[Closed] A shambolic week with Sierra Cycling

I'm sorry it might be a minor issue, but to my mind the little points are the ones that really show the companies that are interested. If a taxi driver can stand at an airport arrivals holding a card with your name on I would expect that at the VERY least from a holiday company who are collecting 9 paying guests.

I have only done a UK weekend with Cycleactive, but my experience of them was that their guides would not be borrowing clients pumps (in fact as an ex-shop monkey my guide demonstrated a very effective method of getting the bead over the rim simply and easily).

The OP did hopefully raise the issues on here "at site" but I think that his overall "review" was even handed (unlike some of the responses, but hey it's STW).

Cycleactive for me when I can afford another MTB hol.

deluded
Isn’t it about time (Mr MC posting) got his own username though?

Indeed

I won't go into what I said to who on the trip but suffice to say discontent was well aired

Well i'd have thought that was more important to the OP than the "scene setting" (which quite frankly just left me feeling you had high expectations). A company gives poor performance is not really news, might be bad luck, a bad week etc, and for future visitors you might assume they will be sorted now they have been aired. A company gets a complaint and fails to deal with it properly that would be more concerning. You need to sort the wheat from the chaff in your review, hopefully you were clearer about the issues when you were out there.

We have been going to SC since 2005 and have always enjoyed our trips... Last two years we have gone with a large mixed ability group all used to cycling together.
The style of SC is relaxed but that suits us, it is a holiday not a boot camp! We have cycled with many different guides over the years, some excellent (Jonny as previously mentioned and Drew before him) some less good but we have always felt well looked after and welcomed by both Alan and Mary.....who makes the best Scrambled eggs ever!
We are looking forward to our 2012 trip.

hopefully you were clearer about the issues when you were out there.

Sounds like things got off on the wrong foot (for whatever reason) and deteriorated.

I used SC for a day trip a few years back, it was crap then, it was like a student house disorganised and the day trip was short and not that great, i forget where we went and Alan seemed a little un professional and uniterested, I just to put the trip in my "done that not again" box and forgot it until i read the review

theroadwarrior - I was staying with Tim and Jenny last week. My third trip with Pure Mountains. Excellent as always. Go riding with them if you can!

I've been on over 10 organised mtb holidays over the last decade. IME, the quality of the guides and their attention to detail determines whether your holiday is just OK, or so good that you are still talking about it years later.

Laid back does not have to mean shambolic.

One of the best weeks riding I've done was with Switchbacks, based in Bubion. Just the right number of guides (though one of them used a hardtail jump bike which weighed approximately three tonnes!), and a guest spot from Rowan Sorrel, who pulled the biggest gap jump I've ever seen from just about nothing.

Utterly laid back but the guides were watchful, the medical kit looked impressive, the minibuses weren't overcrowded, and the accomodation was fine, if basic. Crucially, I'd go back there and recommend it to anyone, so long as they can cope with the terrain.

Not organised with militaristic precision, but there was care and attention to the things that mattered.

A shout for Ride Sierra Nevada...
a laid back atmosphere and most certainly not shambolic!

I had a great week with them last year, sean is an excellent guide managing mixed abilities groups easily and also seperating very good rides from teh less experienced on certain days so peoples boundaries are pushed if needed or not as with others.
My pals are back out there now - am gutted I could not afford to go back with them.
Next year may be!

a real shame your holiday was so poor.

I've never been out there but have done the Alps 3 times in the past with Alpine Tracks and Alpine Elements (twice) and had great holidays with both.

Welcoming staff who greeted you upon arrival and showed you round your base for the week. Had great guides and mechanical backup, the guys would work on peoples bikes all evening (the normal bleeding of brakes and stuff) great food.....Alpine Tracks was a little on the up market side for our liking, i know that sounds strange but you don't really want ala carte food when you've been out all day on the bike, you want carbs and lots of em.

We had amazing guides who knew all the routes and we didn't ride the same route more than once in a day.

Alpine elements were great the last few times i've been out with them. met at the airport, good banter and mix of riders. the hotel we stayed at in Les Gets was a little basic but the food was superb and the free wine kept coming all night 🙂

Eh! I thought the OP was pretty clear and I can quite see why, from his perspective, "the scene setting" wasn't right. If you can't provide a smiling welcome to paying guests, then maybe you are in the wrong business!
Sounds like things got off on the wrong foot (for whatever reason) and deteriorated.

There are three sides to every story and I look forward to hearing SC's version of events...

I've been out to that area with Freeride Spain several times, the riding is stunning and I've done a week out there without riding the same terrain twice.

As nickf said ^^ about Switchbacks, Freeride Spain were very laid back but also very switched on; funny, friendly and welcoming, the accommodation was basic but good (spotlessly clean) and anyway, the only time we were there was to eat and sleep! They're also very flexible with regards to catered/self-catered, how many days you have out there etc.

Sorry to hear your holiday wasn't up to standard but don't give up on the area, it's fantastic for both road and MTB (although probably not best suited for novices).

poly +1

[quote=poly - Member]
Aye but what was important? that Mary didn't introduce hereself? that Alan didn't wear his baseball cap? NO the quality of the guiding wasn't up to scratch. That is buried somewhere in the middle of the page. If the 'complaint' to Alan went the same way then he'd probably given up listening by the time the important stuff came up.

You have a strange definition of "buried". If by buried you mean "90% of the post" then I would agree with you. The OP gives lots of detail on how the guiding wasn't up to scratch, with a bit of scene-setting at the beginning.

Do you read books by going through the first couple of pages, then the last couple of pages, then throw the book away saying "Well, that was crap"?

poly, I attempted to put my post in chronological order of events, not order of severity. I thought this was pretty obvious, sorry if that confused you. I have attempted to be as factually accurate as possible, and avoid personal comments and "he said/she said". It appears some have had good experiences, some less so. I am entitled to post a review to assist fellow STWers to offer balance as guiding holidays are regularly discussed and recommended here.

woody, no I don't recognise any of the people in the pics.

deluded, I used to have my own account, it hasn't worked since the hack, and when I try reset it I get stuck in a "account already exists for this email" loop.

i recently went on the great rock basque mtb adventure and what you need when you arrive at the airport is a waving ed with his big bushy beard. Made me feel all special.

the little things are important (i think).

Your experience really are a stark contrast to mine so thanks again Doug and Ed.

The write-up seems pretty fair to me, perhaps just lacking some indication of the response received from Alan when these issues were raised during holiday.

I kind of agree with poly, really the bad bits of the holiday were crap guiding, and a van issue for one day, no big deal for me.

[b]BUT[/b] if it was advertised as lots of guides and the repairs and first aid, and if your impression of a guide is some kind of mountain guru, and he didn't get that, then I guess [b]it is just wrong to provide a service that is not as advertised[/b], even if some of us (me included) would find the reduced level of service acceptable.

So it seems pointless to berate the OP, just because we would find the service OK, he was sold something he did not recieve.

For a bit of ballance.......

Went with Switchbacks last year,

All days guided apart from one, which was designated a rest day but we did one of the earlier rides without the minibus. Guiding wasn't the end of the world but we did get lost!

Riding in the national park is allowed, just not off road, so we had strict instructions not to stop pedaling untill we were well into the tree line :p

OP - although you have outlined your problems with the holiday, you don't actually mention what the companies response was to your complaints... you did raise your concerns with them didn't you before bad mouthing them on an internet forum?

tinas, I went with switchbacks DH in march, going again in nov, awesome riding, great guides. Was yours DH or Bubion?

FunkyDunc - Member
OP - although you have outlined your problems with the holiday, you don't actually mention what the companies response was to your complaints... you did raise your concerns with them didn't you before bad mouthing them on an internet forum?

He's said already that he raised the issue with them at the time.

Don't think he can be accused of bad mouthing either. He's given an honest account of what happened, and the company themselves regularly use this forum, so it's open for them to make a response if they choose to.

I think its also worth pointing out that the OP is a forum regular and a pretty reasonable chap (at least that's my observation). Doesn't seem the type to complain without good cause.

People post positive reviews on here all the time, there are bound to be negative ones occasionally. A lot of people use this forum to decide where to spend their hard-earned cash and anybody who receives a bad write-up has the chance to reply. The impression this gives of Sierra Cycling is that they just don't try very hard and the whole point of a guided trip is to ensure that you get the absolute best out of the area.

tinas, I went with switchbacks DH in march, going again in nov, awesome riding, great guides. Was yours DH or Bubion?

Bubion, what's the DH place like? I'm tempted I only climb for the sake of decending, so would quite fancy doing a holliday that involved the absolute minimum of climbing. Rideable on an 'all-mountain' bike or is it really for storm troopers in pyjamas only?

[edit] wasn't being negative about them, just wasn't entirely sold on the need for a rest day on a biking holiday.

[i] I attempted to put my post in chronological order of events, not order of severity. I thought this was pretty obvious[/i]

It was.

It didn't come across as a 'we had a crap time, and what are you going to do about it now that we're back and hiding behind a keyboard? Eh? Eh?' review, but a balanced, considered review intended to inform others who may be thinking of using the same company.

Well done, IMO. It'll be interesting to hear the response. Hopefully it'll be as balanced and considered as your review.

You can do the DH on an all mountain bike no bother. A few of the lads we were with had devinci 160mm and the like, I was on my MC battery which is 5 inch rear with 180mm totems on the front, my mate was on his yeti 575 with lyriks, and he was blistering.. Another was on a nomad with Lyriks.

I'm going back on my tr450, but I would be happy on a 160mm bike.

Where you at bubion for a week? Our 6 days riding in Malaga had no breaks.. Not sure about rest days, my experience with Mike is that he will do whatever you want.

The DH accommodation is in a place called Benalmedana, which was a village in the olden days but is now absorbed into Malaga suburbs, the edge of the village is the hill so lots of rides end up outside your fave cafe/restaraunt.
Village is quiet, supermarket some shops a fair few restaurants.
The actual accom is a self catering holiday block with a pool, bike wash (well hose pipe) and free wifi.

The guides were all DH racers who were always spot on, showing you the best lines, coaching, cracking jokes, never being surly or intimidating, and not drinking or eating any carbs...

Whatever the ins and outs were of how it was run it's fairly clear that the OP didn't have a good time, and this will have been obvious or at least suspected by those running it.

I would have hoped that the people running the place would have attempted to find out why guests didn't appear happy and determine whether or not it was a personality issue or just too laid back/chaotic for them and see whether or not something could be done to help.

Maybe they did, I don't know

You can do the DH on an all mountain bike no bother.

Sounds like the pitch/me may just about cope. Might look into a week late in the year as I've not been away yet this year for one reason or another.

What's the pitch 150mm? I'm sure Mike would probs recommend a DH bike but we all know you can ride DH tracks on a 150mm bike. It's kind of down to you..

I'm not the kind of person that would ever say that you cannot ride track X unless you have a bike with Y suspension, especially as I have a full on DH bike and have problems on fire roads, and I often get smoked by people on bromptons, shoppers and the like..

If I only had my BFe I would still go to Switchbacks DH.

How many posters who are questioning (Mr) M-C's review have actually been with SC? Having been there, I can completely understand everything (Mr) M-C is saying

As said before, if not for the excellent guide (who has now left) when I was there, I would be saying much the same thing.

I remember speaking to Alan on the phone many years ago before the internet took off, I quizzed him on the riding and location and thought it wasn't for me. Then, it did appear fairly low grade riding and I didn't fancy staying in Fuengirola! I went with Ciclomontana which was basic in terms accom and location (not in a bad way) but the riding was superb, I returned with a group of mates the next year ''bonkers mountain biking'' as one guest desrcibed it - just how I liked it! 😉

Pitch will be fine - don't let the 'only' 150mm put you off...

ChrisHeath +1 and likewise I look forward to the response, if there is one.

Surely someone must have let SC know about this?

Thanks for an honest and helpful review.

I have riden several times in the el Chorro area and realy enjoyed it some of the most enjoyable singletrack I have been on; great rock climbing too.

I have seen SC there and not been at all impressed. Since Jim at Seasonally Unadjusted stopped working you need to rely on the "OK" guide book or contact John at http://www.blazingtrails.co.uk/places.htm
who won't pretend to organise fully inclusive holidays but does provide great guiding with local knowledge and also
helps develop new trails.

Switchbacks are great but were a bit scarey for me; nice guys

Pure Mountain great accomodation, OK riding, depends if you get on with Tim.

Trailaddiction this summer had issues with our group size due to guide injuries but have been incredibley responsive for feed back and have therefore lept up in my estimation.

Bike Village small and very personal, realy nice people

Bike Greece a great travel and explore holiday, lovely food and beaches but dont expect too much technical riding or technical support

Whatever happened to Jim? I liked going to seasonallyunadjusted.

The day client suffered a puncture, and the "guide" was forced to borrow one of our pumps to fix it as neither he nor the van had any kit.

No excuse for that.

It's an odd one. I've been on a great riding holiday where I didn't get on with the owner. His partner though was great, as was the other guide, and the riding was fantastic. I'd go back tomorrow, and just be civil to the owner. There was nothing wrong with him per-se, but he had been ill and we obviously had very different views on various things. He also knew that I'd worked as a guide, so may have felt that I was judging him (which I suppose I did a little).

Where was that pimpmaster?

Jim from Seasonaly kacked it in a few years ago and moved back to Scotland I think

Ouch! That hurt! Maybe you could have said something during the week?

To review your complaints:
Guides: We normally work well with 2 professional guides with total knowledge of all our trails with myself as backup. One had an accident so had to call up a fully qualified Spanish guide. Good but not much English and limited trail knowledge.
The other guide Dave unfortunately fell ill for the whole week and was out of the picture except as a driver for one day.
Ash our new fully qualified guide joined us Tuesday but had no knowledge of the routes.
Still, everyone got out riding each day.
We gave you an option of splitting your group by ability, something you declined, it would have been better to have 2 groups of 7 given the limited resources for that week.
Buses: Picked up a brand new bus in September thinking that would solve transport problems but second bus broke down with broken alternator. Could have rented another bus but as we were only doing local hills - multiple uplifts with one bus with a short wait seemed the solution to go for.
There was 14 bikers out that week there was never an option of 10 persons in a 9-seater something which in any case we would not allow.
When the second bus broke down whilst I was away waiting for the repair vehicle your group of 9 insisted in taking the new bus back with a driver making an illegal 10 persons because, once again you wanted to be together. The others came back in a half empty bus, bet you never offered them the choice of going first.

All our guides carry full medical kit, enough spares to get off the mountain and always carry a pump. We expect you to at least bring a basic tool kit if you bring your own bike. Each of our staff is in contact with each other and with the bus for instant response to any problems..

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.
Posted On Sierra Cycling facebook page this morning
"Hi big Al thanks to you and Mary and our brother Salva dont forget the boys Danglewood Dave and Gash for a great 2 weeks biking and beers we will be back next year long drive home but we got here see you soon Dave Dawn Steve and Sue"

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

You also came with 3 in the group who obviously liked us well enough to come out for a second visit.

We are now back to full strength so hopefully no more problems.

Apologies for the unavoidable problems of last week, avoidable problems will be reviewed and err.. avoided.

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation and bookings but hopefully the 99% silent majority will still enjoy their time out here with us.

Loved all the other companies jumping on the bandwagon!

Some photos now loaded up onto our photo page of your week with us. [url] http://www.sierracycling.com [/url] since 1992.

There we go

Tea?

No idea about any of these companies but one things seems very obvious from the companies reply.
Things went wrong, guides and vans broke etc.
The company should be able to absorb that with no detriment to the service offered. Poor service if it can't.
No client should ever be allowed to break the law. ( I decline to commment on that actually happening.) Refuse to drive them if that looks like happening. Never say its your responsibilty .
If the large group had an agreement to stick together( with the company) then it is the companies job to ensure it happens even if it costs. If they didn't then I would assume that the small print covers this.
Of course now every issue that arose or possibly arose will be dealt with in the small print. If it isn't, how stupid. Cover your arse. Live and learn.

Maybe he should have hired another van.

the responce makes them sound just as shoddy as the OP made out IHO!

I think it would be best to shut this thread now. There has been a review and a reply, and it would be best left at that.

I predict a [s]riot[/s] 1000 post thread.

Ace reply. Like it or lump it. Personally would not apply that to my business but people do make money in strange ways.

[i]bet you never offered them the choice of going first.[/i]

I thought your response was reasonable until I read that line. Making a snide comment isn't the best way to protect your reputation.

You missed the 'customer service' course then?

Well we can cross Sierra Cycling off the list.

I don't get why OP didn't make his concerns known at the time, or at least contact SC directly before posting here. Why not? It's like running to your Mum when you don't get your way if you ask me.

I've been with one of the companies mentioned many times above when they lost a guide due to injury. They managed to get by but only just and you could tell it stretched them.

BUT It does sound like SC should have been better prepared.

Amen to that, toons.

I don't get why OP didn't make his concerns known at the time, or at least contact SC directly before posting here. Why not? It's like running to your Mum when you don't get your way if you ask me.

To warn everyone else? His holiday was crap, nothing is going to change that.

[quote=crikey - Member]
I think it would be best to shut this thread now. There has been a review and a reply, and it would be best left at that.

What, and spoil all the fun?

'The customer is always right', except at Sierra Cycling.

Think I'll still give them a miss. Even if the review is all lies, and as Alan suggests it was all Mr MC's group's doing, there is enough doubt on this thread that it is nowhere near worth me risking any hard earned cash on them.

Dave

Just thought I'd put a good word in for Holy Grail based in Chatel.

Run by Mick Valentine and partner Lisa, the whole setup was faultless from start to finish. Cannot recommend them highly enough.

I suppose the OP and group should have been more open at the time.

I suppose SC should have been more open as to why things were a bit shabby.

But the response from SC raises loads more questions. Why is it the fault of the clients for the driver letting too many people get into the bus? Why was a guide borrowing pumps off people if he apparently carries full first aid and repair kit? What about the illegal guiding in the national park?

Not sure why the other smaller group always got two guides
and OP's larger group (who rightly didn't want to split up) only got the one?

Yeah, if you knew a group of 10 were coming (assuming you knew) then why wouldn't you prepare for them? Pretty obvious they wouldn't want to split.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

They sound very unprofessional, even their response seems poor and makes them sound even worse. Shocking to think that a business expects to get away with that level of service, then that level of a response.

Im glad when people do post up their experiences as honestly and as well balanced as you did, its exactly that sort of info you need from a forum.

I wont be using them. Hopefully they will learn and improve, but I doubt it. They could have so easily provided a service that left you with a great experience, but no, they failed.

Why is it the fault of the clients for the driver letting too many people get into the bus?

Reply seemed fine for me tbh - sounds like some of ths tuff happened but M_C insisting on the group stay together [ their choice as their holiday] made things a little worse and harder to cope with.
Stuff happens and in life we deal with it when it happens on your holiday it proper sucks though.

What Trimix said...

I don't often go away on guided trips but when I do I won't be using them. They sound like they don't actually appreciate their customers anymore. Thanks for the heads up.

I suppose the OP and group should have been more open at the time.

I suppose SC should have been more open as to why things were a bit shabby.

This^^^^^^

I've never used SC but stuff happens; should imagine lessons will be learnt - seems slightly unfair all the kicking they're getting on here especially going of the many people that seem to have had very good experiences.

Thought the OP clearly stated he did air his views, Sierra say he never said a word. Couple of other complete contradictions as well which makes this interesting. As it stands now the tone of the reply from Sierra has done them no favours whatsoever.

Reply seemed fine for me tbh - sounds like some of ths tuff happened but M_C insisting on the group stay together [ their choice as their holiday] made things a little worse and harder to cope with.

Without wishing to play devils advocate, mixed ability groups are a nightmare to deal with on guided rides and that does sound like a VERY mixed ability group

We were a group of 9 of mixed abilities from nervous to former Commonwealth competitor

I'm surprised the company didn't explain that working with a large group of such mixed ability was going to be impossible for 1 or 2 days given the exceptional circumstances and split the groups out into "fast" and "slow" (for want of a better term).

Surely we're on time for a threat of legal action or some such 🙂

So, mixed group of 10 riders = difficult to cater for - agree with that. The key question really then is whether the group had warned the company that that was the case to allow them to prepare accordingly.

The key question really then is whether the group had warned the company that that was the case to allow them to prepare accordingly

Or the company making amendments to the plan as and when they discover that fact. Or the group being willing to accommodate/be flexible and split up for a day or two.

Indeed. Though with a small company, it's not always possible to cater for every situation though if it's likely to be a problem and they've been 'est since 1992' then I'd expect them to check with the customers beforehand.

or at least explain once there why things aren't running so smoothly

The reply from SC seemed fine to me too

They seem to have an awful lot of people that go back to them year after year so they must be doing things most of the time in a fashion that makes people return
Maybe it was never going to work for the OP and it was a personality thing - it can often be very difficult to keep problems in context if you start off on a bad footing.

I wouldn't be put off going there again

Indeed. Though with a small company, it's not always possible to cater for every situation though if it's likely to be a problem and they've been 'est since 1992' then I'd expect them to check with the customers beforehand.

Having spent a season guiding in Whistler, you pretty well have to ignore the customers opinions of themselves! Plenty of people turned up saying they were freeride gods, only to spend all week walking down hill....

I have to join the poor response from Sierra group I'm afraid. And sadly "we" will never know what really hsa happened, other than a group of 10 people paid a company to provide them with a weeks guided MTB holiday and they felt they were let down.

My opinion of Sierra from the review and response is that they seem to have either had enough of the business and don't know what to do next to get out of it OR they get plenty of business with the service they offer and are happy to continue in that way.

Being a worrier I'm in the "won't be using them" party should I ever be in a position to go on a holiday in that region.

Having spent a season guiding in Whistler, you pretty well have to ignore the customers opinions of themselves! Plenty of people turned up saying they were freeride gods, only to spend all week walking down hill....

I didn't know Hora had been to Whistler! 😉

Don't see anything from Sierra that explains this, and surprised mor ehasn't been made of it:

We completed what was planned to fill the whole morning in an hour, so our guide Dave invited us to go ride the loop again, whilst he sat in a cafe. So no medical support, no guiding, no "here's an emergency number" etc etc.

If I was paying someone for a day's guiding, got an hour's riding, and was then told to fend for myself, I'd be fuming.

As for the 10 in a van thing, the OP clearly stated they were a group of 9. They had some stranger lumped in with them making 10.

By the way the other 2 groups of 3 and 4 bikers not in your party praised our setup and have re-booked for next year.

Plenty reasons obviously, with staff and vehicle problems but surely it could have been handled better and those problems are not the paying guests fault, so every effort should have been made to lessen the impact. Poor show IMO and no proper apology (I would have expected an offer of a return discount at the very least) for a holiday which really wasn't as it should have been.

If I was paying someone for a day's guiding, got an hour's riding, and was then told to fend for myself, I'd be fuming

+1.

And the "like it or lump it - I couldn't care less" reply has only made it worse for them imo.

Morning Will.

Absolutely excellent reply from SC

right up until these points 🙁

Nice to know “Cycleactive (and Rich Barnard)” are so good , friend of yours is he?

I´m sure your posting will do some damage to our reputation...

You just can't attack someone in an apology, even if they really want to and it's correct. It was SC that damaged their own reputation by allowing it to happen in the first place as clearly something did go wrong. The apology was brilliant right up until that point 🙁

it's a good thing that no-one included the word review in their post otherwise this might show up on Google

We will never know what really happened but that said I think the SC response is pretty p*ss poor, and that in itself would stop me from booking with them. As they say, sh*t happens but it is how you deal with it that makes the difference, in this case it wasn't exactly great.

On reading the original post I was kind of on the fence over how much was really that bad, and how much was one man's perspective.

The reply from SC has put me firmly on the side of the fence that would never dream of having anything to do with them.

i would have held an open mind on this one until alan posted a reply, the nature of his reply is a dead give away that he couldn't care less.
plus he didn't actually address all the points raised.

The reply from SC has put me firmly on the side of the fence that would never dream of having anything to do with them.

And just for their info., which part of their post made you think that?

I'd suggest France next year. A bit of a peace offering could have really sorted this out. I read the response as "bollocks you weren't our favorites anyway".