heard Sierra Cycling and Dave Hinde will be at the Cycleshow. Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings. 😆

the company i worked for had a few challenges through the season with vans/accommodation, all it meant was that we all busted our asses to make sure that the holiday wasn’t compromised for the guests, even if it meant working non-stop from 7.30am through 10.30pm. and it was done with a smile on the face.

Ditto, when I was a guide. It’s part of the job.

To be fair, one thing that really puts me off setting something up is that I will grow bored. But as someone else said “all that means is that it’s time to either sell up or find a second/third/fourth location”.

What I’m a bit confused about is that when I had a look at the Sierra Cycling[/url] website yesterday I clicked on the link for their guestbook and was taken to this page but today when I clicked on the same link it went here instead

Either side of some guy selling Mintsauce keyrings.

Ooooof! Be careful fella – criticising declaring anything that could be construed as negative about one of the STW ‘inner circle’ is bound to end up with a ban from Grumpy Mark….

EDIT: To remain squeaky clean I have edited the above statement.

Like he would give a sh1t when there are Sanchos out there that pay for a guided holiday only to go and ‘session’ something alone.

See this is what happens when you have friends(smilie face)

Billy
Maybe youre not understanding what Im saying

Im going for a guided holiday.
However, if as from time to time things do happen and Im left with an afternoon without a guide then yes Id be happy to sesion one of the trails.
Or find some stuff.