[Closed] Updated Highway Code discussion on Radio 5

Do you honestly think those two machines should be operated on the same licence?

Yes, because they're operating under the same rules - the speed limits and rules are the same for both. You've passed your driving test as some sort of proof that you understand what those rules are and that you can operate competently within them. "Machine" choice is up to you.

Getting a faster car doesn't entitle you to higher speed limits - this is where a lot of our "driving gods" get it wrong.

If you want to be unfettered, get a powerboat (as pointed out above). No requirement for training or insurance, just put your money down and tear off into the wild blue yonder.

For the same reason that you don’t pass your PPL in a Cessna then go out and buy a Learjet

Not quite. A Learjet has two engines. You can however fly a Spitfire on a Single Engine Piston PPL immediately after gaining a PPL. You might struggle to take off and land, since one is a taildragger. You can also buy and fly the prop equivalent of a Learjet, A Pilatus PC-12.

Additional instruction might, however, be helpful in both instances.

The issues will only go away once automated cars are mainstream, and manually operated cars become so expensive to insure they are relegated to the realm of the weekend track day hobbyist.

That day can't come too soon, and I say that as a cyclist, and a driver and as a pedestrian.

You can however fly a Spitfire on a Single Engine Piston PPL immediately after gaining a PPL

Do you not have to do a type rating for the Spitfire first? I remember my colleague who was a commercial qualified helicopter pilot having to do one for every model of helicopter he flew, so R22/44 was one, and the Cabri was another, despite them both being piston engines.

We obviously have different licences already, motorbike, car, HGV and some subdivision based on power, weight or gearbox

Wouldn't have any issue with car being further subdivided by some factor. In some ways surprised insurance company's and other interested parties have not pushed this as a revenue stream.

All of this just shows how important Ogmios' work is - we need the Zenway Code now

Do younot have to do a type rating for the Spitfire first?

Not if you own it. Type approval might be for insurance purposes when it's someone else's. Pass your driving test in a micra and then take out that Ferrari...

tillydog

Yes, because they’re operating under the same rules – the speed limits and rules are the same for both. You’ve passed your driving test as some sort of proof that you understand what those rules are and that you can operate competently within them. “Machine” choice is up to you.

So I assume you would be happy for the 3 or 4 stages of motor bike licences to be just 1 then? And the rules aren't the same, a crew van and a couple of other sub classifications have different national speed limits.

I think the motorbike licence grades comparison is really unfair. I would take quite some convincing that a newly qualified car licence holder driving a BMW M3 would pose an equal risk as a newly-qualified A1 bike licence holder riding a high-powered bike if they were allowed – riding a big bike takes considerably more skill and training than driving a powerful car.

I passed in a Peugeot 206, but mostly learnt in a large early 90's Transit dropside. Felt it gave a far better idea of loaded braking distances, judging space, using mirrors, planning ahead and how retarded other motorists can be because they consider you a slow obstruction.
Alternatively, a friend learnt and passed in an Audi RS3.
So I don't quite get the segmentation argument.

However, driving licence is about the only qualification that work don't require me to refresh every 3-5 years (plant and forestry machinery, chainsaws, relevant first aid)

With all this discussion about new license holders and powerful cars, I need to confess something.

Wednesday I passed my test.

Friday night I picked up the Audi 100 quattro estate from my helm, connected it to a 22' keelboat and trailer (@1 ton total) and drove it from Lakes to Hartlepool. *Whistles*

So I assume you would be happy for the 3 or 4 stages of motor bike licences to be just 1 then?

No, because there was plenty of evidence that people were killing themselves when that was the case...

And the rules aren’t the same, a crew van and a couple of other sub classifications have different national speed limits.

The original examples were a Micra and a BMW X5

Built up area
Micra – 30
BMX X5 – 30

Single carriageway
Micra – 60
X5 – 60

Motorway
Micra – 70
X5 – 70

Ditto!

The main route to our road involves turning right off a busy main road on a hill. The first time my daughter tried it in my (clockwork) car, we saw the whites of the driver behind’s eyes in the rear view mirror as she expected the car to hold when she took her foot off the brake. Nothing at all from her instructor on how to use the handbrake for a hill start.

Wots a handbrake 🙂

Nothing at all from her instructor on how to use the handbrake for a hill start.

Just ride the clutch. 😀

You’ve passed your driving test as some sort of proof that you understand what those rules are and that you can operate competently within them

Someone further up posted that the licence proves you can pass the test set on that day, not that one is a competent driver. It all needs to be more like the Norwegian Driving Assessment where the learner has to demonstrate they can cope with more than just our UK type driving around town. It takes longer and is more expensive, and it reduces KSI figures to levels we can only dream of (733 average for the last 5 years) Sauce

Motorbikers were generally killing themselves, large car drivers mainly kill other people.

Does anyone get the feeling certain people here might have a large car and think their driving is above average but also think they'd not pass their test if they had to resit it?

Just ride the clutch. 😀

Daughter in question is familiar with the smell of burning clutch 😀 (They both had a go at driving the car in an open area, off the roads. Son was older & quite controlled. Daughter was bouncing the poor thing off the rev limiter while racing around in circles using the clutch to control speed until the car filled with smoke. It's never been quite the same since.)

Someone further up posted that the licence proves you can pass the test set on that day, not that one is a competent driver.

I inferred that. Even though I’d been driving bangers round a disused quarry since I was 12 & passed 1st time it didn’t mean I could drive. I could handle cars ok but road sense was a different thing.
Passing a driving test should be like an NVQ.

Someone further up posted that the licence proves you can pass the test set on that day, not that one is a competent driver.

Just like any other exam. It just means you have reached a basic level of competence.

Does anyone get the feeling certain people here might have a large car and think their driving is above average but also think they’d not pass their test if they had to resit it?

I would say my driving is above average but only because the average is so low (I see it every time I drive!)
I would probably not pass my test though if I was spot checked randomly and asked to to a test there and then. I imagine most of those average drivers would be failing too as bad habits have formed over years of driving, less continual checking of mirrors, driving with one hand etc,. and just generally not uptight enough to pass the required driving style.

Competency behind the wheel is a funny thing. From a purely perceived ability, if I get a lift from someone who pretty just commutes, it terrifies me to a certain extent.
I feel much more relaxed as a passenger if the driver drives as a part of their job as I do.
With 'commuters' I find myself constantly on edge and wondering when they are going to spot hazards.
Obviously there are exceptions both ways but it's largely the case.

Just read the Richard Littlejohn opinion piece on the DM. What a turd that man is!

I follow a YouTube channel by a driving instructor called Ashley Neal. It's all about driver education and ultimately we never stop learning and there is always room for improvement.

He's pro bikes and his latest video about the proposed changes covers cyclists in particular.

I currently drive minibuses for a local authority & can confirm that there are some people who’ve passed their test but still can’t drive.

Watched a 5T iveco LA bus nearly flatten a guy last week. He was sat in the middle of the lane in a line in static traffic, and the bus pulled up along him (straddling the white line) and then turned in on him to physically push him off his bike, all while the bike was stationary, feet on the ground.

I was staggered. I declined from going and asking the driver if he had a clue what they had done cause i had my 5 yr old with me and i dont think i could have contained how angry it made me.
Bus was full of kids as far as i could tell too.

I currently drive minibuses for a local authority & can confirm that there are some people who’ve passed their test but still can’t drive.

At my old outdoor centre, the two things that worried me most were driving a bus full of 17 kids along a singletrack road in the Highlands (etc) or food poisioning.

We used to put all staff on the 'big buses' (15 & 17 seat) through full D1 and D1+E for trailer. All staff had full internal induction and process to build up to driving locally, no matter how experienced or previous allowances. All staff had continuous assessments - they hated me or others in management 'hitching a lift' as they *knew* that I would feedback on their driving. We also asked the teachers with groups about driving.

The number of new staff who would object / comment on such a regime at first, but within a year commented how much better their driving as a professional was.

In 5 years we had two incidents - one where the canoes were not tied down properly, and once where yours truly took a minibus of staff down a gritted hilly driveway at 7am to discover black ice....ironically for them to take their minibus D1 tests...

It amazed me when I worked for another company one week who asked 'can you drive a bus?' asked for no evidence and passed me the keys and 10 kids....

What I would say is that I think truck and bus driving has improved recently - perhaps all the CPD that is now done? I still think some of the worst drivers are van drivers....

Just like any other exam. It just means you have reached a basic level of competence.

Minimum entry level 🙂

You could even use simulators to clock up drive miles before you even get to the road.

I suppose it’s all down to politics, anyone who pushed for more regular testing and levels of vehicle you can drive would never get elected as it’s almost like the American gun thing, your goddam right to drive.

At a local event there was a stall advertising Advanced driving lessons. I'm not a particularly good driver (lacking confidence), so I asked about a refresher course. The chap gave me a few tips, mainly always read the road ahead. Luckily this is something I do as a driver, cyclist and a former horse rider. The chap said that most bad drivers are 'usually' the type who think they're really good and don't need an advanced lesson.

It is shocking though that nowadays people are having driving lessons to pass their test (I've paid my money I want what I've paid for) and not to learn to drive.