Atleast its something rather than nothing. The issues is not always pay related to keep staff happy but it helps in the short term.

NHS and teachers deserve more. So do the shop workers on min wage who are supported by in-work benefits that are just a business subsidy in another form. So do the post office guys. How does a government redress the balance? Idk.

Labour are the party of total ineptitude.

I suspect Labour are thinking better on the general topic than the Tories ever did though, since trickle-down economics is a BS idea. I wasn’t expecting them to ace everything from the start but if they are totally inept, well, we’re no worse off than under the corrupt, self-serving tories. Perhaps still better off if they’re not sneaking all that money off to their buddies in business – as was the tory way.

AWE (official measure of wage inflation) for the year to Nov 2024 was 4.3% across all employees but that includes last years pay rises (at least for those who have received them) so it would be recursive to base this years increase on last years numbers.

private sector here – and we have just decided that we will not make any increase this year.  That is probably going to go down like a lead balloon.

I’ll be honest as cost of living increases go, for public sector employees 2.8% seems OK, perhaps even more generous than I would expect.  That doesn’t necessarily mean I think we have the right salary levels to recruit and retain key professions – but I think that is a job specific question rather than a public sector wide percentage calculation.   One aspect that doesn’t really make sense to me about a lot of public sector pay is that SOME people seem to progress on a grades/points system and earn more without necessarily being any better at the job / producing better outcomes.   As with all sectors of course you also manage to promote people out of jobs they were good at into roles they are not so that they can earn more!

the BoE are expecting AWE over the next 12 months to be under 3%, marginally above RPI/CPI, so I think anyone expecting increases >3% is likely optimistic.

@matt_outandabout

3. The NHS deal is on top of some spectacular rises for those at the top end of earning last year?

Not for us GPs.

AIUI this is HMG’s submission to the independent pay review bodies rather than the actual offer?

The unions have yet to make their submission, after which we will get into the usual fun of people threatening to withdraw from the process, threats of IA, actual IA, etc.

From a Keynesian POV spending money on public sector pay is good for the economy…

@matt_outandabout Can’t comment on teaching but the NHS in Scotland, Wales and NI is devolved, and while NHS pay awards were high last year, that’s on top of over a decade of pay erosion. What NHS staff do now is not worth substantially less in real terms than it was in 2008, which is resulting in a brain drain (and in NI, the issue where people go and work on the other side of the border for substantially more money).

And then they wonder why they can’t retain GPs?

Isn’t the GP issue in part down to the nature of their contract?

They aren’t “NHS”, they’re a private business that the NHS pays £x per person that registers with them.  Which then means the surgery has a budget of £x * number of patients for the year, so if a GP want’s a salary of whatever it is then that ends up being cut to a smaller number of hours. Anecdotally most round here seem to work part time, but across multiple clinics because the businesses can’t afford them full time.

A bit like academy schools, in principle they are free to pay more to attract better teachers to failing schools.  In reality there’s not actually any more money for that.

I think we got 3% this year, private sector. Sounds ungrateful but after tax and increased student loan payments the difference is barely noticeable, probably equates to how much our council tax bill has gone up by since last year so I guess it covers that at least? But none of the countless other stuff that has gone up in cost since then.

@thisisnotaspoon

You are partly correct, although pay scales for salaried GPs are set by the DDRB and practices are supposed to adhere to it.

Practice remuneration is set by the annual contract uplift, and as far as I know, there’s not been any announcement on that, but it’s not looking promising.

Anyway, my two hospital doctor friends that I ski with are getting paid 20% more on their already quite generous hospital contracts, and I am not.

for public sector employees 2.8% seems OK

Just to highlight that this is better than most public sector workers will be getting!  I work at a uni and got 2.5% this year.

2.8% is ok for this year, as a standalone figure – inflation for 2024 seems to work out to around 2.5% for the year so on that front, it’s not too bad.  It’s just that teachers (indeed, most people – but especially the public sector) are already well on the back foot after the last years where inflation averaged 9% and 7%.

In my corner of the public sector, wages are down about 10% in real terms just since 2020, and the slide has been a lot longer than that. I’m worried I’ll lose some good team members soon, because what was a fairly decently paid job in 2014  is now not far above minimum wage.

Anyway, my two hospital doctor friends that I ski with are getting paid 20% more on their already quite generous hospital contracts, and I am not.

Gosh, that’s terrible. You poor thing!

Anyway, my two hospital doctor friends that I ski with are getting paid 20% more on their already quite generous hospital contracts, and I am not.

If money is tight, perhaps you could cut back on the skiing holidays? Most shop workers have cut their skiing holidays right back

We’re in a position that the climate has been drawn by all parties that there is no money (bullshit) to do things –

I don’t think there’s a conspiracy going on. But happy to hear different. UK deficit

The NHS deal is on top of some spectacular rises for those at the top end of earning last year?

Not Mrs FD.  I wish it was. It depends on individual circumstances ie when you became a consultant etc.

They still need to sort out the tax situation. It’s ok Labour saying they will reduce waiting list by putting on extra clinics , but the fact is many consultants are reducing their work as they don’t want to go to work to loose money.

besides will there be any inflation next year? Labour appears to be doing everything in its power to stagnate the economy

They’ve got 14 years of legislation that’s designed to move money into the pockets of the rich and make sure the poor stay poor to untangle. And a £750 billion deficit to deal with.

This needs pointing out far more frequently, whether on here, or in the press/Question Time etc (probably by themselves, tbh).

They’ve only just got in power, and there’s a lot of shit to deal with.

I’m not even a Labour voter – but **** me, people seem to forget the shower of shits who’ve run the country (into the ground) for the past 14 yrs.

Well the 2.8% increase will help my teacher wife to continue paying for glue sticks and other resources that she gets because her school can’t/wont.

Well said @hungrymonkey

And lolz at someone whose doctor ski buddies are feeling upset over wage erosion.

@matt_outandabout – I’ll bear that in mind when you’re moaning about not being able to see a GP or access NHS healthcare.

Yeah. I have a friend who trained, worked for a year or two here in GP practices and NHS hospitals then took a much better paid job in New Zealand with more time off and his visa, resettlement and residency costs were paid by his employer who are actually grateful for the work he does and fight to retain him. I can’t say I blame him to be honest. I don’t subscribe to the view that people working for the NHS should accept worse pay and conditions just because it’s a public service job, that isn’t how our world works.

Re doctors pay, giving them bigger payrises is just enabling them to go part time / retire earlier thus reducing capacity overall making the existing issues worse – it won’t make them ‘happy’ they aren’t on the breadline so its not a material impact in that sense.

I would far rather the money was invested in making the job less shit.  Increase the capacity of doctors, by doing things like fully funding medical degrees.  More doctors, more to share the load, less stress.  They don’t have huge debts they need to recover etc….

I have a similar view on teaching and nursing, though neither of those roles is earning well above national average and you don’t see them retiring earlier o.  The money needs to be invested in the infrastructure first.

Everyone wants more money.  I’m down 10% in real terms over the last 4 years.  I know no-one who gets anywhere near the supposed wage growth figures that are banded about every year.  I can only assume a large chunk of it is due to people changing employers