A question for the STW runners

“Barefoot” shoes? I run in these with no insoles, pretty minimal.

I won the White Peak marathon earlier this year, i don’t know if that’s a good enough qualification to post Surf-Mat…?

What Bomba said.

It’s taken me an ankle injury that’s kept me out of running for the majority of 2010, and subsequently a great specialist physio who’s opened my eyes to the body’s capability, and the need for a thinner soled shoe to feel the ground as opposed to a over engineered running shoe that becomes a cast and lets your muscles degenerate.

I’ve switched to a certain type of cheap footwear – mimicing the Vibram 5 fingers but costing a tenth of, in order to simulate the barefoot running style but with some layer of protection for the sole, and am loving it.

The body knows how to run. Search YouTube for running style videos by Christopher McDougall (author of Born to Run). If you want to buy in to the expensive running shoe system that’s fine, but it won’t stop you from getting injuries.

Christopher McDougall YouTube vid

Thanks for the pointers, I think I might go the whole hog and get the Vibrams.

I like my Nike Red Rocks. I read all the stuff about barefoot / minimal cushioning running etc. and thought it made sense, but I found that whilst it was fine on the flat, running downhill with relatively little cushioning hammered my knees as they took almost all of the shock. Switching to something with some bounce to it let me heel strike a little when running downhill and made running a massively more pleasant experience.

That said, I’m a fairly casual runner, and Red Rocks aren’t anywhere near as “off road” a shoe as some of the stuff posted here. That said, they work fine for my bridleway runs. It seems to be a very “horses for courses” thing – neither New Balance or Asics came anywhere near fitting me, so they were straight off the list.

ron jeremy, ok I withdraw my withdrawal. If you get on with the Harriers and know they fit, they often pop up cheaper here and there.

Sprints are 60 notes on here and KSOs are 70, thats a decent discount. It almost seems too good to be true…

http://www.seenontv24store.com/vibram-fivefingers-classic/fivefinger-ksos/vibram-fivefingers-kso-shoes-black-mens.html

The body knows how to run.

This is a myth imo.

you can try it for yourself – find a nice big room / warehouse / long corridor with a good hard floor.

take off your shoes, and start running – nice and slowly.

you’ll be better than you expect.

Finbar – of course you do. Flipping (is that a swear word? 🙂 impressive.

Ask Andrew Murry on twitter
http://www.scotland2sahara.com/
he is in the middle of doing 3000 miles for charity, averaging 30-35 miles a day. So he may have an opinion on shoes.

So what is his opinion?!

Finbar, 3:10 off road? Very good 😆

take off your shoes, and start running – nice and slowly.

you’ll be better than you expect.

But do we have any feedback from competitive runners or those like me averaging 50 mpw?

Overinflated opinion of self worth and called Matt

The second time you’ve tried to get everyone’s attention and been ignored there Boblo. Some issues by any chance? Mummy not giving you enough attention.

Anyway as clearly stated, I’m not hugely into running but do okay (just “okay”) in 10k trail races. Some are VERY into running but get cr4p results. Some are very into into and get brilliant results (like Finbar and Surfer). These are the ones to listen to, not some all the gear no idea runner who isn’t very good

Aaah Matt, back from exile. Good to see you back on the forum, thought I might be joining you on the naughty step yesterday.

Just joshing with you old son and you do bite rather easily 🙂

not some all the gear no idea runner who isn’t very good

I have a pair of trainers….is that too much gear?

Just listen, don’t argue/ask questions…

I’ve run a few sub three hour marathons in the past as a club runner. That’s before I stopped running because of osteo-arthristis in both hips. Averaged over 50 miles a week for years peaking @ around 80 miles in marathon training. All I’d say is stick with good cushioning & don’t listen to all this barefoot crap. The impact of the footstrike affects the whole body. I must also say that alot of my training was off road as well …light permitting. Buy the best shoes you can afford & change them regularly depending on mileage ; I’d say every 6 months at least as a regular runner

Not sure Surf mat approves your sub 3:00 hour time, is it awesome enough? Only then will we know if your advice is worthy.

molgrips –

The body knows how to run.

This is a myth imo.

Not really – run down the street in running trainers, then try the same stretch barefoot – whereas before you may be heel striking the ground, your body will automatically adjust to more of a mid/fore foot plant when running barefoot.

As I’ve experienced first hand, you may need to do some work in awakening certain muscle groups that haven’t been used as much due to years of running in trainers, but the body does have a system in place to cope effectively with running without any aids.

“As I’ve experienced first hand, you may need to do some work in awakening certain muscle groups that haven’t been used as much due to years of running in trainers, but the body does have a system in place to cope effectively with running without any aids.”

Maybe….but it’s still useless advice in the long term

djglover…do I need to provide evidence?

🙂 Don’t ask me dude

D28boy – Member

Maybe….but it’s still useless advice in the long term

why is it useless?

why is it useless?

Re-read my post or don’t ..it’s up to you…it’s your body…

Anyway I don’t use tyres on my bike anymore… it just developed a system to cope effectively without them….oh & I fell off as well

Maybe….but it’s still useless advice in the long term

Well I’m not here to give you advice, I was responding to molgrips’ myth comment.

The idea that cushioned running trainers alleviates impact of footstrike doesn’t take into account the whole picture. The cushioning which creates the barrier between foot and ground creates problems as there is a need for the foot to feel the ground, and the brain to recognise when that is happening. More cushioning = harder footstrike, generally on the heel = ankle injuries.

Personal choice though, but the switch is working for me.

(sighs)

your posts read:

“i was a good runner (you were), i love heel striking i do, now i’ve got arthritis in my hips, all this fore-foot advice is useless.”

(i’ve summarised a little).

do you think the advice is useless – cos our bodies know how to do it anyway?

or do you think the advice is uselss – cos the very idea is silly?

(sub 3 hours is very impressive, your opinion carries weight)

I am just going for a run now….I just don’t think I am going to enjoy it knowing that I am probably rubbish and not reaching for the max and pumping that burn…or something like that.

….I do enjoy being out in the countryside tho.

I do enjoy being out in the countryside tho

Best bit for me. I’m a half decent runner but can’t be bothered with the competitiveness over times. Up early for a run in great surroundings is where the enjoyment lies for me, not shaving a couple of seconds off my 10k time.

Finbar, 3:10 off road? 😆

Thanks Surfer, it’s a lot slower than the normal winning times for that race but it was about 30 degrees C, which suited me just fine and apparently didn’t do the competition any favours.

Back on topic, i ordered some Vibram Fauxfingers from dealtoworld about a month ago. Worked out at ~£21 in total. If they ever turn up i’ll post a review.

Linky

Ahwiles-I believe most quality trainer manufactures spend time & money developing their shoes so that the rotation of the foot on contact with the ground mimicks the foots natural action. Cushioning is simply that…an attempt to reduce the impact force on the body when this occurs. They manufacture shoes for specific purposes, weight reduction ultimately leads to quicker times but lighter shoes offer less protection & more vulnerability to injury long term. Race in lightweights train in more cushioned/heavier shoes would be my advice.Heel strike is different for runners of differing abilities. If you watch a middle distance athletes there is very little heel strike …a jogger has a lot but shoe makers offer support in both area’s.

I’m not saying I’m definitely right & they are wrong …just that I believe if you’re running any distance regularly on roads or hard trails a light/no shoe will lead to injuries/joint issues. Also have you ever stepped onto a flint on the ball of your foot in a light shoe when running/racing? That bruised bone can hurt for weeks!

Thanx for the comment of my opinion carrying weight…I’m noticing that more & more since I’ve stopped running.

Only wish I could still go out for a nice run in the country any time I wanted!

just that I believe if you’re running any distance regularly on roads or hard trails a light/no shoe will lead to injuries/joint issues

Runners must have been completely crippled before the invention of super cushioned, advanced running shoes that’s subsequently calmed the number of sustained injuries then? Oh…

Hey Jolsa- I’m not rising to your trol. I’m simply trying to offer my advice as someone who ran regulary for more than 20 years in response to a reasonable question. Take it or leave it

Lovely run in the countryside just now – it’s reached a sweltering EIGHT degrees here! A random mixture of still solid/frozen ground and mud.

Nice and sunny too.

I think the Army term works well with running – unless an elite runner KISS.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Runners must have been completely crippled before the invention of super cushioned, advanced running shoes that’s subsequently calmed the number of sustained injuries then? Oh…

Some where some werent. The attrition rate was high however. As someone who believes that athletes years ago (UK) trained harder, were faster and tougher than today I still believe that cushioned shoes (to a greater or lesser degree) help many people remain injury free and make running more accesible to more people.

your sub 3:00 hour time, is it awesome enough

But theres sub 3 hrs and sub 3 hrs 😉

Hey SM, have you got any pictures of roads to show how good a runner you are? Y’know, like those pictures of the sea you put up recently 🙂

Quick check on boblo’s previous posts (who you ask? Yes I wondered too).

Every SINGLE stalker geek box ticked.

Stroll on laddio.

Next.

Surfer – pic not working. I ran with the mutt too – always fun.

Bingo! 🙂

I see – a victory through being an anonymous stalker nerd.

Interesting…