quick, change the subject.

See how he doesn’t like answering direct questions?

‘Quick, look in these tunnels over there! Here’s a pic of two people together’

He doesn’t have a problem with them at all.

Because I’m pretty sure he’s intelligent enough to know that really they are an irrelevance.

But they are a tool that he can use to make statements that make the CIA/USA sound complicit in something they had nothing to do with.

“The CIA paid Osama Bin Laden to build the tunnels”

Sounds like damning evidence against the CIA being part of a terror plot.

If your a complete idiot it does anyway 🙄

Similarly the statement

“The Carlyle Group had extensive business toes with the Bin Laden family”

Apart from the total exaggeration in using the work “extensive” considering the tiny investment the Bin Laden Group had invested in one single Carlyle fund.
$2m which made up 0.15% of the total fund
(Not 1.5% as I miss typed earlier)

But either way, so what ? The Bin Laden Group has investments all over the place, they are a big company.

It also fails to mention that the Bin Laden family had very publicly disowned Osama anyway. And he had nothing whatsoever to do with the Family or the Company at that time.

Regardless of the size of investment, for George HW Bush to visit the Bin Laden family twice on Carlyle Group matters, they must’ve had some fairly important business…

Guess you’re refering to this:

Still no word on Turki Bin Faisal though…

Feathered Cocaine

With some of the richest and most powerful men in the world visiting these falconry camps, the camps also attract some of the world’s most undesirable — like weapons smuggler and the inspiration for the movie, Lord of War, Viktor Bout, who was frequently a guest at royal falconry camps. But the most infamous guest was Osama bin Laden, who, for many years, made annual visits to the royal falconry camps in both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates during a time when he was already wanted around the world for mass murder. Former Saudi Ambassador, Prince Turki bin Faisal hunted with bin Laden often, and bin Laden was a VIP guest at the falconry camp organized by the former foreign minister from the U.A.E. bin Laden was so involved in falconry during the ‘90s and 2000s, that during the time he lived in Kandahar, Afghanistan, he stole most of the falcons from the surrounding tribes for his own personal use, giving the best birds as gifts to royal sheiks in the Emirates, and princes in Saudi Arabia.

Not forgetting of course that it was Turki bin Faisal’s sister (Bandar Bin Sultan’s wife) who was involved in money finding it’s way from the Riggs account set up by the UK paymaster general to the hijackers support network. [/quote]

Though it’s not a direct mention of the falconry camps, there is this Time Article:

(To clarify, that’s the same Turki Bin Faisal… his full name is actually Turki bin Faisal bin Abdulaziz Al Saud )

Now we are actually on to something Churchill was a supporter of a United Sates of Europe!

Anyway, back on topic

Serious question. You’re in a minority of one here. Why do you think that no one subscribes to your position or gives any weight to your evidence?

If anyone feels that there’s been new evidence or facts presented by JHJ that suggest any collusion between the US, Saudi and bin laden in relation to the planning on 9/11 then do speak up

From reading jives links , there were some connections between the Saudi Arabian Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia, some Saudis gave money to Bin Laden to secure a non aggression pact ie keep AQ out of Saudi Arabia. some Saudis may have known AQ were up to something big before 9/11 but not what so couldn’t/didn’t give a warning in advance and kept shtum afterwards. So no actual conspiracy other than the well known terrorist one, and nothing that people haven’t always assumed. In other news I’m starting to believe the pope is actually a catholic.

Good bit of brain storming if you ask me… learnt plenty of shizz I didn’t know before today 😉

Either the CIA plays amazingly long and subtle games to no obvious effect, or their actions in the short term sometimes have unintended consequences later.

Jive, just as a sort of social experiment.

Have you ever worked in a large Corporate organisation/entity, like a council or bank that employs 1000’s of people?

My theory is that if you’ve ever worked in that environment, the understanding that the sort of drive, cohesion, efficiency, long term vision required for any sort of group conspiracy such as would be demanded of the CIA over a 30 + year project to arrive at the point where you move people around the world like chess pieces in order to (say) direct catastrophic terrorist events, just is not possible. the staff churn, the difference visions in command, the day to day variables, the internecine department warfare, the politics just make that sort of thing fundamentally impossible. And it’s no really good enough to say “oh, but this is the CIA” they’ve shown over and over again how inefficient, disorganised and just plain wrong they are on a huge scale.

If you’ve worked in that environment, you realise very quickly how astonishing it is that just the day job gets done (and only then sometimes by the skin of their teeth)

My cousins husband lives out that way and sells goods to the Bin Laden family, does this mean I am now linked to 9/11?

Not only that, but now we’re all linked to 9/11.

Makes you think…

I was already linked – I once saw Dom Jolly do a spoken word thing, and he went to the same school as Osama. Damn me for my complicity with the horrific atrocities. 🙁

In that case you will fully understand the limitations of a large government organisation.

They couldn’t organise the proverbial piss up in a brewery. I worked for the MoD for 8 years and was amazed at the level of incompetence and buffoonery.If our defense organisations are efficient I would hate to see the shit ones.

Well you say that, but somehow vastly complex aircraft carriers get built, with materials and suppliers sourced from around the world, then once they become operational, staff are recruited, trained and put on duty, working as part of a larger team spanning the globe.

The people involved are all fed, dressed in uniform and paid etc etc.

All fuelling requirements of the ships and planes are taken care of, in addition to maintenance and consumables, be that hydraulic fluid, an engine part or a cruise missile.

That kind of thing can’t happen without some degree of organization…

so, let me get this straight: In your mind there’s little of no difference from people coming together to build a thing. To establishing a totally secret quasi governmental militarily capable extra judicial organisation that has a 30 year plus programme to destabilise the middle east and the USA in order to enrich an already vastly wealthy teeny group of American and Arab businessmen?

Is that about right..?

Aberporth Ned… wanted to get into engineering because of mountain biking funnily enough, was one of the few local(ish) opportunities of an apprenticeship available at the time.

Edit: Is Benbecula the one where SAS were training Mujahideen, or was that another facility in the outer Hebrides?

gotcha. fun while you were there?

Other question: No idea. why do you think I know?

Probably on account of the similar terrain and climate.