MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
what do we recon om donnies first tweet (his 12hrs are up)... denounce pence & the gop, congratulate his base on a valiant effort. Though they may have taken his phone off him
The problem is , people like Elizabeth are become more normalised. The old joke about the US being made up of the inner states where inbreeding and insularness is alarmingly looking quite accurate !
what do we recon om donnies first tweet
He already released a statement that was a (short and very snidey) concession.
Hopefully that means one of his handlers has told him to tone it down before more people die.
@GrahamS is the tiktok woman rolling her eyes a person or one of the Team America puppets? Can't actually tell! 🤔
You do have to balance this out just a tiny bit. I am uneducated do go with the flow.
Right to protest, free speach, carry arms and all the entitlement of the American constitution
Any sort of riot, call in SWAT, National Guard to quell freedom and ypu become a commie, military dictatorship, kim jon unn, Using military forces to remove the protesters goes against this.
Add in huge numbers of covid plague carrier's who are in your face. Hold the line till an evac had taken place then let them in to shout at thin air.
The pics of the rednecks happy to wandet around as if on a day trip from Missisippi didn't show much malice or aggression on the newsfeeds.
Shooting them en masse might have backfired snd escalated things, but by christ they are thick.
Plus remember this is tiny percentage of Americans, a few hundred in a country of millions.
No wasn’t a barb at Starmer, more the tories who lined up to kiss his arse. It is however a reminder that what some may call pointless virtue signalling is actually just an exercise in being principled.
It's a bit of a stretch to be congratulating Magic Grandad on the company he's chosen to keep over the years.
I actually kind of agree that using force after it had started could have made things much worse, especially as police were massively outnumbered.
But this insurrection has been talked about for weeks on social media. A large show of force, behind the barricades, before it all kicked off, could have prevented it.
The pics of the rednecks happy to wandet around as if on a day trip from Missisippi didn’t show much malice or aggression on the newsfeeds.
They seemed pumped up and ready for a fight in the ITV piece posted earlier.
It all turned a bit....
..... after the first seditious malcontent got shot. If it were France that lost it like this, the media would be reporting on complete carnage.
But this insurrection has been talked about for weeks on social media. A large show of force, behind the barricades, before it all kicked off, could have prevented it.
Yup, if there had been riots shields etc like last night when they cleared the capitol, there may well have been violence but at least it would have been outside of the building.
Also in the US yesterday:
260,000 new Covid cases
4100 Covid deaths
Biden is in for a hell of a tough few months!
It's absolutely bonkers the number of Americans who actually believe that Trump won the election and the whole thing is a fraud, but then we've just had a vote where 52% of the population were told that the NHS would get another 350 million quid a week and we were about to see 3 million Turkish immigrants, so I guess we're not in a position to be judging
what do we recon om donnies first tweet
I don't think he will be back. He has to delete 3 tweets to be allowed back on and that means accepting he was wrong which he is incapable of doing. I think he will just use his suspension to further his sense of being wronged
He's set up a Parler account, he'll just stay on there and all the knuckle draggers will head over and form their own vile echo chamber
He’s set up a Parler account
Has he? 😲 That is very very bad news if true. Parler is a whole different level of insane.
"Plus remember this is tiny percentage of Americans, a few hundred in a country of millions."
This is not a tiny percentage of Americans.
Some real contrasts in behaviour there... some very much up for "the fight", and others helping protect/help the guards under attack (while still wanting to push through).
I stopped watching at 10pm last night - how did the Trumpists eventually get cleared from the Capitol building? I can't see anything about that in the news coverage (I haven't checked the bonkers websites mind). I assumed they would all eventually go home for their tea/medication/feed the dogs or just get bored and wander off. Did anybody get tear-gassed?
Did anybody get tear-gassed?
Yes. #prayforelizabeth
tear gas already in the background of that video above.
Also in the US yesterday:
260,000 new Covid cases
4100 Covid deathsBiden is in for a hell of a tough few months!
He is, the human cost is horrendous, but from a political point of view he's got it much easier than Johnson.
His promise of 100m Vaccines in 100 days (30% of the population) from a running start, is probably more achievable than Johnson's 2m a week (28.5 million or 43% of the population in the same time frame).
Also, whilst their figures are terrifying, it's 'only' 4x the cases and deaths of the UK with 5x the Population and no formal lock-down. They've got the sheer size of their country to thank for that, but in most states their restrictions are far easier than ours, and in some places figures are dropping. We talk about 'Waves' in the UK, Scientists often say it's just "one big wave" but from the public's perspective, this is the 2nd or 3rd one, the US given it's size is still on their first one, it's been growing steadily, almost without pause since March.
Really, and this is just from a political point of view, Biden has gotten elected at exactly the right time. He can plausibly blame Trump for just about anything for his entire term (probably with good reason), he comes to power with a working vaccine (and more coming) and full control of the Country. If he was elected 6 months ago, he would have had the toughest peacetime first 100 days in History probably, if the election was 6 months from now, he might have lost. He's going preside over a massive Vaccine roll-out and the inevitable economic rebound. He doesn't even have to worry about re-election. Nope, it's all smiles, Aviators and Corvettes for Biden.
Nope, it’s all smiles, Aviators and Corvettes for Biden.
He's been in politics for nearly 50 years and is widely considered a pretty decent guy. I don't think he's going to take any joy from the current situation.
What’s happening in america is happening here, and the solution as I’ve been saying repeatedly is to engage with the people supporting the populists, rather than dismissing them. This is a wake-up call for the UK, and we can avoid descending into the mess the US is in, but only if we abandon our own embryonic culture war.
Sounds extreme but I think that's a very valid point. Someone needs to start making the connections and use it as a warning.
That's an aim, not a method. An aim that all politicians have. How would you achieve it?
Yes. #prayforelizabeth
Do you mean #sprayforelizabeth ?
Nope, it’s all smiles, Aviators and Corvettes for Biden.
He’s been in politics for nearly 50 years and is widely considered a pretty decent guy. I don’t think he’s going to take any joy from the current situation.
I didn't want it to sound that way.
All I'm saying is that if he got into politics for the right reason, to make other peoples lives better, he's been given the best opportunity and easiest route to doing just that as possible. He'll be saving lives from Day 1.
“Plus remember this is tiny percentage of Americans, a few hundred in a country of millions.”
I wouldn't be too sure about that:
https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/01/06/US-capitol-trump-poll
I was wondering whether the "inside job/collusion" was actually a democrat/establishment masterstroke..... give 'em enough rope 'n all that... leaves trump dead in the water (not that he much headway anyway though it's probably torpedoed any trump running in 2024).
Do you mean #sprayforelizabeth ?
there's a whole subsection of the internet etc etc
I was wondering whether the “inside job/collusion” was actually a democrat/establishment masterstroke
I think that could safely be described as a "incredibly high risk strategy". Can't see it myself.
On the other hand, the orange buffoon whipping up his nazi-lite chums, that's been going on since before he got elected in 2016, right?
So out of the 380million American popolution, what percentage of that mumber took it upon themselves to
a. _demonstrate
Then
B. - force their way into the Capitol building
. 0001 % give or take a digit.
I am not disagreeing with the level of Donalds support, thats a given. But there's a big difference between supporting a political party and then becoming an active protester in a riot where people died
260,000 new Covid cases
4100 Covid deaths
Not good for the USA - but their death rate per million is still (just) lower than the UK, and not rising (quite) as fast.
I am not disagreeing with the level of Donalds support, thats a given. But there’s a big difference between supporting a political party and then becoming an active protester in a riot where people died
The non-partisan stat in the middle though is the percentage of people who believe the election was in some way 'unfair' (I'll not use the term rigged or anything else more specific - just the percentage of people who don't fully trust the process or the outcome). That number is uncomfortably high.
Don't think you can have a go at those cops for letting them through, they were throwing some proper punches right there - short of shooting them they had little other choice.
Keep in mind that apparently the Capitol police are a slightly better breed of officer compared to the rest of the countries, so aren't expected to be trigger happy.
The coppers wading in and getting their punches in made me laugh. Shit job, must be hard not to let off steam on idiots like that.
I’ve seen the full video of the *protestor being shot.
There's one on Reddit now which shows exactly how it happened. Secret Service had attempted to barricade a door a few yards before the chamber with the VP, VP-elect and everyone else still in it. It was just them between the crowd and the people they are protecting, no swat team, no police. The window in the door was smashed, she was the first in the mob attempting to get through. Secret Service guy immediately shoots her. No warning, no warning shot, but you wouldn't, and shouldn't expect one at that point.
Oh well.
Feel sorry for the amount of shit that Secret Service chap will have to go through now.
Had force not been used at some point, it might have ended up with lawmakers dead and/or taken hostage - with the whole democratic process grinding to a halt.
No sympathy or shits given for her then
Another golden moment:
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZSceRvU3/
Reporter: “What’s the purpose of storming congress?”
Trumpet (while storming Congress): “How do I know?”
😳
Also chanting “Ooo-Ess-Aay” while assaulting the heart of American democracy.
Saying nothing
Well, one cult leader should be able to recognise another.
Military vet. Would have expected her to know what she might be facing...?
Not being black (or at home in bed) might be tricky to justify...
And just for the hell of it yesterday vs BLM:
Don’t think you can have a go at those cops for letting them through, they were throwing some proper punches right there – short of shooting them they had little other choice
True enough - I'm gobsmacked they didn't at least have batons even if not in full riot gear though. Throwing punches into a crowd is just as likely to end up with you breaking your hand. It wouldn't have helped much in scheme of things but they shouldn't have been put in that situation in the first place.
We shouldn't forget that on the day of the BLM protest in Parliament Square Boris put out 10 tweets encouraging his Pretorian guard of racist football hooligans to come and protect Winston Churchill's statue, (and to have a punch up with the Police and attack a few black people)
Identical strategy to Trump and the Republicans.
The far right seem to have been live streaming their insurrection
Loads of them IDd on twitter, people still trying to claim they were antifa agitators too 🤣🤣
Wonder what the prison sentences will look like?
Doubt it, that is literally the guy's only role in his job description.Feel sorry for the amount of shit that Secret Service chap will have to go through now.
We shouldn’t forget that on the day of the BLM protest in Parliament Square Boris put out 10 tweets encouraging his Pretorian guard of racist football hooligans to come and protect Winston Churchill’s statue, (and to have a punch up with the Police and attack a few black people)
Except one of them was trying to subvert democracy while the other one was protecting a statue.
The bloke sat in Pelosi's office is called Richard Barnett apparently! Seems like a fairly fitting name
"Except one of them was trying to subvert democracy while the other one was protecting a statue."
Except that the statue didn't need protecting as it had been boarded up. His tweets suggested that the Police were incapable of defending Parliament Square and needed the back up of a thug militia.
So I take it that you thought Boris was doing the right thing? You agree with encouraging mob violence?
Except one of them was trying to subvert democracy while the other one was protecting a statue.
In their eyes they were protecting something far more important than a statue though... Viewpoint and context. If you want a statue protected get the correct agencies to do it, not post on Twitter.
The far right seem to have been live streaming their insurrection
Loads of them IDd on twitter, people still trying to claim they were antifa agitators too 🤣🤣
Wonder what the prison sentences will look like?
The USA (inc DC as far as I can tell) has this weird law called 'Felony Murder'. This basically means that if someone is killed as a direct consequence of your actions, you can be help accountable. I learnt about it when a man was found guilty of murder of a person he'd never met / seen / heard of. He didn't stop for police for a drugs stop. The police then killed someone when they jumped a red light giving chase.
I wonder whether the protesters (assuming they committed a crime, which I'm guessing they did, by crossing a police line or unlawfully entering a government building or something) can be on the hook for the murder which happened as a direct result of those actions. It'd be quite satisfying after they displayed their smug faces strolling around the Capitol.
EDIT:
1) I am not the first person to have thought about this
2) It's complicated
3) Probably not gonna happen
I agree they are both right wing populists who appealed to their audience to get on the street. However the difference in seriousness between the the two things is of such an order of magnitude that comparisons are a bit invidious. There is a problem on the internet that if you indulge in too much hyperbole that when the really bad stuff happens you run out of a vocabulary to condemn it. Don’t underestimate the significance of what just happened in Washington. I’m no fan of Johnson, but his actions are nowhere near as bad as Trump’s (so far)
Insurrection can get you a 20 year sentence in the US.
I doubt the judiciary will show any leniency; it's likely the sentences will be at the top end of the sentencing scale.
There are calls in some US media for trump, his namesake son and giuliani to be prosecuted for their blatant incitement on Wednesday; yes, do them.
The brat and giuliani - now; wait until Jan 21 and then go after trump.
It will take some time for the smell of shit to leave the WH.
Will twitter and fb ban trump from their platforms permanently the moment he is no longer president? Here's hoping.
The USA (inc DC as far as I can tell) has this weird law called ‘Felony Murder’. This basically means that if someone is killed as a direct consequence of your actions, you can be help accountable. I learnt about it when a man was found guilty of murder of a person he’d never met / seen / heard of. He didn’t stop for police for a drugs stop. The police then killed someone when they jumped a red light giving chase.
Ladies & gentlemen - I give you the land of the free.
which I’m guessing they did, by crossing a police line or unlawfully entering a government building or something
In an unintentional twist of irony....
"I have authorized the Federal Government to arrest anyone who vandalizes or destroys any monument, statue or other such Federal property in the US with up to 10 years in prison, per the Veteran’s Memorial Preservation Act, or such other laws that may be pertinent.", the president wrote on Twitter.
"This action is taken effective immediately, but may also be used retroactively for destruction or vandalism already caused. There will be no exceptions!"
The brat and giuliani – now; wait until Jan 21 and then go after trump.
Surely we'd need to wait until 21st so Trump doesn't immediately pardon Don Jr and Guiliani? He may still pardon them 'just in case' which apparently he could do.
Of course, he can't pardon anyone if the 25th is invoked...
In an unintentional twist of irony….
Ooooh, that'd be so good. Worth prosecuting using that specific bit of law even if you don't have to!
Facebook has extended the ban on trumps Facebook account indefinitely, 4 years too late im afraid, I wonder if similar bans will be forthcoming from twitter, etc.
Insurrection can get you a 20 year sentence in the US.
I doubt the judiciary will show any leniency; it’s likely the sentences will be at the top end of the sentencing scale.
That prayer for Elizabeth better be good or she will be back on TikTok in tears some more shortly.
Republican Congressman calling for the 25th to be invoked.....
https://mobile.twitter.com/RepKinzinger/status/1347207878801846276
Trump can issue group pardons even if the individuals are unknown, it's been done before in 1865 so that confederate lawyers could practice in the US.
The 25th will have to be invoked before he gets the chance to do it, it's a race against time and will depend on how much the American establishment want to punish those responsible for the assault on their democracy. If they let Trump get away with it, they might have averted a disaster for now but it would be the the final act in beginning of the erosion of American democracy. Republicans might be blind to that, even if they can see that what happened yesterday was bad.
Imnotverygood,
Democracy dies at the end of a very slippery slope. Or, as Mitch McConell so eloquently put it, "in a death spiral"
So whilst you suggest that I am making a false equivalence due to differences in order of magnitude I can still recognise the similarities with strategy and tactics. Both here and the US we've woken up every day for the last 4 years asking ourselves how much worse can it get? So called 'moderate' conservatives think they can keep a lid on it, somehow controll the madness, limit the excesses etc. When what they are actually doing is enabling.
As are you, when you suggest that Boris's tweeting isn't that serious. (Or dangerous)
Trump can issue group pardons even if the individuals are unknown, it’s been done before in 1865 so that confederate lawyers could practice in the US.
The 25th will have to be invoked before he gets the chance to do it,
"The President" issuing a pardon is only the start of the process - if the process isn't completed and "the President" changes his mind then 'the President' can reverse it. The president issuing the pardon and the one changing their mind can be two different people if the time frame is right
Andrew Johnson pardoned a prisoner towards the end of his term, the prison governor left the letter sitting on his desk for a few days, President Grant withdrew the pardon before it had been enacted.
Issuing pardons so close to the end of his term means there only needs to be one person dragging their heals down the line for the next administration to sweep them all away again.
I could do without any quotes from McConnell; he's been actively working against democracy for years; his only interest is power.
“The President” issuing a pardon is only the start of the process – if the process isn’t completed and “the President” changes his mind then ‘the President’ can reverse it. The president issuing the pardon and the one changing their mind can be two different people if the time frame is right
said Captain Jack Sparrow after drinking the rum
...sorry, just (re)watched POTC with the kids last night...
Republican Congressman calling for the 25th to be invoked…..
https://mobile.twitter.com/RepKinzinger/status/1347207878801846276/blockquote >
I've been wondering if/when Republicans would turn on him. I don't know if it's because they're trying to balance distancing themselves from a 'dumpster fire' of a President with losing his base, or more simply, because you don't make an enemy of someone like Trump until you know he's beat.
Cheers Mac! Good post.
The video of the woman getting shot is quite amazing, not because of the shooting, but because everything goes on relatively normally around it. There is a guy standing right next to her appearing to text rather that getting the **** out of there. Someone else is standing talking to the person next to them. At what point did someone getting killed next to you while a swat team are coming up the stairs get normalised 🙁
Democracy dies at the end of a very slippery slope. Or, as Mitch McConell so eloquently put it, “in a death spiral”
Don't always agree with you on issues, but yes, Boris' tweets were a low key version of Trump's, and the longer term damage that could do, if not recognised and refuted, were on show last night.
A few of us on here - myself included - have talked/joked about taking to the streets over one issue or another. It's not so funny when you consider where it might lead.
I had to laugh when I saw a picture of a guy with an actual pitchfork in his hand.
The video of the woman getting shot is quite amazing, not because of the shooting, but because everything goes on relatively normally around it. There is a guy standing right next to her appearing to text rather that getting the **** out of there. Someone else is standing talking to the person next to them. At what point did someone getting killed next to you while a swat team are coming up the stairs get normalised
It's because a lot of people don't look at the situation to decide what to do, they look at the reactions of the people around them to know what to do. If you've ever seen a stabbing or a terror event take place, be it in person or a video you might notice that depending on the situation people stand around like tools gawping and wondering what to do until one person pegs it and the rest follow.
It's why I've once had to stop people from walking towards a scene where everyone on the street could quite clearly hear a guy shouting "Alluah Ackbar", making threats and swearing. Didn't turn into anything in the end and the police cuffed the guy - but it was eye opening.
Oh good... the BBC have got Andrew Neil on to talk about how the left are just as much of a problem... lots of "get real", "what about" and "nothing to see here" about yesterday... just as I was warming to the "it's an American problem".... it really isn't, is it.
At what point did someone getting killed next to you while a swat team are coming up the stairs get normalised
Given that it's not even unusual in the US for someone to go on a mass shooting spree around a school with semi-automatic assault rifles, one person getting shot at a time, while involved in criminal activity is almost quaint and old-fashioned
Andrew Neil is a proper ...
Oh good… the BBC have got Andrew Neil on to talk about how the left are just as much of a problem… lots of “get real”, “what about” and “nothing to see here” about yesterday… just as I was warming to the “it’s an American problem”…. it really isn’t, is it.
Don't worry. He'll soon have his very own TV Channel. No need to bother with all that Social Media nonsense.
Indeed. And no doubt continue to attack journalists who dare to look into the affairs of his friends.
Andrew Neil cancelling himself.
The conservative media in the UK has disgraced itself this last year. When people objected to police brutality, they yelled "but communism" in unison.
Remember the Waterloo incident? (where a racist, ex police football thug needed to be rescued by a good Samaritan who was black) I'd like to ask Andrew Neil and his ilk wether they saw it as ironic or profound.
Although I know the answer would be that they didn't see it....at all.
Apologies to franc, who says he doesn't need to hear any quotes from Republicans but I'd like to scream at Andrew Neil what Mitt Romney at his fellow Republicans as the mob took over the chamber...."YOU DID THIS"
It’s because a lot of people don’t look at the situation to decide what to do, they look at the reactions of the people around them to know what to do
Good point. We do rely on others rather than thinking a bit too much. It's faster and easier but not always best.
Inkster, I referred to McConnell specifically - not Republicans generally; having said that, there are several whose emissions I wouldn't miss.
Cruz would be close to the top of that list.
No worries franc, just playing the ball not the man with regards McConell's comments. Same with Lindsay Graham, who comes out with the odd killer line from time to time.
As for Ted Cruz, I promise never to quote him, an easy promise to make given the odds of him ever saying anything interesting let alone truthfull are about as big as Donald's pecker.