£5k budget for an e-bike. These discounted now, or sit tight.

Sort of hypothetical,  it assuming I have a bit of a cash back coming from the dodgy car finance claim, and a bit towards, £5k* seems to get a decent amount of sale bike.

for example,

https://www.freeborn.co.uk/cannondale-moterra-neo-sl-2-2024-tiger-shark-emtb?gad_source=4&gbraid=0AAAAAD-P_gbyDHDd50lasi8-0WStVM7eY&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyI-FsbLQigMVCJJQBh2TkA-YEAQYASABEgLzjPD_BwE

https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/trek-fuel-exe-99-x0-axs-electric-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2024-in-smoke__49685?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=5301030&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADKiiCJ61FiJ-iofpjXBxHaBsrt-C&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3-j7wLLQigMVmJlQBh3MdRUwEAQYASABEgKJUvD_BwE

https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/bikes/electric-bikes/whyte-e-lyte-150-rsx-electric-bike-2024-gloss-silvermatt-ud-carbon__406987?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=WEL150RSX1SV1&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD_XKbdp5aZ55go85V0IjOrIbMRSH&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Nr-4rPQigMVeZRQBh3LJQceEAQYASABEgLlAPD_BwE

Santa Cruz Heckler SL R Electric Carbon Mountain Bike 2024 – Matte Silver

Orbea Rise LT H20 2025 (630Wh)

All seem good bikes. Trek has a disadvantage on battery and motor limitation but I’ve seen one in the flesh and it looks really well put together. Fazua on the SC might be still an unknown quantity regarding warranty etc.  And should all e-bikes really be specced with a piggy back shock to cope with them extra loading.

what do we think is on the horizon, everyone looking at DJI for their next e-bike iteration?  Gearbox bikes?

*£5k, crazy money for a push bike. IMO.

There’s a thread about the trek, I posted on it about a week ago.

it got great reviews when launched and that model at that price is probably one of the best deals about for a very able and well equipped light e-bike.

Heckler SL S build £5.3k XL – if you stretched the extra £300 (and an XL fits you), the S build is worth the extra over the R build.

I bought one earlier this month when they were more heavily discounted (£4.5k). 19.7kg without pedals for a XXL on my scales. Can’t tell you what it rides like yet as delivered a few days before Christmas and I’ve been tweaking the build since then.

Trek has a disadvantage on battery and motor limitation

Disagree. Less is more the ‘SL’ ebikes, fazua, TQ, SL etc are so much nicer to ride. The fuel EXE is lovely.

Having similar thoughts as there’s some good deals round at the moment. Another option is the levo sl carbon now sub 4k (with discount code).

https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/specialized-turbo-levo-sl-comp-carbon-gen-2-full-suspension-electric-mountain-bike-2024-in-satin-doppiosand__48329

Disagree. Less is more the ‘SL’ ebikes, fazua, TQ, SL etc are so much nicer to ride. The fuel EXE is lovely.

Sorry to add my dissenting voice,  but less is less.

Much is made in the marketing about the SL’S not needing as much power or battery because they’re lighter, but theres a far wider variability in rider weights than there are between SLs and full power Eeb weights.

Having owned an SL and a full power, the differences in riding characteristics are over stated too presumably for the same marketing reasons.

IMO the only place for SL’s is for riders who want one for a bit of assist but still want to consider themselves riders. But then, they’re probably be served better by a full power one, but they don’t know it yet.

If I ‘had’ to pick a bike from that list, it would be the Whyte, as it’s probably the best all rounder with the best motor/battery/BMS.

My concern would be the endless industry rumour of Whyte being on the edge of implosion, which would make it a pain.

I wouldn’t consider anything with Shimano motors/batteries, the TQ stuff does have patchy reliability & the Fazua stuff is known for poor reliability too.

Sort of agree with  ScienceOfficer. Out of those I’d have the Trek, but only because it would be in addition to my full fat Moterra.

Isn’t there a recall on Cannondales?

Nope

I’m tempted but holding tight for now. It feels like the next big leap is just around the corner in maybe the near year or two. China is going to flood the market with cheap, high quality and well supported motors and batteries without the ‘Western brand’ tax that companies like Bosch stick on. You only have to look at the influx of cheap Chinese EV cars to see where the ebike market is going to go.

The thing is.  They’re all going to play up irrespective. It’s electronics in ‘British conditions’.

My take on this is buy new for warranty and support at a price to your liking, keep yourself a fund for the inevitable fixes and roll with it until it’s not viable or you sell it for peanuts second hand.

Waiting for a couple of years means you’ll certainly get more features, maybe a bit more reliability, and you’ll have missed a couple of years of great fun riding whilst pontificating.

what do we think is on the horizon

If I knew the exact answer, I’d be a rich man!

Joking aside though… Simply put… The market will continue to focus on more new tech… But crucially, just as happened with computer procession power back in the 90’s, the rate of improvement has already slowed down and will continue to slow down too… Processing power went from doubling every 12 months to 18, to 2yrs, then 3, in a decade. These days computer processing power barely doubles every 7-8yrs!

Geometry and suspension improvements have arguably plateaued, and these are the things that will affect how a bike rides more than any motor can.

Given the heavy deals on so many bikes right now, many with tech that is very nearly bang up to date (and at up to half price in many cases!), there hasn’t been a better time to invest in a high end bike for quite some time to be honest… These deals won’t last forever, manufacturers and retailers have had their fingers burnt with overstocks and the need to discount them to shift them, so the replacements for these discounted bikes will be far fewer in number as and when they hit the shops, to stop supply vastly outstripping demand as has happened since the COVID lockdowns ended.

If I ‘had’ to pick a bike from that list, it would be the Whyte, as it’s probably the best all rounder with the best motor/battery/BMS.

My concern would be the endless industry rumour of Whyte being on the edge of implosion, which would make it a pain.

I wouldn’t consider anything with Shimano motors/batteries, the TQ stuff does have patchy reliability & the Fazua stuff is known for poor reliability too.

Mostly would echo what HobNob says… I’d be a little more nuanced with my response about Shimano motors (they can be superb to ride, and you might be lucky and not have a problem with one if you are a sympathetic rider, but for pedal mashers and people not on first name terms with their LBS then walk away), but certainly from the bikes listed, the Whyte is the most up to date package and with the more appealing motor package.

That said… I wouldn’t buy any on that list myself…

No comment on the Whyte thing as I simply don’t know and it would be unprofessional to speculate. There’s certainly lots of struggling brands out there right now…

Sorry to add my dissenting voice,  but less is less.

2 years ago I’d have disagreed… These days, not so much.

I NEVER use Turbo on my eBike, but eMTB mode (Bosch CX Gen4) is fantastic. Most of the time I’m probably using quite a bit less than 50Nm of torque, but the moment you need it and you go to put that pedal stroke in, in eMTB mode the Bosch CX reacts and delivers exactly what you need. I have quite a high cadence pedalling style which is largely at odds with the CX’s delivery (it does mean my battery usage is quite efficient compared to most of my peers), I’ve ridden the SX motor brifely and it does feel more natural and intuitive and subjectively “nicer” when you’re feeling good…

The thing is though, how often do you feel your best on a bike? On an SL eBike, unless you’re riding on your own all the time (or only with others with SL’s), then you REALLY need to be on form to keep even moderate riders on full power eBikes in check most of the time. It used to be that a full power eBike meant at least 25kg, and more like 27-28kg with a decent sized battery, where SL eBikes were coming in under 18kg… Now SL eBikes are beefing up and full fat eBikes are getting lighter, the lines are blurring. For a 2-3kg weight penalty, there are now many full power eBikes with 600-800Wh batteries that will be very nearly as agile as the SL eBike, but have a lot more torque and battery capacity.

everyone looking at DJI for their next e-bike iteration?  Gearbox bikes?

Personally I think that for every 100 people shouting about how DJI have blown the eBike market apart, there’s possibly one person even considering buying one. OK so I am sure the tech behind the motor is incredibly impressive, but the only USP it has is the ability to get to the top of the hill faster than all your mates… A bit like buying an eBike just to beat your fit mates up the hill on their analogue bikes!

I just don’t think we need all that torque… Everyone else is settling on around 85-90Nm as being as much as anyone can reasonably use. OK so Rocky Mountain have had their Dyname motor with 108Nm for a number of years now, but they have hardly sold any of them… Whilst I’ll now concede that for most people, less is less when it comes to eBikes, I will still argue that more isn’t necessarily more too… There really is an optimum formula appearing for eBikes these days, and it seems to be 160ish travel, 64deg HA, 22-23kg in a decent but not super bling spec with an 85-90Nm motor and 600-800Wh of battery capacity. Hit all of those criteria and your bike will sell. Miss one or more, and though it will probably still have its fans, right at this moment it is unlikely to be a commercial success!

The thing is.  They’re all going to play up irrespective. It’s electronics in ‘British conditions’.

eBikes are the new dropper posts… Yes, they all have their faults, but we understand just how much better they have made the riding experience for a large number of us. Pick your poison, deal with its faults, be a dick about it on the internet and disparage everyone else who disagrees with you! It’s the law!!!

Waiting for a couple of years means you’ll certainly get more features, maybe a bit more reliability, and you’ll have missed a couple of years of great fun riding pontificating.

Agree entirely. Prices WILL go up too… I don’t mean RRP’s here, I mean the actual price you expect to pay. RRP’s are coming down after many brands quite simply took the piss during COVID, but the situation where currently the average punter can buy a bike for 10-20% less than the shop that sells those bikes can from the manufacturer, cannot continue… At least not whilst we have 3000+ LBS’ in the UK, all hoping to be able to make a living!

I’m tempted but holding tight for now. It feels like the next big leap is just around the corner in maybe the near year or two. 

Tech will always improve, but trust me when I say this, there won’t be a better time all market factors told, to buy a new eMTB than right now, not for quite some time…

China is going to flood the market with cheap, high quality and well supported motors and batteries without the ‘Western brand’ tax that companies like Bosch stick on.

Thing is, with so many heavily discounted bikes out there right now, there is no “western brand tax” at the typical sale price (vs retail price) at the moment… In many cases, with the heavy discounting right now, I can buy a 160mm travel enduro bike with say a typical Fox Performance and XT spec WITH A PREMIUM BRANDED MOTOR AND BATTERY now for roughly the same as one without!!!

Will be selling my very low mile Medium sized Orbea Wild M10 very soon for a very good price if anyone is interested (I’ve come to the conclusion that though I was between sizing, I should have gone for the Large after all)… There’s some 30% off deals on brand new Orbea Wilds right now to be fair, but this will be 1/2 new price essentially with only 250 miles on the clock… Apologies for the stealth ad!

I got my first ebike about 2 months ago after years of not being able to afford / wondering if the tech is good enough. If your scrimping £5k is a lot to invest in something that quite possibly will go wrong.

However They are brilliant! Wish I had got one sooner. I’ve gone down the salary sacrifice route so ended up paying h £4.5k ish

Personally I didn’t like the Whyte. Very capable bike, but to me it was a sofa ride ie it did it all and you just sat on it. I would have preferred a Levo SL but the battery and motor are outdated compared to the competition.

Interesting comments above about not needing power or wanting it. All I can say is I’m glad I got a bike with access to 85nm. I now get up stuff that was impossible on an analogue bike. The really boring tedious climbs are dispatched with quickly.

However an ebike has made me fitter than I have been in a while, whilst having lots of fun, which has to be a good thing ?

I’ve lost interest in getting one myself, but if I hadn’t then I’d go for one of the current hugely discounted options.

Was close to buying a full-power Mondraker with the Bosch CX motor, until I realised the seatpost insertion was very limited. Seemed like Bosch was the safest bet at the time.

I think there’s a few people confused about what the word invest means….

verb

1.put (money) into financial schemes, shares, property, or a commercial venture with the expectation of achieving a profit.

with the expectation of achieving a profit

Profit isn’t always monetary.

Sit tight for the winter months. Maintain your fitness, tweak your biking routines.

Earn interest on your £5k.

Buy an e bike with a motor and battery that complements you and your regular biking location? I live in a hilly area with potential for lots of climbing every ride. Local hills reach 450m and the valley bottoms are around 120m. No point for me to buy an e bike without a full power tuneable motor and a big battery. I’m a cross country rider, jumping rarely features and trail centre visits are few and far between.

I’m in a holding position for an e bike purchase but I reckon I’ll join in later in the year? Early or late summer with the time in between trying to ride my analogue bikes and keeping an eye on the options.

For the bigger question of buy now or sit tight – there is always something better on the horizon, that wont change, there will always be the prospect of something better, regardless of what you buy. You could wait for the next thing and miss out on 6 months/1 year/2 years etc of quality riding, or (if something that meets your needs is available now for a price you can afford) you can buy now and start having fun.

From that list – I’d go for the whyte – bosch are a safe choice , big dealer network, known good at dealing with warranty issues, bike spec looks great, good geo, good reviews

The trek looks great value (and I know it rides well because I have one) , but unless you really value some attribute of the motor system – maybe the removable battery is key, or the silence or maybe the fact that the range extender size mean you can take it on planes – then the motor is quite weak in terms of power , compared to the competition these days, and the main battery on the small side – I say that as the owner of a trek fuel exe. I do value its unique attributes, so I personally would probably get the trek (actually I’d probably get the slash+) , but would do so knowing it wasnt the most powerful with the biggest range. The TQ system itself is on par with the more reliable motor systems in my experience.

The fazua motor would make me worry – too many tales of failure still happening.

The shimano motor does appear to be improved in terms of reliability these days, so maybe the cannondale is the wildcard choice…

I think there’s a few people confused about what the word invest means…

Not at all. Everyone knows you loose huge amounts of money on an ebike

I’ve invested a lot of time earning money to be able to afford one. The profit that it’s returned for me is more smiles per mile than an analogue bike would give me , and improved health . So actually a really good investment for me

Julians – odly the Whyte Bosch motor was the only one that through a wobbly and went in to limp mode when I tested a few bikes. It also had a very annoying noise that came from it when you stopped peddling.

For the bigger question of buy now or sit tight – there is always something better on the horizon, that wont change

100% this. That’s why it’s so important to test ride as many as you can to find the one you enjoy riding. Then the minute you buy stop reading reviews as your bike is already out of date…. Especially if it takes 6 months to get your bike like it dies with Orbea

Having owned an SL and a full power, the differences in riding characteristics are over stated too presumably for the same marketing reasons.

Add me to the list of the sceptical. Specialized try to market the SL as some sort of e-bike for non e-bikes by means of a real whiff of ego to appeal to MTB gods. Reality is the motor is 500g lighter but the battery is lighter because it’s much smaller.

For the average Joe the weight makes zero difference apart from lugging over a gate and the SL is no light weight anyway. Saying that you shouldn’t discount the Turbo Levo from the list as it’s a great bike and some large discounts to be had.

Heckler SL owner here. My first ebike and it is great fun. I’ve not felt the need for more power apart from when I’ve been out with folk on full power mtbs. Two things though … when will the range extender turn up? and the walk mode is useless.

The main reason I went for an SL bike is the ability to actually lift the bike over fences and the like.

I am a long time Santa Cruz owner (since the original blur came out) and really value the service support, ease of maintenance and sensible design choices (threaded bottom brackets are worthwhile). Plus they come in XXL, which it appears very few emtbs come in.

I would consider a 2nd emtb that is full powered, but that will probably go away when Fazua finally comes out with a range extender.

Great comments, food for thought.

The elephant in the room is that I haven’t ever ridden an e-bike in anger, just had a quick go on a Gen1 orbea rise and an even quicker car park ride on a spesh very early gen model stimepjumper thing.

So all this is purely hypothetical, I would need to sort some test rides out as despite my lusting for the EXe, it might not suit me.

Also, good point re the terrain. I’m in the very steep sided Calder Valley where any route requires a steep climb, and ideally, I’d like an e-bike to be able to at least easily help up a couple of valley side ascents.  All my riding mates have the Orbea Rise, which I think is 60Nm, and they have range extenders.

Disclaimer also, swayed towards the Cannondale as I’ve had one since 2004, a Jekyll with a lefty, then got a crazy bargain carbon Habit in 2017. Neither bike has missed a beat and been anything other than utterly dependable, so I do have faith in their products, despite the Shimano motor. Albeit another lad I sometimes ride with has a Nukeproof which I think has a Shimano motor and has had 2000 miles this year without a hiccup.

Also, good point re the terrain. I’m in the very steep sided Calder Valley where any route requires a steep climb, and ideally, I’d like an e-bike to be able to at least easily help up a couple of valley side ascents. All my riding mates have the Orbea Rise, which I think is 60Nm, and they have range extenders.

all the bikes you listed will manage that with no problem at all.

despite my lusting for the EXe, it might not suit me

I was talking to my pal who has one yesterday. He said it’s best for short rides – like two or three hours – but the battery isn’t up to longer ones (and he’s very fit & light).

So if you’re looking to do long rides in Calderdale it may not be the best choice due to the smaller battery (and steep climbs)?

I was very anti-ebike until I rode my mates Levo SL and it was hilariously fun. I bought a regular Levo as it was a good deal and that’s even more fun. While the Chinese might be about to flood the market with amazing bikes I doubt they’ll be selling anything that beats that Raymon at Paul’s that’s going for £2k.

I was talking to my pal who has one yesterday. He said it’s best for short rides – like two or three hours – but the battery isn’t up to longer ones (and he’s very fit & light).

I’d agree with that.

I will typically get about 2600-3000 feet of climbing out of the main battery on my fuel exe, using a mix of the modes.

If I leave it in max mode, it could be as low as 2200 feet climbing, or if I really put a whole load of effort in myself (so no assist on the flats, downhills and gentle uphills, eco mode turned down a lot ) then I can get about 4000 feet out of it,maybe 4500.

The range extender is good for about 1300 feet of climbing on its own , so combined with the main battery you’ll get 3600-4000 feet typically.

I have had 2800 feet out of just the range extender when I took it to spain (via a flight, so had to leave the main battery at home.)

If something new and amazing does come out, I wouldn’t by it until it’s been out a couple of years at least to see if any issues arise.

So buy now is my advice.

Figures wise, a typical route currently is 25km with 550/600m (1800ft) climbing.

My last “big ride” was the CVMBC, topped out at 47km with 1350m of climbing. So a “SL” may have struggled to see me round that on boost, but perhaps a gentle assist would have been enough just to help?  I don’t want to be Surroning around trails. Mate did it on his Rise with the rangey and was fresh at the end with plenty of battery.

Figures wise, a typical route currently is 25km with 550/600m (1800ft) climbing.

That’d be no problem for any of them – could use max power all the way round.

My last “big ride” was the CVMBC, topped out at 47km with 1350m of climbing. So a “SL” may have struggled to see me round that on boost, but perhaps a gentle assist would have been enough just to help? I don’t want to be Surroning around trails. Mate did it on his Rise with the rangey and was fresh at the end with plenty of battery.

That would require a range extender plus a bit of “managing your usage” on the fuel exe , it would be possible on the main battery only, but you’d be using so little assist it wouldnt be much easier than just doing on a regular bike , but it does all depend on loads of variables, so its hard to be black and white about it.

It does depend how you use them.

On my Heckler with 720Kwh battery, I’ve done as little as 30km and 1400m climbing to a flat battery, which was coombe bashing all the technical and steep stupid shit I could find.

Equally, I’ve done 55km wye valley tour days with analogue riders where I’ve ridden 1900m and still had 34% battery left.

At least with a full power eeb you can turn down it’s capability. On an SL, that upper power level is simply not available.

all the bikes you listed will manage that with no problem at all.

I slightly disagree all the above will help you get up.

I always thought I would want low power, but no power helps. Why slog up a big road climb (which you have to on most of the above ) when you can just sit there and breeze up.

Other examples is when you have done 30+ miles 4,500ft of climbing, these bikes are heavy and with 50/60nm you still end up knackered/broken on that last hard climb

Currently 20kg and full power appears to be the sweet spot

As to the Rise needing range extender, I’m yet to exhaust the battery before I’m exhausted that’s with stats like the above.

Couple of days back I rode up Cadair Idris in the morning and then still had enough battery to do the Climach X trail at full boost before it went dark. Still had 25% battery left

IMO natural riding suits (XC) lower power but trail centres or areas with steep ups suit having the power available. I wouldn’t buy a bike now that couldn’t do both

The only downside of power that I have seen at the minute is that I am not hitting my absolute max heart rate as much. But I have a road bike for less fun riding

I slightly disagree all the above will help you get up.

Depends how steep it is I guess. I have a trek fuel exe and a full power orbea wild fs.  It’s only the very steepest pitches that the wild fs will get up that the Trek exe won’t, and once you’re at a level of steepness that the wild fs won’t get up either then idmuch rather be pushing/carrying the fuel exe than the wild fs.

There are a couple of sections on cadair idris that had me pushing on the exe, but are rideable on the wild fs.

But on snowdon, the bits that are rideable on the wild fs are all rideable on the fuel exe, the unridable bits are unridable for both.

For me, It’s really rare that something is unridable on the fuel exe but is rideable on the wild fs.

I hardly ever ride my wild fs these days, 98% of my riding is on the fuel exe, but thats probably because the people I ride with the most are also on lower power ebikes, i reckon if they were riding full power bikes then I would too.

I definitely prefer how the fuel exe (at 20kg with range extender, 19kg without) rides compared to the wild fs at 24kg.

A full power bike with strong tyres, decent fork (fox 38/zeb), strong wheels  with a decent size battery all weighing in at 20kg sounds great, but I reckon it’ll end up at least 22kg,possibly more like 23kg  when configured in a solid spec with decent tyres.

Trek Fuel EXe reviewed (finally)

I’ve got a Kenevo SL and a Rail, both burly builds. The KSL is 20kg, the Rail is 26.5. I have absolutely no interest in technical climbs and the eeb is for getting me up the fire road in the best condition for blasting down the trails.
The KSL is in a different league when it comes to the plummet part of the ride and 35Nm is enough even for a fatty like me.

Currently 20kg and full power appears to be the sweet spot

How many full power eebs actually weigh that though? We’re not going to see any significant reductions in weight until there’s a breakthrough in battery tech.

Of the bikes in the OP I’d have either the SC or the Whyte but in reality there’s currently nothing on the market that would tempt me to replace the KSL

How many full power eebs actually weigh that though? We’re not going to see any significant reductions in weight until there’s a breakthrough in battery tech.

Amflow, Cannondale, Orbea Rise ?

So nothing like a KSL then.

So nothing like a KSL then.

not everyone wants or needs an enduro type bike though, and in reality power is only needed for climbing or fast singletrack where you could argue an enduro bike is the wrong tool anyhow

My last “big ride” was the CVMBC, topped out at 47km with 1350m of climbing. So a “SL” may have struggled to see me round that on boost, but perhaps a gentle assist would have been enough just to help?  I don’t want to be Surroning around trails. Mate did it on his Rise with the rangey and was fresh at the end with plenty of battery.

I think I would probably get round that on my Rise LT 630wh if I changed the tyres to more XC style as let’s face it , that route is hardly technical and could easily be done on a CX bike. There is just lots of dull climbing. However I probably would leave the Rise LT at home for that as it would be so over biked

Surroning – I get where your coming from , but until you try a full power it can be difficult to understand the benefits.

Llandegla is local to me so the first horrible tedious climb is dispatched in full power and doing 2 laps. You session sections repeatedly, I don’t know what it’s called but there’s 1 jump line with a fire road climb at the side of it. Some push up, some are knackered, lower power eeebs are still breathing by the top, full powers can just do it repeatedly with ease .

A trail centre comes with another dimension with full power.

As I’ve said above though natural trails imo do still feel better with less power.

I changed from a whyte E160 to a Cube Stereo Hybrid ONE44 HPC SLX 800 Mountain Bike 2025
Lovely bike to ride although I feel it not all mounting in its handling, large battery goes for miles and good app for adjusting the power settings.

https://www.jejamescycles.com/product/132764860/cube-cube-stereo-hybrid-one44-hpc-slx-800-fs-mountain-bike-2025/

New owner of a Moterra SL here, so no idea on reliability yet as it’s only a month old. It descends and traverses superbly as expected with the head angle in the steep position of 63.7! Not even tried the 62.5 degree setting. Full power is excellent for quickly blasting up to the downhills and then you have the option of using eco or trail 1 for long trail rides. I am comfortably getting 1500 metres of climbing over 50k with a little bit of battery left in Trail 1 here in the forest of dean. It’s not a silent e bike but isn’t overly noisy either, not much more noise than friends on Levo SL’s but the bike is way more capable up and down for pretty much the same weight/cost. Charge port cover is fiddly and annoying however. It is my first e bike and so far so good. Any questions happy to answer.