We don’t know the specific nature of the US threats do we?
They aren't threats, they are backchannel explanations of cause-effect relationships.
Talk of 'tactical nukes' makes the sound small. Just read they are around the size of the ones used in ww2. So able to level an entire city. So not small at all then. If he's going to do it kyiv is surely the primary target, Russia has already shown its quite happy to inflict destruction on civilian and miltary targets
Talk of ‘tactical nukes’ makes the sound small. Just read they are around the size of the ones used in ww2. So able to level an entire city. So not small at all then. If he’s going to do it kyiv is surely the primary target, Russia has already shown its quite happy to inflict destruction on civilian and miltary targets
They vary but yields can be a lot smaller than the WW2 weapons. 1KT or less (Hiroshima was 15KT). The US has a selectable yield weapon which can go down to 0.3KT. However, even 1 Kiloton is equivalent to 1000 tons of conventional high explosive, not to mention the radiation fall out concerns, so you are right - they are not small! The crazy thing is they would only really be effective against mass concentrations of troops and armour. The Ukrainians know that and avoid such concentrations. Unless Putin really is crazy enough to use them against cities.
Backs to the wall and staring at humiliation globally he could missile some nuclear power stations
Blame it on hamsters chewing through cables, get a similar result. Big no go area amd kill a few hundred instantly and a few thousand over the next few years.
Crop growth is reduced, rare earth materials still intact, just abit clicky.
Assassination with greta thunderberg taking over is the only obvious solution
Assassination with greta thunderberg taking over is the only obvious solution
Can we have her too?
He has plenty more ways to escalate before nukes. Take out under sea communications for europe, "accidental/ it wasn't us" strikes on nuclear plants in Ukraine, take out the new gas pipe coming from Norway, "accidentally" ram satellites in orbit with Russian ones... the list goes on.
He can and will make life very nasty for europe/Ukraine before using actual nukes I reckon.
However tough it gets we can't weaken though, he'll only get even worse over the years ahead.
Oh and those countries that have taken in huge amounts of Russian men fleeing the draft now have "Russian speaking populations" that are being oppressed soon no doubt...
In that NATO tweet I'd have liked then to have added, 'and we've decided that St Petersburg and Moscow are Ukraine', just for a laugh
Back to the fear levels I had back in March/April over this now. The pessimist in me (surprise surprise) thinks that Putin just is not going to stop no matter what, and the West will buckle.
Back to the fear levels I had back in March/April over this now.
Anyone here old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis? How does it compare? My father was twenty at the time but isn't keen to be drawn on comparisons, and my mother was only four and can't remember it
In fairness almost no one knew how close the Cuban crisis got to nukes being fired. It was only later the world found out that there were Russian subs near the American blockade with nuclear tipped torpedoes. One sub came incredibly close to firing too! It's all online and is an interesting read.
As for now, America will know the second Russia mobilises its tactical nukes as they will need to be moved near to the border with Ukraine. Putin also knows they will know.
No point in worrying about it all, leave that to the very clever guys analysing Putin/ the situation in Ukraine on a minute to minute basis.
My mum has talked about the Cuban Missile Crisis a little bit. She was a student at the time I think. I think she said something like "we genuinely didn't feel certain that anyone would be alive in a week's time". I don't think we're quite at that point yet but it feels like some of the steps to that sort of point can be taken more quickly than anyone expects.
Tbf I think we've had a decent run. Tech almost peaked, more stuff at our disposal than we could wish for. You mention leaving it up to the clever people to worry about what comes next. Well if people were that clever we wouldn't be here in the first place. I used to see a mural on a wall often at home. It read: Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. It was a reference to The Troubles. We never learn.
When I was a lad we reguarly had TV adverts about the Royal Observer Corps and what they would do in the event of a nuclear attack. We also had monthly tests of the air-raid sirens. Folk just pretty much ignored it all.
You mention leaving it up to the clever people to worry about what comes next. Well if people were that clever we wouldn’t be here in the first place.
Purely being pragmatic. I can go to bed assuming I'll be living in a nuclear wasteland in a few months or not but worrying about it changes nothing and just spoils my remaining time left if the world goes tits up.😁
All that said,I genuinely dont see Putin launching nukes any time soon or ever.
Putin might not care about anyone else's life but he definitely does about his own.
When I was a lad we reguarly had TV adverts about the Royal Observer Corps and what they would do in the event of a nuclear attack. We also had monthly tests of the air-raid sirens. Folk just pretty much ignored it all.
I have no memory of this at all. Was it regional or did my parents ignore it and i was oblivious? Never heard an air raid siren in Yorkshire or Glasgow
When this all kicked off I had a massive anxiety attack and threatened to drag the family off to a remote part of Wales for a couple of weeks.
my wife said I was over reacting.
where we are will definitely be a first strike hit.
friends said is there any point in trying to survive post nukes.
I'm just glad my boys are too young to worry about this shit
why can't people just be nice to each other. we would achieve so much more
I have no memory of this at all. Was it regional or did my parents ignore it and i was oblivious? Never heard an air raid siren in Yorkshire or Glasgow
I remember these and I grew up in Leeds. My memories would be 1980 or thereafter, the siren would go off from a high rise flats in Bramley (West Leeds). Don't think it was monthly though.
where we are will definitely be a first strike hit.
I live fairly close to GCHQ and a staging depot...
I have no memory of this at all. Was it regional or did my parents ignore it and i was oblivious? Never heard an air raid siren in Yorkshire or Glasgow
Well, the Public Information ads were obviously national. I'd hear the sirens when playing in Inverleith Park. It was a fairly regular thing as they had to be tested. It's posisble that other local authorities had other schedules.
The Cold War-era national system is described here... http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/Page213.htm
Police stations had the old-fashioned hand-cranked air raid sirens as well, but I don't know if these were left over from earlier times
Anyone here old enough to remember the Cuban missile crisis? How does it compare?
I've been thinking about that a lot
Putin might not care about anyone else’s life but he definitely does about his own.
This is a very good point very succintly made
If he’s going to do it kyiv is surely the primary target,
Kyiv is the historical capital of the original Rissia. He can't destroy it
where we are will definitely be a first strike hit.
Out of interest, where are you?
For me, Menwith Hill is not far away 😬
Well, the Public Information ads were obviously national. I’d hear the sirens when playing in Inverleith Park. It was a fairly regular thing as they had to be tested. It’s posisble that other local authorities had other schedules.
Plenty of echos of that era still about - the police boxes in Edinburgh and Glasgow have what look like little lanterns or chimneys on the top - those that the 4 minute warning sirens as the boxes were already networked. Often post offices had them too - a friend who grew up in a rural post office spent their childhood constantly fighting the urge to press the big red button 🙂
My gran was a civil defence volunteer - a box of her scrapbooks and mementos came my way recently and includes the stock of tags she had for labelling corpses. I also featured the specially designed cutlery and crockery the government had stockpiled for the aftermath of a war in a design exhibition once. Only bowls and spoons - teeth and chewing presumably not part of the plan.
Before the nuclear option is deployed I would expect Putin to target an asset belonging to a NATO country.
Not far from a major naval base in a major port city next to a refinery. We are toast if it goes that way.
The volunteer groups we work with have supplies of Potassium Iodide tablets for the drivers.
One of our groups vehicles is being used for medical extractions and needs a new tyre as it has shrapnel in it.
Everything seems to be getting pretty scary.
nixie and I and a few others on this forum are all in the same location. exceptionally likely to be toast. I'm ot sure that's a good thing k
or not
DT78
Free Member
nixie and I and a few others on this forum are all in the same location. exceptionally likely to be toast. I’m ot sure that’s a good thing k
or not
I think I'd like to be around for a week or two afterwards to decide whether it's worth topping myself or not. Got enough meds to make that a painless option.
Look, it'll be fine though, Putin was crapping himself over catching covid. He's wreckless with other people's lives but ultra protective with his own.
it's my kids I am scared for, not me.
I think everyone needs to calm down, in a geo-political sense (it's getting nasty in the invaved territories) this is just a game of brinkmanship, at the highest level.
Putin has already lost his war on/invasion of Ukraine.
China would be mortified of Putin triggers the apocalypse!
They are on the verge of being the dominant world power and then their buddy blows the whole show up.😁
Before the nuclear option is deployed I would expect Putin to target an asset belonging to a NATO country.
But he knows that would elicit a NATO response.
China would be mortified of Putin triggers the apocalypse!
To be fair, I think we would all be literally mortified!
Sorry, gallows humour, lol!
But he knows that would elicit a NATO response.
I think that's the game Putin is playing. Act like a renegade and then play the victim when you get slapped down.
I think there's a phrase for that... but given the under-sea accidental gas pipe leaks...
To be fair, I think we would all be literally mortified!
Sorry, gallows humour, lol!
Lol, yeah. I'd probably put a sad face on the calendar entry for that day too.
The US are watching the Russian nuclear weapons sites, as soon as there is activity they'll instruct the NATO nuclear powers to target them and Moscow.
Source: bloke down the pub.
Upcoming Adam Curtis film on Russia – one to set your VCR for
I really must watch that. Since the start of this war I've been increasingly interested in what it must be like to be living in Russia. Not Moscow, but the more remote areas. I was in East Germany just after reunification and it was like being transported back in time. I think a visit there would be much more interesting than one to Western Europe or the US as the experiences of the people would be so much more different to ours.
Cheers DrJ, I will be watching that, assuming no buckets of instant sunshine prior to release. In which case Ill have to make do with a blown out TV and some hand puppets whilst fending off Toe Cutter with an improvised crossbow.
In the 90s, they had the accelerated and frequently catastrophic collapse of not one but two of the dominant ideologies of the 20th century. We had Britpop.
really must watch that. Since the start of this war I’ve been increasingly interested in what it must be like to be living in Russia. Not Moscow, but the more remote areas.
FWIW, SWMBO has been to Moscow a few times with work. Once away from the tourist pathways. Varying mixes of grim, dodgy, arrogant, but ultimately also a bit shit. They could only get the quality they needed for their product by relying on the expat community.
