Home Forums Chat Forum 2013/14 Rugby Thread

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  • 2013/14 Rugby Thread
  • toys19
    Free Member

    yes on reflection, I think we should both edit that right now…

    IdleJon
    Free Member

    toys19 – Member

    I don’t do excuses, we either win or we don’t, if we do we are awesome, if we don’t we are not awesome.

    Shouldn’t that be in the thread about motivational quotes on top-tubes?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    there is no try

    they should have said that to Ashton!

    toys19
    Free Member

    I don’t think anyone is going to argue about that AA.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    AA is the self appointed rugby expert on here who is sucked up to by most people, and thinks he has “an understanding of rugby” which is greater than everyone else’s.
    A large proportion of the other participants are also Non England supporters, the remainder are made up of England supporters who dare not argue with the great AA as he has more clever sounding phrases in his armoury.
    A few are idiots like me who waste their breath trying to counter the PoMo rubbish that is spouted on here about Rugby.

    this is funny because I mostly just seem to get abuse, from he who shall not be named and you. Like being arrogant for suggesting it was kind of obvious Wales would lose to SA, wasnt that what you said?
    I’d be more than happy to consider anything I’ve said about the England team that is untrue or in anyway racist, biggotted or rude. Problem is people like yourself and he who shall not be named have quite odd views which mostly seem to be based on what you think I say rather than what I’ve actually said.

    geologist
    Free Member

    I have just got off a flight to abu dhabi, I was sat next to the captain of the Papua New Guinea rfl team. The rest of his team were in cattle class, he was next to me in business! Hmmmmm

    toys19
    Free Member

    . Like being arrogant for suggesting it was kind of obvious Wales would lose to SA, wasnt that what you said?

    No I said you were arrogant for assuming you had “rugby knowledge” that seems to trump everyone elses. I did not say you were rascist, or bigotted, you are rude but I do not really object to that as its much more subjective.

    toys19
    Free Member

    This is based on an understanding of rugby. I’ll love it if they win but it’ll be a shock. I fail to see how anyone who understands the game could be any more than hopeful of a welsh win. Could you explain how you think a wales team who havent beaten anyone any good for ages will beat the second best team in the world.

    I think these in bold show terrible arrogance, nothing to do with your conclusions, you just basically dismissed the other guy by insinuating your knowledge trumped his.
    PS you wanted it to go back to the rugby, I agree, I’m only answering your question..

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    anagallis_arvensis – Member
    Tuilagi could miss six nations according to Beeb. Same injury as Davies.

    A futile attempt to steer the discussion in the direction of rugby ! Big loss for England but I’d rather see him back fully fit in 6 months ahead of the RWC. Still a full season to get back his sharpness.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Wales have beaten SA once and drawn once in all games v SA since international matches have been played. The bookies had SA as favourites as they are the second best team in the the world. The welsh team without Roberts its much weaker. It hardly takes a rugby genius to put all this together and predict a welsh loss yet a number of the england fans see this as some sort of reverse psychology effect and love to talk up wales, without realising that beating England in Cardiff isnt a massive achievement.

    So explain to me how anyone who understands the game could have been any more than hopeful of a welsh win?

    toys19
    Free Member

    It is not anything to do with your conclusion, the rest of us were being fanciful anyway as you well know.
    Frankly the above statement just adds to my general impression that you feel you know best. I.E. you imply that if you disagree then you obviously do not have an understanding of rugby, it’s an informal logical fallacy known as poisoning the well. and it serves to destroy the discussion.

    As dezb said

    DezB – Member
    “An understanding of rugby” means you can’t predict what will happen!

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    An understanding of rugby” means you can’t predict what will happen!

    and yet I did!

    toys19
    Free Member

    Yah, as someone else said it is hedging your bets, you had a 50/50 chance of getting it right. It was and is pretty obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of rugby, or based on statistics, form or even black box/neural net input and response learning that SA are most likely to win. That is not my point.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @aa – well I for one expected Wales to lose to SA (too big an ask coming into the match without much preparation whereas SA had a great 4-nations). What I cannot understand is your lack of confidence in beating Australia.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    As I’ve said we played them 240 000 times last season and lost. Losing Adam means our scrum will be shit as the back up is Andrews who is shit and he might be broken next cab off the rank is Lee but he hasnt the fitness for international rugby… Longer term he might be the answer though. We have also lost our midfield boshers and Gatland has never shown any hint of a plan B in this regard.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    It was and is pretty obvious to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of rugby, or based on statistics, form or even black box/neural net input and response learning that SA are most likely to win

    wasnt that my shockingly arrogant point. You really need to step up your debating skills.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Soooo.
    Predictions on scores?

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Wales by 10
    NZ by 15
    France by 20
    Ireland by 5
    Italy by 7
    SA by 20

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Can’t be too far out. No surprises then?

    Tom-B
    Free Member

    Argies by 3
    Saffas by 15+
    ABs by 10

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Wales are more than capable of losing.
    Fiji Italy could be close as Ireland Aus.
    I was shocked when NZ got beat by England last year so who knows.

    Tom-B
    Free Member

    Oh I thought that it was Ireland v SA….in that case I’m going Aussie by 7 and a quick Google shows that the Saffas are playing Scotland….I’m with you a_a 20 plus victory for SA!

    toys19
    Free Member

    I dunno about the others, but based on form, I fully expect NZ to win by 25+ points. England have looked underwhelming and have beaten only piss poor teams.
    This is based on a hunch.
    AA, we were all surprised, is there anybody out there that thinks England have a chance? Convince me..

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Rancid

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    DanW
    Free Member

    Just watched the ScrumV highlights and discussion of the Wales game and apparently Jon Davies made more meters in 12 minutes before his injury than anyone else in the rest of the team all game 😯

    Wales have had one plan for a very long time. With the right players available they can beat anyone. Question is, can they get a more subtle plan B in operation before the 6N?

    What does Hook have to do to get a start, be it at 10 or in the centres? Looking at the backs available you feel there is a big lack of depth there… then you realise this guy called Hook is still floating around being massively underused. With players like Beck likely to start there is massive potential for a non-bosh, high skill approach yet perhaps less than 1% chance of a game plan involving playing intelligently.

    With the injuries it is also a chance to bring Scott Williams on much in the same way Jon Davies developed in the National set up. Davies didn’t look anywhere near international level for his first half dozen games but has improved hugely. The Scarlets tout Williams as the next big thing after Davies, stronger than a prop, quicker than a winger… so lets see it happen 😀

    Is Biggar really any better than Priestland? I can see both making the same errors Priestland did against SA 😕 Neither are truely world class. Hmmm…

    North in the centres seems a waste just to maintain bosh plan A. Bit of a lack of wingers in Wales too should he switch 😕

    Forwards look pretty solid though and maybe Wales will miss Adam less now than ever before? Backs seem to be the main concern but maybe others disagree 😕

    Pigface
    Free Member

    10 is an issue in Wales, I would prefer Biggar over Priestland but that maybe be down to him being an Osprey, neither are world class.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Hook at 10 for me. Always wanted to see that. Biggar or Priestland on the bench, and then Hook can move to the centre or 15 if needed. 1/2p can play wing or 15, so there’s lots of flexibility that way.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    toys19 – Member
    … is there anybody out there that thinks England have a chance? Convince me…

    If it pisses down, with lightning and hail and everything, the pitch turns into a bog and we are limited to up ya jumper rugby, and England retain over 60% posession, they have a chance.

    The forecast is “Sunny”. Arse. I’m with Toys19 on the score, approx 20pts by the AB’s – something like 31-12 final score.

    IdleJon
    Free Member

    The Scarlets tout Williams as the next big thing after Davies, stronger than a prop, quicker than a winger… so lets see it happen

    The Scarlets tout every one of their players as bigger, better, faster, etc. Always have. Sometimes they are right, more often they are talking rubbish. Scott Williams is very good, though.

    Is Biggar really any better than Priestland?

    Yes. Didn’t you watch Priestland at the weekend? Indecisive, lacking the skill to pull off the moves he tried, lacking control. He kicked poorly – criminal when playing against Steyn – and didn’t make space for his outer backs. Biggar may be slightly less creative than Priestland but at least these days he knows how to play within his limits. And behind the Welsh pack – and Phillips – Priestland should have no excuses about being poor. Priestland basically played well internationally for about 4 games 2 years ago and is living off that reputation.

    North in the centres seems a waste just to maintain bosh plan A. Bit of a lack of wingers in Wales too should he switch

    The way I heard it, they weren’t talking about playing North in the centre, just that he should be playing into the centre looking for ball and tying up defenders. Rather than standing on the wing looking like a lemon as he did last weekend.

    And as far as Hook getting a game? He doesn’t fit in with Wales’ style of play. In fact he doesn’t fit in with most teams’ style of play which is why he is labelled utility. He can sit on the same bench as Cipriani, Quade Cooper as far as I’m concerned. Exciting to watch simply because he could win or lose the game with one movement.

    DanW
    Free Member

    No denying Williams quality but I feel it could be an opportunity for him to come more to the forefront of the squad much in the same way Jon Davies developed very quickly. Once upon a time the idea of JD getting passed the ball to clear from the 22 caused heart rates in Wales to go up, now he is the very useful left foot option to clear the lines Wales will miss (just one small example of the way in which the National side can turn around aspects of play with the right coaching and new roles in a team).

    Priestland has been off form but has been overcoming two massive injuries which is tough. Biggar is no better but no worse really. Priestland does a fair amount in defence too which gets overlooked but at the end of the day neither were going to out boss Steyn. Who know what goes in to making an apparently arbitrary decision 😀 I do feel a bit sorry for Biggar though. Flood/ Farrel isn’t so wildly different I suppose

    The North talk is that he might switch to the centres mid way through the match whereas, as you say Jon, the ideal is perhaps to keep him on the wing but be used more infield during attacking play. The number of big backs is decreasing with injury so making the most of smart players like Beck and Hook to actually use the few remaining big, strong running backs isn’t too illogical, just unlikely to happen 😕

    duckman
    Full Member

    North would be harder to mark if he was coming in on broken phase,rather than lining up at centre every play. (Not that marking someone that size and speed can really be defined as easy)He was under used on Sat,certainly bearing in mind how much damage he is capable of.

    DanW
    Free Member

    Completely agree Duckman!

    IdleJon
    Free Member

    Who know what goes in to making an apparently arbitrary decision

    Hmmm,

    – The player who steered the team through the most recent championship win? Whose main fault currently is that his regional team aren’t playing particularly well but even when played out of position at 15 managed to look classy?

    – Or the obviously talented player who is totally lacking confidence, playing time and fitness?

    It’s not at all arbitrary to me, but then thankfully I don’t have to make these decisions! 😆

    edit: Biggar’s played 18 caps, lost 7. Priestland has 23, lost 12. It doesn’t prove anything of course, just an interesting stat. 😛

    toys19
    Free Member

    North would be harder to mark if he was coming in on broken phase,rather than lining up at centre every play. (Not that marking someone that size and speed can really be defined as easy)He was under used on Sat,certainly bearing in mind how much damage he is capable of.

    I have only really seen him against England so I dunno if mine is a fair assessment, but he was vaunted as the new awesome centre and has so far failed to deliver as much as expected, he has not scored against us in recent memory, if at all?. Or to put it another way, he is not as intimidating as he was made out to be, he just seems to be a battering ram. If Shane got the ball I used to hide behind the sofa. Perhaps North still has time to come. (Bet he scores the effen winning try against us in the 6N now)

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Toys he’s a three test lions tour and grand slam winning WINGER age 21 who has scored about 14 tries in 35 tests. But he has failed to deliver cause he hasnt scored against england! Priceless.

    toys19
    Free Member

    As usual you failed to read anything anyone says and just let your prejudice get in the way. Of course nobody can make a comment about a welsh player unless they are either agreeing with you, welsh, or just you.

    I clearly framed my statement with:

    I have only really seen him against England so I dunno if mine is a fair assessment

    I’m only interested in him if he is a threat to us, so far not.

    Compare him with Chris Ashton, who has scored at least twice against Wales, has scored 85 international points in union, 12 international points in league, jointly holds the six nations record for tries in a single tournament (with Shane I think?) and is, by your assessment, crap.

    I had faith in Ashton up until about a year ago, I don’t think he is that great, nor has he delivered as expected, in fact I hold him in the same regard as North, both been bigged up by their nation and failed to deliver. It does not take any of your fabulous “rugby knowledge” to say that, just a quick google of the facts.

    You are such a schoolyard bully. I was trying to join in the conversation and all you can do is shoot people down.You wonder why people get pissed off with you. Go and boil your head.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Common issue; New player with “unique” or “exceptional” skills falls into the international scene, makes unprecedented performances within the first few games, then appears to diminish.

    2 things – form and excitement, and the other teams work them out and how to play against them – aka nullified to a degree.

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    Christ Toys you really need to grow and look at what your saying. Remind me what other 21 yearolds have 35 caps including 3 lions caps and have scored almost a try every other game. Your analysis is like something a 14 year old would come out with. If you want to debate rugby on a rugby thread maybe you should say something sensible rather than come out with the same old jingoistic clap trap. There’s many things wrong with welsh rugby but North failing to deliver isnt one of them.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    There’s F All wrong with North. He’s an exceptional player, but like all wingers relies massively on being given opportunities by his team mates so that he can properly utilise his frankly remarkable skill with the ball in hand. Actually a lot of outside centres rely on much the same service, you can see when Manu (who has a similarly exceptional talent) plays well, he’s been given the chances.
    When either has a quiet game, it’s usually not them you need to point the finger at.

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